Catherine Haddad's latest editorial

I haven’t read anything like this - ever. But we should be careful not to stray away from the original post and let it disintegrate into personal attacks. The positions of some posters are becoming evident, and I have to say I see a bit on both sides.

Re the references to GM and Winyamaro, I remember seeing a picture of GM riding Winyamaro and this shows justhow remarkable that aged gentleman is - to be able to just get on a GP mount and get movement out of the horse
when his own discipline is hunter/jumpers.

As I dwell on this thread, it maybe worth saying that a blog is different from an article. A good writer takes a balanced view, a blog is personal and the writer is centre stage.

Further back Eleanor Rooseveldt was quoted as saying that no one can make you feel inferior without your consent. I so disagree with this - when I went to take lessons I was very earnest and put downs made me have even a worse opinion of my riding than I already had. I pulled my kid out of a clinic once because the instructor made her cry. I saw no benefit to her when she was supposed to be having fun. She went on to become a top international athlete and exposed to the top elite coaches, so we know what is what. A good coach makes a student feel on top of the world and able to take on all commers.

Also, ask school kids who are bullied, some of whom commit suicide - nah, Eleanor R was dead wrong.

Oh, finally, my inlaws are German - they are blunt, so is my son-in-law!
Takes some getting used to culturally.

Um, what is your point?:lol:

Lots of good points, Foxtrot. And let’s give CHS some credit for having trained Winyamaro so well that an unfamiliar (albeit admittedly highly skilled rider) could get on and have a respectable ride.

Regarding the Roosevelt quote, I was referring to the inferences people were making from CHS’s blog post. Some of what she wrote was being misinterpreted and a few people were offended because they read something into it that wasn’t there.

In a teaching situation, I am in total agreement with you that there is never any place for putting down a student who is trying to learn. However, some students will experience “can’t do” moments when the instructor knows they can do it and just need a push; of course, an encouraging push but still a push. For myself, I want my instructor to acknowledge the things that I do that are correct so that I know which things to perpetuate, but I don’t want to hear a lot of “ooohs” and “aaahs” for work that is maybe an improvement but still not deserving of an 8. In other words, I want an honest appraisal of my strengths and weaknesses rather than someone trying to make me feel good.

Read most posts, but not all, so apologies if this was already said. I think one of the real issues in the US is that we don’t really have a lot of trainers who do it all - how many top GP trainers have trained their GP horses from the beginning, vice importing them with a level of accomplishment already established? I choose clinicians that have proven they can train horses at my level, because I want to know how to train, not just ride, my horses. The problem is that many local trainers top out at a certain level because they have incorrect basics. So, I do value clinics with BNTs that hone in on the gaps in training that appear early on and can undo progress later.

I just did a clinic with Pierre Cousyn, and he is incredible! He worked with many riders who were struggling in different ways with activity behind and being correctly on the bit - reducing our reliance on our hands. What I found amazing was that the activity behind, the soft acceptance of the bit that was the goal of the riders on green or spoiled horses, or of green riders, were exactly the same issues that popped up in the riders schooling GP movements on their horses. For example, the tempi changes were flat because the hind end lost activity - the solution was to do transitions within the gait to activate and maintain the activity of the hind end - to achieve true collection vs. just slowing down. And the activity behind was the fundamental lesson for everyone, from basic stuff on up.

I don’t mind that some clinicians limit themselves to upper level riders because quite frankly, they may not know how to handle the issues my horses have - they are both rescues and didn’t have a perfect start in life.

Honestly, many top riders are there not because they know how to train a horse to that level, but they know how to buy a horse at that level and ride it well, and can afford to do so. Nothing wrong with that, but THAT kind of clinic would be a waste of my money. Working with a master who knows the fundamentals all the way to the top - I’ll pay top money for that any day.

Oh, finally, my inlaws are German - they are blunt, so is my son-in-law!
Takes some getting used to culturally.

