Cantering trouble-should we take a break?

[impressive_gunner92]

@Manni01

My advice would be to reduce trotting to a minimum and only canter. And if the canter goes bad, go back to walk or trot and start over… also not what level you are but I would do Counter canter… it’s great to strengthen the canter

Thank you! We do work counter canter a bit, but not as often as we should, I’ll definitely look less at the trot!

[impressive_gunner92]

@stryder

I would do a few steps of canter, halt, reinback and canter again. As horse gets stronger, add a few steps. But don’t allow crappy canter. And eyes on the ground could tell you if you’re falling on him.

Okay, thank you! I’d love to have eyes on the ground that could tell me something useful

[impressive_gunner92]

@netg

Is he growing? That frequently makes the canter fall apart, in which case leaving it alone is smart.

Are you keeping his head down/nose in? Maybe try getting up in a light seat/two-point while thinking of how up and open baby racehorses are ridden so you can stay with him, but let him move easily.

I agree on not letting him canter along unbalanced in a lousy canter. Almost trotting while in the canter can help balance him, just a few steps then returning to the trot, balancing, and back in canter can also work well.

Lol I sure hope he isn’t growing! He’s not a youngster so that would be quite the surprise. He stays with his nose tucked most of the time even when he’s being asked to Stretch. He had some prior training that wasn’t so great. I love the idea of getting off his back a bit and letting him relax baby racehorse style. Thank you!

[impressive_gunner92]

@Myout

Get in two point and go around the arena with minimum rein (stay safe)…if he is better it’s you. If he is fine on lunge it’s you or you in the saddle, so possibly saddle. If he is awful on lunge both with and without saddle, probably worth a vet visit.

I havent tried two point yet, but he looks better on the lunge (with and without the saddle) than I think he would feel while I’m riding. (Which means it’s me, eek!) Sadly I don’t have anyone to video or tell me what the difference is. There’s no difference with or without the saddle, but my saddle fitter is coming soon to reflock anyways just Incase. Thank you!

[impressive_gunner92]

@enjoytheride

First, can he canter on the lunge line?

Second, can someone else canter him fine?

Third, try a different saddle. When both of the first two checked out I switched saddles. I had one saddle that was too wide and would rock on my mare causing mare drama. I had another that had to wide of a twist so I sloshed around causing mare drama. The right saddle for both of us and it got so much easier.

Yes he can! And I haven’t had anyone on him in forever, but I can see if a friend wants to hop on. My saddle fitter is coming out soon (hopefully in two weeks if I hear back from her) to get my saddle reflocked. I’ll definitely ask to try some of her saddles and see if it makes a difference, thank you!

[impressive_gunner92]

@MsM

When I got my horse he was not cantering under saddle - at six years old! He had been cantered but the trainer I got him from felt he was not balanced enough and had worked on his walk and trot. When I first cantered him under saddle I did find balance issues that lead to rushing and leaning. (It didnt help that he didnt seem to know any know aids to canter but just ran into it) He also got quite anxious and strong. To address that, we did a lot of canter work on the longe. He learned his voice commands and before long became better balanced. After a while I sometimes used side reins, but I mostly let him balance himself and learn to relax.
When I resumed cantering under saddle I stayed on a 20m circle for quite a while. He was better balanced and less anxious. Doing trot-canter-trot-canter transitions tended to work him up, so at first we did canter, trot walk, reward. Repeat once calm.
He developed quite a nice balanced canter. And then went lame… (But that is another story)

That sounds a lot like my boy. Strong, heavy, and a little bit anxious (when he’s confused he gets toddler brain). I’ll definitely do more longe work, thank you!

[impressive_gunner92]

@EventerAJ

Most canter issues, not soundness related, are caused by lack of strength or straightness. Work on straightness at trot, perfecting shoulder in and prompt response to outside rein and lateral aids. Build strength with lots of transitions between gaits, maintaining straightness. At canter, don’t worry where his head is; focus on his shoulders, slight s-in position. Work on square turns, to a walk transition. Counter canter will also help with straightness. Work in short bursts, get 3 good strides and release, or down transition to reward his effort.

I’ll definitely work on straightness, Thank you so much!

[impressive_gunner92]

@alibi_18

Did something happened prior this past month?

