Careless Show Jumping

[hairystockings]

@Willesdon

I know someone who had two Shires. If they thought it was time for their dinner they would just lean on the heavy five bar gate and knock it flat. In other words, why jump when going through the fence is so much more efficient? I suspect your horse isn’t interested in jumping so perhaps give him a new job.

My retired draft pony is the reason why every dry lot she graces has double locking mechanisms on all the gates and has to check their fencing regularly. She just uses her ample backside to test for structural integrity problems and then lets herself out to the grass.

[WildLittleWren]

It sounds like he may need a new job. It sounds like you have tried a variety of different changes to try and help matters. Perhaps he would be happier as a dressage horse? And maybe hunt for fun? Some horses just do.not.care if they plow through a fence, or knock a rail. I think he is trying to tell you he would like a different career at this point perhaps. Good luck OP.

[kiwichick]

@hairystockings

Some horses just don’t care, unfortunately. We have a perch x school horse at the barn I’m at now, she’s the same way. Usually she’s pretty careful but if she’s tired or the distance isn’t great, meh she’ll just punch the rail out. We don’t usually let her jump the fancy gates because she may break them lol.

This is my horse exactly. Like I know he understands that’s the point (to a horses level of understanding) but if it required a bit more effort clear it just punching the rail out is easier.

Horses loves jumping and can get very keen, and I no longer jump solid xc fences as I cant control or rely on the horse to not just think they can run through it

[kiwichick]

@punchy

Didn’t matter if it was a single rail or a solid coop: the only thing reliable about him was his unreliability.

I stopped trying to jump him. If i was out and he felt a certain way, keyed up and focused and really on, I would jump, but I couldn’t plan it. Keyed up and distracted was not the same thing; he really had to be in this particular mood/moment. I was a lot younger then, but I still recognized that I was risking both our necks, and it just wasn’t worth it.

This is the other one that resonates, inconsistent, plus the being keyed up.
there are days where he shows amazing talent, keen, sitting and pushing off the ground nicely. Then there are days you get the same feel but distracted, runs through, or drags the hind end through because was looking at a flower or a fly or something. Then there are the days where horse just won’t get off your leg and be truly forward and good luck getting around anything.

[iJump]

What’s he eating?

[kiwichick]

@iJump

What’s he eating?

Nothing that should be weighing his legs down!!

Beet pulp, alfalfa, hay and a premix pellet, along with various supplements, all balanced through feedxl

[ParadoxFarm]

@kiwichick

Horse in general, completely unconcerned by bringing the rails down.

Sometimes that alone is the problem. Some horses just do not care. Maybe he needs a career change, even if temporary and maybe you can start fresh later. But I have found that some horses just never get over this.

(ETA…sorry, seems I now realize I’m just repeating some other posters.)

[AnastasiaBeaverhousen]

Not to scare you or anything, but maybe you should explore the possibility that he has PSSM .

Draft and draft crosses are prone to it , and if he is tieing up that could explain why he jumps so well some days and then is so unmotivated on others.

You might try some research on the best diet for horses that have PSSM and see if you need to make any changes . Or discuss with your vet , as the vet can tell you what symptoms to watch for.

And you need the vet to diagnose if he has PSSM 1 or PSSM 2.

On the other hand , it may simply be a case of
Square Peg, Round Hole.

Good luck

[fordtraktor]

I absolutely would not hunt or do XC on a horse that crashed through jumps! Yikes.

sounds like he wants to be a dressage horse.

[enjoytheride]

I’ve seen this quite often. It can be disappointing when you in the lead by a mile after dressage, the horse is a beast xc, and if he doesn’t have 12 faults show jumping it’s a good day.

What I have seen is these horses sold to lower level packer homes. If it can pack grandma around BN xc with a rail down in stadium does that matter as long as he’s safe and idiot proof?

[findeight]

Upthread OP mentioned a somewhat light backend? Maybe his hip and shoulder angles just don’t allow him to bring his knees up and power up off his hocks and lift to clear behind? Find that often in horses bred to do something else, like QHs, drafts and crosses. Their bodies just are built for a different use.

Its not that they don’t care its that they just aren’t very good at it and if you add a placid, work all day temperament to that, they aren’t bothered by clunking a rail. Just not the agile, sensitive type with the right hip and shoulder angles for a crisp, clean jump.

Really sounds like a good hearted soul who is trying to please you doing a job he’s just not suited for. Try finding him a different spot he can excel in. Best for him and no shame or failure on your part to recognize he needs a different job.

[ACMEeventing]

It seems like you already know your answer, but maybe need some support.

Jumping a horse that doesn’t care about the rails isn’t just frustrating and costly, it becomes unsafe. There will come a day when one of those ‘clinically clumsy’ rails will get tangled between his legs and down you both go.

It’s really, really frustrating and I’m so sorry. Enjoy him outside the stadium arena and give yourself permission to move on from that. When you get on one that is allergic to wood you will be glad you did.

Best to you

[supershorty628]

@ACMEeventing

It seems like you already know your answer, but maybe need some support.

Jumping a horse that doesn’t care about the rails isn’t just frustrating and costly, it becomes unsafe. There will come a day when one of those ‘clinically clumsy’ rails will get tangled between his legs and down you both go.