But she’s not german and she seems rather more sensitive than most germans I know.lol

for the vast majority of trainers that I know they own the barns, teach the students, train the horses, coach at shows, drive the trailers,…

in order to have a clinician in they must guarantee the fee, arrange the travel/accomodations, advertise, schedule the rides,…

they must forego their income from lessons, training, etc for the duration of the clinic

having their students ride with the clinician allows them to guarantee that the spots will fill, allows them to (often) subsidize a ride or two on their own horse, allows them to gain insights into new methods for getting concepts across to the students, allows them to encourage (or perhaps indulge) their students by giving the student the opportunity to ride with a ‘name’,…

I know of no ‘trust-fund-baby’ trainers, just these folk that routinely work 7 days a week to earn their living - telling the folk that are working that hard to try to advance their own skills (as well as their students) by hiring a clinician that letting lower level riders attend is not properly ‘honoring’ - that’s gall

[QUOTE=Crockpot;7103994]
I don’t see anything wrong with meup’s posts on this thread.
I’ve seen this before though- if you can’t debate the issue, then attack the other person for their so called sad miserable life?. LOL.[/QUOTE]

Crockpot, does it really look like I’m having any trouble debating the issues. :wink: For 7 years, I worked a crazy schedule doing horses and a full-time job–much like what meup described her schedule as being. It sucked the fun right out of horses, so now I do my full-time job and just work my own horses; no boarders, no lessons, and I’m much happier. I was packing too much into every day/week/month and so on and had to make a change. The post in which she described her schedule sounds close to where I was 3 years ago, and it doesn’t sound happy, but I could be inferring something that isn’t there.

[QUOTE=suzy;7104210]
Crockpot, does it really look like I’m having any trouble debating the issues. :wink: For 7 years, I worked a crazy schedule doing horses and a full-time job–much like what meup described her schedule as being. It sucked the fun right out of horses, so now I do my full-time job and just work my own horses; no boarders, no lessons, and I’m much happier. I was packing too much into every day/week/month and so on and had to make a change. The post in which she described her schedule sounds close to where I was 3 years ago.[/QUOTE]

It’s nice that, having been there and all, you so obviously relish the opportunity to add to everything that would make a person want to throw in the towel.

Currently my wonderful, motivated students and the successes they are having are still winning out over the voice in my head that says, “Who needs it?,” but keep at it. Maybe if you really set your mind to it you can add just enough @$$holery to the overall equation to take one more trainer who is willing to train the basics out of the pipeline.

We all have things to contribute, I guess this is yours.

I think her posts on this thread (haven’t read all others) are fine so don’t see the problem- maybe you are projecting your own difficulties on her ?/

It is fascinating to watch people read into things that are just not there…I’m understanding now how wars start.:no::eek:

[QUOTE=Spiritwalker;7104239]
It is fascinating to watch people read into things that are just not there…I’m understanding now how wars start.:no::eek:[/QUOTE]

By “things that are just not there” are you referring to my alleged “issues I have had for years” with CH?

Just clarifying.

Off topic, but this stirred a very fond memory. In high school and my early 20s, before I bought my own (at the time not very talented) horse, I took weekly lessons. My dad drove me across the GGB to Marin County, I came home by bus. The school horses were, for the most part, mutts. There were two nice TBs, one quite elderly. Hunt seat horses. The elderly TB had been owned by a gentleman who had been in the last of the US Army horse cavalry.

The teacher was in “real life” a real estate agent, but he rode hunt seat, and constantly complained that “everyone wants to jump, but noone wants to learn how to ride,” (i.e., do proper flat (dressage) work). He had, of course, privat students as well. One had quite a nice TB (this is the 60s - few, if any WBs around in this milieu). Then SHE discovered “dressage.” Okay, fine. She wasn’t particularly brave at jumping, why not do something else? From then on, however, she constantly disparaged her old hunt seat trainer, quite publicly at times.

One day, I guess he got fed up with the whole situation (but it wasn’t his barn, so he couldn’t ask her to leave.) He appeared one Satuday with a dressage saddle, saddled up the old TB school horse, and quietly just mounted and rode up to the main arena where she (and others) were riding. He quietly warmed the old boy up, and then proceeded to do basic dressage movements through about 3rd level, then did a a couple of lines of 2, 3 and ONE tempi changes on the old horse, cooled him out, and put him away. All without a word. The newly-minted dressage lady never said another negative word about him.

He was a good horseman - he’d just chosen hunt seat as his discipline of choice.

[QUOTE=meupatdoes;7104234]
It’s nice that, having been there and all, you so obviously relish the opportunity to add to everything that would make a person want to throw in the towel.