How does he look when you lunge him? Look carefully, it might be some lameness. The canter asks for 1 limb support in two of its phases.

What were your go to exercices?
Why was he getting strong?

Training means that things should improved. If you’ve been correcting the same issue for some time with the same exercices and still ended up regularly with the same issues, you might have just desensitize your horse.

Corrections should fade away and only become some little reminders here and there. Exercices should improve suppleness, straightness and lightness.
They are meant to muscle up the horses too.

Frustration, as normal as it can be, has no place in a riding session. You should never be frustrated at your horse. It only does whatever you are asking. If it’s not clear, the reaction will be as unclear.

If it’s not a pain reaction, I’m not sure I would stop cantering but only doing short burst here and there when you walk and trot are « perfect ». Concentrating on good transitions and a few steps of quality canter.

Lessons are in order.

Nothing that I know of has changed in the last month, and he was recently looked at by a lameness specialist (long story on that one, he wasn’t at the hospital for lameness but the vet needed a willing demo!) so I don’t think he’s sore. I’m going to have the chiro out as soon as possible to make sure nothing is uncomfortable.

I have have a couple go to exercises that I do at all gaits that work on suppleness and bend. Along with those I’ve been working a lot on square corners and shoulder in (shoulder in only at the walk). When I first got him he has become dull to leg pressure, so lots of leg yielding and just maneuvering with my leg.

The frustration piece definitely isnt isn’t fair to him, I internalize it and I’ve never taken it out on him, but still, not good! I know it’s something I need to work on

thank you so much!

[impressive_gunner92]

@Tyrus' Mom

My 6 y.o. is weak cantering, even taking separate leads front and back from time to time. I started lunging him every day for a short time, including several trot-canter-trot transitions. He is figuring out where his feet are and the lunge practice helped him tremendously. I have been slowly increasing my under saddle cantering asks. It is going well. His breeds (Friesian/Percheron) are not horses who do much cantering, so it is a gradual process for us… until I had a recent lesson and found I could ask for quite a bit more. Of course he showed my trainer his best canters! Not one with separate leads… I was hoping he had moved past that stage, but of course then the next day he showed me he hadn’t. It is my opinion that consistent work and repetition on the problem will eventually fix it if there are no other underlying issues for you, OP.

Be careful because frustration can cause accidents and the possibility of resulting bad habits. My guy started bolting with me at one point, so I had to slow down that part of his training under saddle for a time.

Thank you! Lunging is in order! The frustration is something I’ve never taken out on him, and it’s only after a terrible ride where it feels like he’s forgotten everything we’ve ever worked on, but It is something I know I need to work on. It’s not fair to him, he’s trying for me!

[impressive_gunner92]

@J-Lu

You have some good advice. Given that your horse has no health issues…

i’ll add: does your horse know how to leg yield? Leg yielding out at the canter will fix the falling in. Even if he doesn’t actually leg yield (cross over), he’ll straighten out. He leans in because it’s easy and, I think, you might let him. Your inside leg and thigh can straighten that.

Is he strong enough and are you backing him off of the canter? I used to do clinics with a German woman who was very into FORWARD to straighten the canter and build strength at it. As in, half seat and make your horse go FORWARD down the long sides, come back to handle the corners and short sides (not collection). She shaped the horse’s frame around this forward way of going to build strength over the back. It really worked, I’ve not worked with an American trainer who used this approach.

I recommend having a good rider/trainer ride your horse and canter him, and recommend steps you can take to build strength if everything is OK. Do you have hills where you are? Walking or trotting up them are great. Cavalletti or raised poles, or even poles on the ground will help build strength.

Have someone video you so you can see how you are riding your horse. Backed off? Above the bit? Round over the back? On the forehand?

Lastly, try schooling a small hunter/jumper course in a hunter frame. Get in half-seat, even if you only have a dressage saddle. Give him his head to look up and canter around. Put little (little) jumps in the arena/raised poles/poles on the ground and just canter them. Space some in a canter pole exercise. Once your horse figures out that he has to canter the poles you point him at and you aren’t trying to put him in a frame, does his canter improve?

Canter poles and canter or trot cavalletti will help strengthen any horse.

Having not seen you ride or your horse go, I’m throwing out ideas that may or may not apply!

