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Cat Gang - crystal prevention

The Menagerie
#21

The vet needs to identify the type of crystal, because that will decide the course of treatment. There are 2 types of crystals: struvite and calcium oxalate. Struvite crystals form in alkaline urine (pH 7 or greater), so acidifying the urine (lowering the pH) helps dissolve the crystals and keep new ones from forming. If your cat’s pH is alkaline (7 or greater) then definitely try Methigel. It won’t hurt, and it might help. You’ve got nothing to lose from trying.

Struvite crystals are not precisely stones, but if they aggregate together they form stones.

Unlike struvite crystals, calcium oxalate crystals can be triggered by drinking water high in calcium.

Stress can definitely cause this, so try to think like a cat and look for anything that could be stressing her. Does she have access to outdoors, at least on a screened porch? Are you sure there’s no aggression from other cats?

1 Like
#22

@beowulf I can see you edited your OP, and I could have SWORN something in your OP or the title said the crystals were struvite. I’m pretty sure I checked things a few times because some comments seemed to be ignoring struvite having been mentioned, but now I’m questioning myself!

#23

I did edit it, you’re not crazy. Originally, I thought it was struvite stones/crystals because that was the first google result I got when I googled crystals in urine before making this topic. I realized that the vet never clarified which, so I removed i from my OP.

I’ve sent an email to my vet asking for clarification. I know calling would be quicker, but I actually want this in writing - I also asked for a summary report of some sort.

I really appreciate everyone’s insight and advice.

#24

whew! So, that’s where all my comments were coming from, and yes things do change if it’s oxalate. I’m glad you’re trying to get things in writing, since it seems like they’re kinda not really on top of this :frowning:

1 Like
#25

@beowulf

I will echo everything that most posters have already covered. Get all of your kitties on wet food, pronto. It doesn’t have to be a prescription wet (those are available, though), just find a good quality, grain-free, high protein canned food. Honestly even a cheap canned food is still better than any expensive dry. Really. Truly.

As far as vets not mentioning this, I had to change vets and called around to 3 different clinics before finding one who would work with me and support me if i fed a raw+wet combo diet. My present vet is AMAZING and constantly keeps up to date with the latest nutrition research and stats on diseases, recalls, etc.

catinfo.org —> seriously… an incredible read. Worth your time.

Another thing that’s anecdotally proven to help is D-Mannose powder added to the food (the active ingredient in cranberries that helps break up calcium deposits). You can order that through any health product website, and it’s not expensive.

Also, adding some water to the wet food can’t hurt either, especially for your one kitty who has the urinary issues. Tuna juice, broth, etc… all helpful.

Just no more kibble. None. Nada. Zip. :wink:

2 Likes
#26

just be careful, as “grain free” often means added vegetables which increases the carbohydrate content. Cat’s are obligate carnivores, only “digesting” vegetables that their prey already at least partially digested

Yep! Fancy Feast Classics varieties are actually not all that bad. Classics. Not any of the others. But I still found many other good brands that you can buy in 12/13oz sizes to more economical on a per-ounce basis, especially if you’re feeding 7 which we were at the time. But yes, even medocre canned is better than high quality kibble.

We use high quality kibble (which is $$$ if using as food) as treats, as it’s way cheaper than using actual bagged/canister treats. We can toss 4-6 little pieces of kibble for a “scatter treat” for more engagement and less $ than 1-2 formal treats

2 Likes
#27

Re: the grain-free thing -

My understanding is that mostly applies to dry food, the replacement of grains with other vegetables/binding agents. It’s not as much of an issue with canned. And rule of thumb - the further down on the list of ingredients those “filler” ingredients are, the less of an issue they are.
My brand of choice, for example, is Performatrin - the only thing you’ll find that falls in the filler category (ish) is “dried kelp”, which isn’t so bad… and it’s like ingredient n.6 or 7. Other than that, further down there are a few spices (oregano, etc), but the main ingredients are meat and broth. That’s the main thing.

Performatrin also makes an “Extra” variety, which is more $$, and contains fillers like blueberries and peas and stuff… they tried to sell that to me at first, like it was a “bonus” and i looked at the store clerk and said “exactly why do my little obligate carnivores need blueberries and peas in their diet?”. She just stared at me, open-mouthed… :joy:

Moral of the story - check the ingredients! And… no kibble. None. Nada. Zilch.