Currently my wonderful, motivated students and the successes they are having are still winning out over the voice in my head that says, “Who needs it?,” but keep at it. Maybe if you really set your mind to it you can add just enough @$$holery to the overall equation to take one more trainer who is willing to train the basics out of the pipeline.

We all have things to contribute, I guess this is yours.[/QUOTE]

I have to admit that I don’t really understand what you are getting at. But why does my quitting teaching/boarding have any impact on another person throwing in the towel? It was my personal choice. I was no longer getting to do fun things with my husband and was exhausted all the time. For me, and me only, the logical choice was to cut back on the horse activities since my day job pays far better and offers health insurance. I live in an area that has a number of good instructors, and I was only teaching TL and 1st level riders anyway, so it’s not as though I was leaving anyone high and dry. :wink: Clarifying this last comment–I’m NOT disparaging TL and 1st level riders; instead, I’m just making the point that they could easily move to another trainer. If I was a Robert Dover or Michael Poulin, then, yea, it would have been a big loss to my students for me to quit.

Can’t believe I am jumping in here because I try to make this whole horse business my stress-free zone…but this entire thread makes me sad on so many levels with the personal insults being hurled at people whom I have never met but whose posts I read and feel how committed they are to their horses, the entire sport, and especially bringing along newbies…especially when the insults are being delivered by others whose excellent advice and support I also love to read. So sad and so not in line with the rose-colored glasses I have on.

I’m the new ammy who works hard to get better like everyone else. I have a horse whom I ADORE, who works hard and tolerates all of my mistakes while working hard with my trainer at the same time, and whose whinneys and interactions make so many cares disappear for a period of time. Horse and I are in full training, and he’s well taken care of, lacking nothing. I’m not rich but I can afford to do it like this because I work hard to make it a priority.

I read every book I can get my hands on, watch tons of videos, talk to as many people as will talk to me and share their knowledge, post videos here to get even more feedback, go to as many shows as I can, from tiny to Del Mar, go to as many clinics as I can (audit OR ride if appropriate), talk to my trainer until I’m sure I’ve overstayed my welcome, watch other lessons, etc., and never blame my horse for anything. I’ve become very humbled by what it appears to take to succeed as a professional in this business…to ride at the upper levels…etc. it isn’t my aspiration. My aspiration is to stay safe, have FUN, LEARN, be the best horse mom I can be, and, yes, improve as much as I can and one day be able to see a video of me riding and be proud of how I look. I want to do it the RIGHT way and on a horse I love. Yes, it’s not everyone’s goal but I don’t really care about how others’ goals affect MINE.

And guess what? Yes, I’m patting myself on the back because I learned from all of you what seems to be important, and what seems to work the best. So much of what I have learned has come from THIS BOARD and the people on it who take the time to listen and watch a d encourage me, a beginner who has ZERO to offer them for contributing their own time and experience. Merrygoround’s signature line has become a staple in my riding life…those words echo deeply in my heart. I can only fix myself. Meupatdoes’ email about Fear Bird changed my riding FOREVER. And I gladly would have paid far more than $40 for that advice. Netg has become a good friend and suffers through my incessant rambling about my horse. Several others have taken so much time to PM me about saddles, etc.

AND, I grew up 50% in Germany and I rode some REALLY nice horses there. But I also lived there, had German friends, lived in a German village, etc. people are honest-stating “your elbows are straight and need to be bent” is direct. Saying “you aren’t going to be able to ride and I am above discussing elbow position” ISN’T direct and isn’t helpful UNLESS you’ve been teaching that person forever about elbow position. And if you think they won’t ever get it and you are tired of wasting your skill? FIRE THEM as a client. But really, are you above saying it in a clinic for an hour, especially if you are being PAID to do so AND your previous blog posts have been about how you don’t have the money to do what you really want to do???

