It’s extremely difficult to find trainers in the US who will give longe lessons. Very sad. Very true.
I felt put off by it as well. The editorial came of as elitist, snobby and offensive. I understand she has a “deep pocket of skills” but saying it’s disrespectful to have to lower herself to teach “rank amateurs”?
Do you offer longe lessons to your students, CHS?
[QUOTE=Crockpot;7103239]
It has started some discussion so that is good.[/QUOTE]
Agreed. And Haddad may have realized that her article would get read by many, many more people if she stirred the pot a bit. I hope that is the case, at least…
[QUOTE=Catherine Haddad;7103124]
How many of you critics know how to give a proper longe lesson to teach correct sitting? How many of you can correct a contact problem? Clearly, not enough! [/QUOTE]
So assuming I drag my horse 9 hours to you (or whoever you were addressing previously “sends me”) for this trainer-only symposium we are contemplating…
…who, pray tell, will you be demonstrating how to give a proper longe lesson on? Would you like us to bring a lower level demo rider too? Who will you be correcting a contact problem on so that we can all see how you do it? Does the trainer’s symposium need a demo rider for that too?
At some point, can we just collect a group of our students and pay you $300 a session to watch you teach them so we can learn how to do it?
But wait.
This is shunting our training problems on to you and making you do our jobs, and it does not speak well of our skills.
So I guess one of the trainers in the symposium we just drove 9 hours for will just pretend to be a beginner learning the sitting trot so they can get this longe lesson and all the other trainers can watch. The key to saving US dressage.
By the way, yes, I have TAKEN longe lessons. In Germany, no less. Boo yah.
This is different, imo, from being taught how to TEACH one. I have one student who try as I might I just can’t quite get her biomechanics lined up. It would not help me help her to take an additional longe lesson to work on my issues. It would help me to have my German trainer come out and teach this longe lesson so I can see what I am missing, perhaps my teaching light bulb would go off. And round and round we go. Who will be the guinea pig at the trainer symposium?
Interesting. I rather see both sides on this topic.
I ride with a BNT (S judge, long listed multiple times, multiple USDF positions, etc) and I coordinate her clinics at our barn. She will teach absolutely anyone, on any kind of horse, as long as they come with a strong desire to learn and are willing to work at it. Her feeling is that everyone needs access to quality instruction and it is her job to provide that service.
In fact she has said multiple times that beginning riders need better quality instruction because it’s such a critical time in the learning process.
I tend to agree. I have seen her made massive change in a few lessons with students who struggled year after year making no improvement with their regular instructor.
I personally would never train with someone who wasn’t getting ongoing instruction and also competing, but I live in the SF Bay Area where we are lucky enough to have access to a number of very good trainers. The trainers have access to trainers. Not everyone is so lucky.
When I consider participating in a clinic I always ask my trainer “will this person be interested in teaching me?” because I am once again bringing along a green horse and I don’t want to spend my hard earned dollars getting ignored or insulted. I have had good instruction but I also have a busy career and can only ride 4 or 5 days a week.
Some trainers only want to teach FEI riders and that is totally their call.
Would be nice not to insult people though.
If you don’t want to teach lower level riders, just tell the clinic organizer your requirements ahead of time. Don’t invite riders, have them pay for your time and then insult them after the fact.
Bless her heart…
Seems to me Mrs Staller is looking for a lucrative teaching[QUOTE][/QUOTE] base. Teach only talented, well-mounted, deep-pocketed and/or well-funded pros. Looking to well-heeled ammies and ammy owners who will foot the bill in hopes that the Trickle Down theory works for them. And she’s worth this…why, exactly?
Dear Catherine
I am that little trainer that you discuss…I deal with people that cannot or, do not, put the time or effort into learning our sport. I deal with the moms who want the children to win with no time in the saddle. I deal with the people in our country that do not want to…eeeek…hit or kick their horse to get it to behave. I deal with a part of the industry that you most likely do not have to deal with. I take the horses that are naughty, from the riders that cannot ride or train to say the least, and risk my welfare to make them better.
My show record sucks, to put it honestly, because I cannot afford the high costs to prove what I am, and what I know. I have kicked riders off of my farm, good high paying clients, because I cannot put up with the crap, to teach them the right way. Many of those riders do not want to work, but oh my, do they want to win. So, I send them to the BNT trainers for a kick in the ass. Yes, I said it, I send them to you. I say, support the big names, that know what they are doing. Lets see what they say. Let those people support you, and please don’t sugar coat it…let them have real input from a great teacher to see where they are at.