Thank you! These are some really great ideas. He legs yields pretty nicely at the trot, but I’ve never given it a go at the canter, but I will now! I love the idea of pushing him forward in half seat, I think that I may over ride and that causes lots of issues.

I havent found a trainer that will come to my barn (that I like) in a long time, but I’m still searching. I have a friend that I could have try him out! I have some small hills around me, Michigan isn’t the hilliest place. We work a lot of poles to strengthen his top line.

I haven’t gotten a video in a bit, but he usually is very round through his back at the trot, and on the forehand at the canter. (With his nose tucked - even on a long rein- in due to old owners incorrect “collection”)

During his young career he was an eventer and he fox hunted, so he loves to jump!! I’m not sure he’ll canter a raised pole, jumping them is too much fun, but his canter tends to improve even if it’s just a little crossrail course

[impressive_gunner92]

@Scandias

I could write a book on cantering trouble…

My mare will become unbalanced when:

1. her hocks are sore and due for injections

2. when she canters barefoot in bad footing

3. when the saddle doesn’t fit

4. rider error: gripping with legs, sitting too deep

5. when she has trouble shedding a follicle

6. when her SI is misaligned due to compensating for problems 1 through 5

The rider error one sounds far too familiar. I took off my stirrups today and my legs were looser (I was just kinda having fun and not putting tons of effort into anything more than enjoying myself) and his canter felt a lot better. Are there any exercises I can do to stop gripping?

[CanteringCarrot]

I know if I’m tight anywhere, my horse is also and doesn’t give me his best work. He’s very sensitive to his rider, and I quite like that. He calls me out on my crap riding. :winkgrin:

That being said, mine did go through a bulldozer phase. He’d be heavy (well, heavy for him) in the bridle and want to motorcycle around turns. We had just started getting some nice proper canter work and collection, so it was odd. There was nothing physically wrong. I think he was just saying I rather do this because it’s easy, so unless you make me travel like a proper dressage animal, I’m dozing. Also a sign that I probably wasn’t riding correctly and needed a tune up myself.

All it took was two rides of quick transitions and lateral work to loosen him up, and get back to using his hind end. We did walk, halt, trot, canter and transitions within the gaits in various order. I also really drove him forward for some of them. He can be an anxious creature so the down transitions to halt, relax, then move, seemed to help him. He will anticipate and wants to be one step ahead, so I just have to be calm and remind him to slow his brain down. I take breaks here and there to get a good stretchy walk or trot in.

[Scandias]

@impressive_gunner92

The rider error one sounds far too familiar. I took off my stirrups today and my legs were looser (I was just kinda having fun and not putting tons of effort into anything more than enjoying myself) and his canter felt a lot better. Are there any exercises I can do to stop gripping?

There are several exercises but the one that helps me the most is the flipper. You take your feet out of the stirrups and lift your legs away from the saddle from the hip not the knee, hold for a few seconds and then relax for a few strides and repeat. Another good one is peddling like pretending you are riding a bike. And bringing your leg back from the hip, hold for a few strides and repeat. When you pick your stirrups back up they should suddenly feel a lot shorter.

Here’s the thing though: if your horse is hurting somewhere he will likely still offer a rough canter which will make it more difficult to sit. If you are not sure whether it’s you or your horse, you might have someone else canter him and give you feedback on what they are seeing/feeling.

If a pro finds it unusually difficult, have a saddle fitter and vet out to make sure the horse is comfortable enough to canter.

Meanwhile work on improving your own skills on a reliable school master and consider signing up for Pilates and get yourself checked out by a chiropractor or other body worker in case you are locked up somewhere in your body.

[impressive_gunner92]

@CanteringCarrot

I know if I’m tight anywhere, my horse is also and doesn’t give me his best work. He’s very sensitive to his rider, and I quite like that. He calls me out on my crap riding. :winkgrin:

That being said, mine did go through a bulldozer phase. He’d be heavy (well, heavy for him) in the bridle and want to motorcycle around turns. We had just started getting some nice proper canter work and collection, so it was odd. There was nothing physically wrong. I think he was just saying I rather do this because it’s easy, so unless you make me travel like a proper dressage animal, I’m dozing. Also a sign that I probably wasn’t riding correctly and needed a tune up myself.