It’s really, really frustrating and I’m so sorry. Enjoy him outside the stadium arena and give yourself permission to move on from that. When you get on one that is allergic to wood you will be glad you did.

Best to you

Yeah, this. Not saying this to scare you, OP, but my mom (a very experienced professional) insisted on jumping one like this and trying to fix him, and eventually this happened and they both went down, breaking her collarbone BADLY. She was out of commission for like 6 or 7 months. It’s not worth it.

[iJump]

@kiwichick

Nothing that should be weighing his legs down!!

Beet pulp, alfalfa, hay and a premix pellet, along with various supplements, all balanced through feedxl

Haha, no but maybe he just doesn’t have the energy or stamina for all the jump efforts being asked of him?

Also, I thought the horse wasn’t a Clydesdale and is actually a WB?

[alibi_18]

@kiwichick

This is the other one that resonates, inconsistent, plus the being keyed up.
there are days where he shows amazing talent, keen, sitting and pushing off the ground nicely. Then there are days you get the same feel but distracted, runs through, or drags the hind end through because was looking at a flower or a fly or something. Then there are the days where horse just won’t get off your leg and be truly forward and good luck getting around anything.

This sounds a lot like untreated/undiagnosed PSSM… They have bouts of azoturia.

Beet pulp, alfalfa, hay and a premix pellet, along with various supplements, all balanced through feedxl

Anything with sugar might trigger the PSSM.
I have had to cut everything from what I thought was excellent for my mare’s health…

@iJump

Also, I thought the horse wasn’t a Clydesdale and is actually a WB?

My mare is a Hanoverian from older lines…

[kiwichick]

@findeight

Upthread OP mentioned a somewhat light backend? Maybe his hip and shoulder angles just don’t allow him to bring his knees up and power up off his hocks and lift to clear behind? Find that often in horses bred to do something else, like QHs, drafts and crosses. Their bodies just are built for a different use.

Its not that they don’t care its that they just aren’t very good at it and if you add a placid, work all day temperament to that, they aren’t bothered by clunking a rail. Just not the agile, sensitive type with the right hip and shoulder angles for a crisp, clean jump.

Really sounds like a good hearted soul who is trying to please you doing a job he’s just not suited for. Try finding him a different spot he can excel in. Best for him and no shame or failure on your part to recognize he needs a different job.

He’s built to jump and loves it, and its not like we crash through every jump, its that for me to continue down the path of a competitive show jumper with all the sacrifices that go with that, I know that current trajectory is we will always lose by, 4,8,16 faults.
Some days in training we dont take any rails, but thats rare. Comps we do too.

Im ok with him not being a jumper competitively, ill just stop aiming for that and aim him at dressage and keep jumping for fun - because then instead of getting upset at rails down on a perfect spot, ill just allow 15 mins extra on jump days to pick the jumps all up, and then I can stay at a height where a mistake wont cost us a fall, rather than pushing up

However if there was a way to fix it, id sure be open to that too, but I feared as not.

[kiwichick]

@alibi_18

This sounds a lot like untreated/undiagnosed PSSM… They have bouts of azoturia.

Anything with sugar might trigger the PSSM.
I have had to cut everything from what I thought was excellent for my mare’s health…

@iJump

My mare is a Hanoverian from older lines…

We dont have PSSM down here, or any of the EM/PM type things

Horse is not a draft, but a carriage pulling breed, so same/same. In fact ive seen a number of super careful successful clyde mixes, but none of my type out show jumping

[kiwichick]

And thanks everyone for taking the time to write. It is sad and frustrating, as if I had a wish genie and could only pick a dressage or jumper out of this horse, id slap that jumper button in a nano-second.
However the horse is athletic and talented and enjoys dressage aswell, so I will quit lining myself up for failure ahead and work on that.

I also no longer jump xc in a competition setting with this horse as it is scary as all heck. Just wish I could afford a second horse

[Willesdon]

Swap with someone who has a dressage horse that prefers jumping?

[alibi_18]

@kiwichick

We dont have PSSM down here, or any of the EM/PM type things

? PSSP is not a disease carried by mosquitos or something… and it’s not systemic to a region, it’s everywhere in the world.

Horse is not a draft, but a carriage pulling breed, so same/same. In fact ive seen a number of super careful successful clyde mixes, but none of my type out show jumping

My mare is a Hanoverian, breed doesn’t matter but it’s more prevalent in drafts - It can be quite mild, localised myopathy* or very serious.

You should really read about this because what you describe is quite textbook to mild symptoms of PSSM 2.

*It’s often not as dramatic as what is being presented as signs in the links - my mare would have small « patches » of sweats that wouldn’t dry (small parts of big muscles tying up!) - she was a tad reluctant to move, had grumpy/bitchy days, would suddenly refuse jumps…

Wiki link : https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equi…orage_myopathy

CVM link :
https://cvm.msu.edu/research/faculty-research/comparative-medical-genetics/valberg-laboratory/type-2-polysaccharide-storage-myopathy#6.-what-are-the-signs-of-pssm2-in-horses?