Yes, the system is broke. We know that. I would say that the person having the clinic wants to learn, Catherine, and that they filled it with whomever was available at the time. Kick those asses, make the riders that cannot sit the trot work for it. At the end of the day they might have WAY more respect for the coach at home. Show them that the little guy has the same ideas as the BNT’S in this country. Take their money, like you want us to do, and give them their money’s worth. Maybe if you were known as a hard ass, tough to ride with, super honest instructor…more beginners would just pass on what you do. Those same people think we are too tough or hard, it sure would be nice if you would back us up!
I would ride ride or work with you in a heartbeat. I think your article was superb. Just make sure that you target the right audience, because the rest of us are trying to make a living too. Also, try not to slam the Ammies that are trying, they have lives and families, and they do work to progress. Many of those people literally keep trainers alive, and I respect where they are. People with good common sense, drive our industry forward and we need to appreciate them tenfold.
[QUOTE=Catherine Haddad;7103124]
Ladies, [/QUOTE]
Dudes don’t matter?
I cannot train the entire base of beginners in this country although from those I see in clinics, I think that I should.
To me, this if off putting. I agree with your opinions on basics and am often appalled by the skill sets of professionals, but I find your blog narcissistic.
Since I cannot train them all, SEND ME THEIR TRAINERS
What if the trainers do not choose to train with you?
Frequently in my college-level microbiology class I have students who lack basic algebra. I could make them feel small, berate their lack of skills, malign their high school teachers…or I can help them with their basic algebra. In fact I get a kick out of a grown up’s eyes as the light finally dawns and s/he understands something that has eluded him/er for years.
Paula
Yes, THIS.
Quoting RTF:
Also, try not to slam the ammies that are trying, they have lives and families, and they do work to progress. Many of those people literally keep trainers alive, and I respect where they are. People with good common sense, drive our industry forward and we need to appreciate them tenfold.
I am torn on her position. While I understand her sentiment, I do not agree with how she communicates her ideas to the masses. One poster wrote something to the effect “it would be like sending a first grader to a college class”. Well yes, however that is a bit of an unfair statement. What if Einstein came to your elementary class and talked about science! How great, how inspiring, how instructive would that have been! Of course, he would not have explained E=MC2 to first graders, but he could have spoken about the marvels of science. True, CSH is not going to discuss passage with a second level rider, but she may inspire them, the auditors and their instructors on how to build upon their basics to one day learn passage… She may discuss with them the elements of proper position, how to develop an independent seat, she may elect to give them a lunge lesson. These are the fundamentals of her expertise.
Let me say I am a competitive AA rider, learning to go up the levels on my own homebred mare. I attend/ ride in many clinics from Felicitas V-N Consul, JJ Tate, Suzanne Von Dietze, Stefan Peters, Henk Van Bergen, Kathy Morelli, Kathy Connelly. I work hard, I am dedicated, I am a good student, I am committed to improving and developing. I have gleaned so much from each of these clinics. But this sport is my hobby, not my job, no aspirations for the Olympics. However, I would consider myself a good clinic student, even though I may not be ready for instruction of piaffe and passage, canter zig zags, tempi changes, etc. I don’t think I would be “wasting” a clinicians time or skills. I did not ride with any of the clinicians to add to my resume…I have no resume as this is my hobby!
I would love in my job as a veterinarian to only pick clients that do all my recommendations, that do all preventative care, that aren’t hoarders, that don’t leave their dogs chained outdoors, that don’t let their dog’s teeth rot out of their heads. Believe me when I say after dealing with some of these clients I go into my office a have a complete bitch fest about how irresponsible these folks are, how ridiculous some of their statements are, etc. There I times I would LOVE to start a bitch blog about some of the folks that walk through my hospital door. However, that would be completely counterproductive. Instead I spend as much time as possible discussing the importance of using a flea product versus motor oil to prevent fleas, that a collar needs to made larger as a puppy grows, that your cat smells because he is an unneutered tomcat, etc. Am I trained to well above these menial discussions? Yes. Do I spend about 5hrs out of each talking about these things? Yes. Do I find it frustrating and annoying a lot of times? Yes. Do I think it is a waste of my skill set? No. I think if I can improve one persons way of doing things I have done my job and used my communication skills to their best effort.
JMHO and $0.02.
I took it to mean that the trainers aren’t good enough to really teach the basics to their students and that they watch Haddad with the intent of mimmicking her later while teaching their students, but that the trainers still don’t really understand the basics well enough to get it across to others (their students).