I AM the amateur who will gladly pay for my trainer to have additional training on my horse because I love to watch and learn from any experience. Further, I certainly would support my trainer, even financially as much as I could, in getting additional training, although I certainly don’t see any gaps. my trainer works harder than ANYONE I know and always has the interests of the riders and horses at heart. never trainer’s own agenda. Horse is 14 and will never go GP and I don’t care!! What’s wrong with that?? Nothing, CHS would probably say, but then I am a waste of her skill. But that’s sad…because I WOULD do the homework, I WOULD probably benefit if she is as good as SHE says she is, and any time in the saddle with my boy is great fun for me. And, despite trainer’s best efforts, I still screw up royally on a daily basis…and seem to still learn things from others that trainer says to me in 20 different ways…and maybe that clinician’s words just made it all sink in BECAUSE of what my trainer has taught me all along…

Well, thanks for saving me the money…I won’t be attending any clinics with CHS unless my trainer advises me otherwise (I always listen to my trainer, always). And that’s an auditing fee that, while small, won’t be added to the checking account.

I found this latest blog kind of “meh,” but reading prior blogs have given me clearer insight into how this person thinks…and this representation isn’t someone I want to get advice from.

I’m not going to go into specifics, but just no.

Oh-and I have zero problem with anyone stating who they will and won’t teach. But maybe do it without such airs, hmm? Just a thought.

Oh and one more-I went to top school for my program, trained in top institutions (“the best of the best”), and yes, I teach/mentor people whom others could teach. Because I LIKE TO.

I knew I shouldn’t have read this whole thread. It makes me sad. Stop fighting.

Great story Sandy. Thanks for sharing it on this thread.

[QUOTE=suzy;7104259]
I have to admit that I don’t really understand what you are getting at. But why does my quitting teaching/boarding have any impact on another person throwing in the towel? It was my personal choice. I was no longer getting to do fun things with my husband and was exhausted all the time. For me, and me only, the logical choice was to cut back on the horse activities since my day job pays far better and offers health insurance. I live in an area that has a number of good instructors, and I was only teaching TL and 1st level riders anyway, so it’s not as though I was leaving anyone high and dry. :wink: Clarifying this last comment–I’m NOT disparaging TL and 1st level riders; instead, I’m just making the point that they could easily move to another trainer. If I was a Robert Dover or Michael Poulin, then, yea, it would be a big loss to my students for me to quit.[/QUOTE]

You are explaining to me how miserable I must be, how angry and vitriolic I allegedly am, I am shrewish and shrill, I am turning away potential customers, etc etc, and really why don’t I just quit. I have leveled zero personal attacks against you and you have been keeping them coming at me since a few pages back now.

Don’t even try to back pedal; why display any lack of commitment to the cause? You want to come after me? Don’t just pick at me here and there, really sink your teeth in and have at. Keep at it, you’re putting on a really good show.

Sandy- A gentleman and a good horseman. The word ‘Horseman’ is much over-used.

There are just not that many of them around, despite what some people think they are. It is a term conferred on someone by those who respect that person, not self-given. And most horsemen are gentlemen, and gentle men.
(and women) My Dad was one. My Mum - she didn’t get the horse gene!

And Suzy - thanks. Yes, a student wanting to learn does not want empty compliments. A trainable, thoughtful and hard working student wants the constructive criticism or they will not reach their ambitions. It takes a lot of work, mental and physical to overcome the bumps in the road…we know that.

Winyamaro must be a pretty special guy, too. I’ve never sat on a GP horse, but know that they are not like your every day school mutt - used to specialized aids. I’d get my leg an inch in the wrong place and be performing who knows what.

I do think, though, that I have inspired and helped a lot of people - kids mostly and some beginner adults, which is where my forte seems to be.
And I do take credit for a good bit of our daughter’s success, although praise is rather thin on the ground!

Go to Centerline Scores. Before Ms Haddad travelled to Germany , her average score in PSG was not even 60%
If the trainer she choose in Germany to work with felt the same as she does now , where would Ms Haddad be now. He took a chance on an inexperienced rider whom had the drive and determination to make herself better. Some of her points might be valid but her way of explaining them makes her look and sound as if she forgot where she came from and went thru. Just too bad she didn’t keep this opinion to herself . IMHO

Well said right horse at the right time!!

[QUOTE=meupatdoes;7104240]
By “things that are just not there” are you referring to my alleged “issues I have had for years” with CH?

Just clarifying.[/QUOTE]

Nope…this was a few years ago and with the re-design that info is no longer there I could be wrong but I don’t think this is the first issue you’ve had with CH. I want your job I wish I had the time to spend on these nasty boards:)