:grin:

#28

Yes, you’re right! Order matters :slight_smile: And for sure, any canned, grain-free or not, is better than any kibble, purely from a moisture perspective. That said, if you’re choosing between 2 apparently similar products, grain-free wouldn’t be my first choice. But many of those are better than many other canned foods

And yep, those 2 varieties of Performatrin are exactly what I mean :slight_smile:

#29

Still waiting on the summary report, but I did just hear back from the vet that it was struvite crystals detected in urine. :+1:

So – Methigel. Can I feed this in conjunction with the Purina UR St/ox? Or do I wait until the Purina is gone?

I see that Chewy has it but it is out of stock. I’ve added it to my next autoship, but will probably see if I can buy this online elsewhere to have on hand now.

Current plan is to feed the Purina UR st/ox until it runs out since I already paid for it, and then transition to making the cat food myself. I have one kitty that cannot go off of her Rx food - any time we’ve tried it, she regresses - but here’s to feeding the other four cats from home. :joy:

I’m a bit overwhelmed by the info on the catinfo.org site. It doesn’t look horribly complicated, bonus, and I can easily get almost all of the ingredients at my local store.

How much freezer space do I need to dedicate to this? Any tips for freezing into serving sizes? I’m thinking for four cats, I’m going to be cooking a lot. I do have a ton of mason jars… :thinking:

#30

I don’t know as I never used the food BUT, if that food has extra methionine to help dissolve, I don’t know that I’d add more.

It’s a TON of info for sure. I read a bit, then went right to the recipe page and started making, then gradually read more of the website. I have a spreadsheet which tells me how much of all the things to add based on how many pounds of bone-in chicken thighs I start with, and am happy to share that with you

You don’t need to cook a lot :slight_smile:

My last batch was 23lb of thighs, and took up, I think, 20 4-cup containers, but I only put about 3c in to leave room for expansion. They’re these containers

They all go in the freezer, and I take one out as soon as I start using one, so that it has time to thaw. 1 container has about 16 meals for the cats we have, who range from 8/9lb to 12lb, depending on exactly how much you put in. So, currently, for the 3 cats who eat this (CKD kitty cannot have this other than to lick a bowl) those 20 containers will last around 106 days.

Those Rubbermaid containers stack and take up a lot less room than round things, if that helps the decision about the mason jars.

1 Like
#31

Do chat with your vet if you’re interested in considering going raw. My vets are very consistently very against, due to the numerous issues they see in raw fed animals.

#32

there are so many bad ways to do raw, and that’s what gets people and cats into trouble. I’ve fed up to 7 cats on this vet-designed raw diet for years. The ones who were on it the longest have lived into their teens. The oldest just left this earth a few weeks ago, a few months shy of her 20th birthday. Next is the 19yo who yes, has CKD, and it’s currently estimated that around 80% of cats over 15yo will have that issue, and in his case, he’s never had a kibble diet in the 18 years he’s been with us.

Not all raw is created equal. Lots of dog owners do it wrong as well

Don’t blame the category of feeding on the fact that it’s often done incorrectly.

1 Like
#33

Which is why I suggested that beowulf chat with her vet about it. I’m not “blaming” anything or anyone.

1 Like
#34

FWIW, I gave up on the 100% raw diet, it was too stressful and complicated. Now I just feed a good quality grain-free canned diet and supplement with a small amount of raw meat/bones/organs and feeder mice (yes, the ones marketed for reptiles - my cats LOVE THEM!!!). This has worked extremely well for me since 2009. I said goodbye to my last 2 cats in 2020 and 2021 at the ages of 20 yrs and 18 yrs respectively, and we now have two super healthy, lean, thriving young adult cats doing wonderfully on this diet.

Now whenever i see pics of fat, aloof housecats i get so discouraged… it’s not normal, it’s not funny, or cute… cats should be lean, sleek, bright-eyed and active. Nature’s perfect hunters. Rawr… :stuck_out_tongue:

3 Likes
#35

I’m only pointing out that many vets are against this because they see people doing it wrong all the time.

1 Like
#36

That’s fantastic! I’d have never thought to get feeder mice. And you’re right, pets of ALL species are way too often over-fed, and it’s so sad :frowning:

2 Likes
#37

And so they are best poised to point out the many pitfalls.

#38

That’s why I went with the nutrient completer, so it’s just some variety of meat + powder/liquids/egg. There’s a few brands available, I just stuck to the one she recommended. I use a cookie dough scooper onto a baking sheet and freeze those until they hold their shape, then collect all the frozen pucks into a freezer safe storage bag and portion out like 20 at a time to thaw.

1 Like
#39

brilliant! I just don’t have enough cookie sheets or, even if i did, enough freezer space to get it all frozen

#40

I go in batches and freeze on two sheets at a time then move the the bag and restart, so it takes a minute. :joy: But they’re a consistent weight and I can control how much they’re eating easily, which is nice.

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