Now that you all are so cranked up, you are forcing me out of my chronicle board’s retirement. The main reason for my retirement on this forum is for the sheer negativity of it. I am willing to share my experience, and in doing so will make sure I put on my suit of armor, as I will be most likely shredded when this is all said and done.
First of all, Kudu’s to Catherine for always having the courage to express her opinion! Many of you have picked out a phrase a sentence or a word that resonated with you either positively or negatively, but missed the message as a whole. As an Adult amateur, I read with interest and often with agreement her entire post. I am a CHS clinic auditor and when I can be a rider. I am an AA. I have ridden with Catherine as a training level rider and she has brought me over the years to FEI. If you hear from her blog that she is unwilling to train lower level riders you have missed the message.
I am still an AA, I am still always reconfirming the basics each and every ride. Access to good clinicians and good trainers are a challenge for all of us. Depending on where you live, some of us are more fortunate than others…hence the message-trainers or so called trainers, educate yourself. The better you are, the better you can train your students and the less likely you will need to bring in clinicians to help your students learn how to ride a horse to the bit. If you can’t help your students with simple basics, then you should be the one clinicing on each and every one of their horses until you can do it yourself, and learn how to communicate it to your students. Don’t blame Catherine for lack of good training in your area, which is the point of her blog. Whether you are in Buffalo, SF, or BumFK, there is someone that calls themselves a “trainer”. Make that person accountable and stop shooting the messenger.
"First of all, Kudu’s to Catherine for always having the courage to express her opinion! "
There are more than a few of us who already stated that we were ok with the general ideas that Catherine is trying to get across. However, the way she communicated those ideas was a turn off to many. We aren’t “shooting the messenger”, merely indicating that there are much more effective ways to say the same sort of stuff without alienating or insulting your audience.
[QUOTE=SnicklefritzG;7103359]
"First of all, Kudu’s to Catherine for always having the courage to express her opinion! "
There are more than a few of us who already stated that we were ok with the general ideas that Catherine is trying to get across. However, the way she communicated those ideas was a turn off to many. We aren’t “shooting the messenger”, merely indicating that there are much more effective ways to say the same sort of stuff without alienating or insulting your audience.[/QUOTE]
No one can insult you without your permission, and in many cases I think most people are so complicit in their own ability to be offended that it doesn’t matter what you say or how you say it. They’ll pick the one word out of a positive statement that they can reinterpret negatively and then ‘they’re off!’.
A little too much focus on the delivery and not enough on the message is going on here. Why do so many of you insist of being miserable by trying to find the ‘ulterior’ motives of others. I like her bold, no nonsense style. Way better than having someone blow bubbles of BS up my butt.
[QUOTE=Trevelyan96;7103378]
No one can insult you without your permission, and in many cases I think most people are so complicit in their own ability to be offended that it doesn’t matter what you say or how you say it. They’ll pick the one word out of a positive statement that they can reinterpret negatively and then ‘they’re off!’.
A little too much focus on the delivery and not enough on the message is going on here. Why do so many of you insist of being miserable by trying to find the ‘ulterior’ motives of others.[/QUOTE]
No one ever said we were “miserable” or trying to find “ulterior motives”. It would behoove you to follow your own advice and stop reading into other peoples’ interpretations. Did we say we were personally insulted? Go back to many of the statements here that said we agreed with much of what she said but not the way she said it.
[QUOTE=SnicklefritzG;7103359]
"First of all, Kudu’s to Catherine for always having the courage to express her opinion! "
There are more than a few of us who already stated that we were ok with the general ideas that Catherine is trying to get across. However, the way she communicated those ideas was a turn off to many. We aren’t “shooting the messenger”, merely indicating that there are much more effective ways to say the same sort of stuff without alienating or insulting your audience.[/QUOTE]
what is insulting or alienating in her message?- I was not insultated or alienated Are you the trainer she is referring to?
Apparently there is no one in the whole of the USA capable of teaching as well as CH. Wouldn’t Lendon Grey be shocked to discover that teaching youth and producing future olympians is just so sub par to what CH can offer, becuase, to paraphrase her, she is the only one capable of bring along the beginner base in the USA. not to mention the trainers who graduated from the dressage instructors program, and were tested on their very ability to longe, and teach before being given dressage instructors accreditation.
I agree, kudos to her for speaking her mind. It is like a warning label on cigarettes, refreshing in its honesty.