All it took was two rides of quick transitions and lateral work to loosen him up, and get back to using his hind end. We did walk, halt, trot, canter and transitions within the gaits in various order. I also really drove him forward for some of them. He can be an anxious creature so the down transitions to halt, relax, then move, seemed to help him. He will anticipate and wants to be one step ahead, so I just have to be calm and remind him to slow his brain down. I take breaks here and there to get a good stretchy walk or trot in.

Wow that sounds eerily similar to my boy, he is sensitive and he’s older, so he’s learned every method of cheating possible. I love all those ideas and will definitely try them tonight, thank you!

[impressive_gunner92]

@Scandias

There are several exercises but the one that helps me the most is the flipper. You take your feet out of the stirrups and lift your legs away from the saddle from the hip not the knee, hold for a few seconds and then relax for a few strides and repeat. Another good one is peddling like pretending you are riding a bike. And bringing your leg back from the hip, hold for a few strides and repeat. When you pick your stirrups back up they should suddenly feel a lot shorter.

Here’s the thing though: if your horse is hurting somewhere he will likely still offer a rough canter which will make it more difficult to sit. If you are not sure whether it’s you or your horse, you might have someone else canter him and give you feedback on what they are seeing/feeling.

If a pro finds it unusually difficult, have a saddle fitter and vet out to make sure the horse is comfortable enough to canter.

Meanwhile work on improving your own skills on a reliable school master and consider signing up for Pilates and get yourself checked out by a chiropractor or other body worker in case you are locked up somewhere in your body.

Those exercises for me sound great, I tend to lock up through my hips as well. I’ve also been at the gym lifting 5 days a week instead of the usual 2, and I wonder if that’s affecting my riding at all.

I have a friend who rides at a much much higher level than I do who rode him not too long ago. She had little to no issue getting him to go correctly, but she hasn’t ridden him in two weeks or so. She only rides him when her field is too wet to work her boys. I can call her tonight and see when she’s available.

Last time she rode him she just said he had a bad habit of trying to fall in, but it seemed to her like he was just trying not to put any effort in because it’s easier.

Another boarder is having the vet out for her horse soon (tomorrow if I remember correctly) and I can have him take a look at my boy just to double check.

Would it he worth it for me to go bareback for a bit Incase it’s saddle related? He and I do bareback work a lot so it wouldn’t be a major change.

[Tyrus_Mom]

@impressive_gunner92

Thank you! Lunging is in order! The frustration is something I’ve never taken out on him, and it’s only after a terrible ride where it feels like he’s forgotten everything we’ve ever worked on, but It is something I know I need to work on. It’s not fair to him, he’s trying for me!

Actually the frustration I was describing was my horse’s… he hated cantering, and I tried to get him to canter under saddle more than I should have. I should have been lunging him and getting him used to the gait when he was not carrying a rider. His frustration with being asked to canter more than he thought he should ended in his meltdown into bolting. When I took a step back and started lunging him and using that trot - canter - trot exercise he gradually got better and more accepting of being asked to canter under saddle. At first I would only ask for a canter for 1/4 of the arena, once in each direction, then increased to half the arena, now I ask up to three or four times per side for varying lengths of the arena. (It was really unfortunate that it came to this, because the bolting migrated to the trail which can get very dangerous and I had to switch bits to a stronger one because of my unease on the trail. We have a lot of bicyclists in the area who stop for no man or beast and my horse gets shaken up when some of them go by him. You know, there are a lot of nice ones too, but I do believe my horse senses the negativity from the ones who don’t respect our space.) We always take a nice short trail ride after training. I’m lucky, he has a good attitude for the ring work in general, but trail is a nice place to cool him off and just relax.

I put a lid on my own frustration – you can only do what you can do and I’m not a fabulous rider (I wish I was, I am trying!) – and the boy figures out a lot, but not everything or not immediately, and repetition is so important, so I don’t try to set specific goals under timelines… everything will take whatever time it takes… but I do blame myself for not taking the cantering slower with him to begin with. Just this morning though he had a great lunging session where he didn’t take the wrong leads or do alternate leads and under saddle he did several nice trot - canter - trot transitions too. Progress is slow, but it’s steady.