So the FEI reviewed Olympic Dressage. competition photos and found a number of horses had blue tongues. No alterations of the results will be made, they’re just bringing the offending riders in for a discussion. No names named.
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Ooh bringing them in for a discussion! Now the horses will be saved!!
Not.
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Am I alone in thinking the conversation will be less, “we must put the horse and its welfare first” and more “we must be more careful when in a public venue”?
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She said on the clip that the whip she was using was “shit for hitting them hard” and that’s what she wanted to do. People are so disappointed with her because of her prior gaslighting. We feel deceived and if that is what it takes to be a winner, I, at least, want no part of it. I’ll follow people like Ingrid Klimke. She gymnasticizes her horses to be more expressive. She actually has a program and a progression.
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well I would love to be a fly on the wall when Werth is pulled in!
Maybe double bridles will face ban, which would be kind of cool to see how everyone would adapt.
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I’ve tried to listen for this specific phrasing on the video many, many times and just can’t hear it. It sounds to me like “This is shit, I’m hitting him hard,” which obviously doesn’t negate the actions but to me can be interpreted differently. IDK.
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I can’t watch it again, but maybe you are right. Either way, not good. In what I heard, it declares she wanted to hit the horse hard. In what you heard, it declares that she knew she was hitting the horse hard and kept doing it anyway.
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The problem is NOT the double bridles.
The problem IS that these riders have harsh, unforgiving and super abusive hands.
FIX the hands. Once these riders learn to ride with soft, responsive and giving hands all these problems will disappear like magic. No more gaping mouths (thus no super tight nose bands), no more blue tongues, a great decrease in the need to spur the horse especially spurring the horse hard and repeatedly, and the horses will respond once they get over the trauma of being trained incorrectly.
When I talk with my riding teacher about the strength of contact one of my phrases is “contact with reins made of cobweb.” This is not for constant contact, it is for when the rider has asked for a big effort that requires the horse to use its body correctly. If I were still able to jump horses I would be using cobweb reins over the jump. If I am put on a horse that has big problems with contact I use cobweb reins. If a horse is upset about something I start my rein aids with cobweb reins. The first time I ride a particular horse my first rein aids use the cobweb reins.
If cobweb reins were in the tool boxes of many riders their horses would be much happier with them.
Of course I am not using a cobweb as a rein. What this entails is lightening my contact until I barely have a feeling of contact, sometimes with slightly sagging reins. My fingers, wrists, arms and shoulders are relaxed. I emphasize the relaxation of my fingers, elbows and shoulders when the horse moves its head forward in response to my driving leg aids.
Banning double bridles would increase the hidden abuse of the horse’s mouth, especially when combined with tight nose bands. At least for training out of the public eye the cannons of the snaffle bits being used would end up looking like instruments of torture, at least more so than some snaffle bits in use today.
All of this could change more easily if the dressage judges did not use the horse’s head being behind the vertical as “proof” of thoroughness. THAT in itself would start a positive movement to riding with light, responsive, supple and educated hands, hands that give the horse room to express itself naturally, no heavy spurring required.
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I’ve also heard it as “this is shit, I’m not hitting him hard”.
I’ve heard it multiple different ways the more often I’ve listened to it - the fact is, it’s just very difficult to tell what is being said here, as evidenced by the conversation directly after, which sounds like a conversation about what the whip is, and whether or not it actually has a lash. It’s super hard to understand.
Still NOT defending the actions.
Just saying - I’m not sure this is what all are saying it is.
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Agreed. You can reef on a snaffle and abuse a horse as well.
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Love this thought.
Unfortunately, the powers that be and big money will probably not work towards this unless judging changes.
From my humble, off the beaten path, not exposed to the big time place - I see an unfortunate set of circumstances that are leading to the observation of blue tongues, which I find utterly abhorrent.
First, I suspect that blue tongues were happening for awhile but the crack down on noseband tightness are now allowing for mouths to open, allowing the blue tongue to be photographed.
Second, it may be difficult for judges (and spectators) to see in real time the blue tongues and score appropriately.
Third, the epitome of Jackie’s description may be very long in developing when you have these super forward, athletic horses being bred now for dressage. *this is not an excuse! There apparently is a big rush to develop these phenoms. And developing the correct ability to sit w/ out being shut down in front w/ a big bit, well that probably takes a long time, This is something the big business dressage doesn’t want to take, when the horses “look” so fabulous already and win. The reality is in the contact and blue tongues.
I believe (really hope, actually) that there are still those developing horses properly. I really hope that this is a subset of big dressage but a fix must be made.
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There is correctly forward and then there is rushing and being over tempo. Horses go where you train them to go and how you acclimate them to go.
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I posted this last year on another thread. That particular discussion was regarding bits, but clamped down nosebands and strong, unyielding hands that hold the bit tightly on the tongue also contribute to the problem.
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An obvious example of a horse being pushed over tempo was Hermes (Dinja van Liere). His gaits looked rushed, frenetic, chaotic. I couldn’t believe that they placed as high as they did in the standings. There wasn’t much poetry to their rides.
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Also there is a technique that some riders use by constantly pushing to an unyielding hand. They are scoring higher than the ones who ride from the seat. To fix this, overall, the judges will have to overhaul their value system.
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@Jackie_Cochran for me it’s not to fix the hands… these people can have good hands. What they are lacking is a strong seat and the pressure to get it done over rides the patience to wait until the horse collects off the seat.
If we made the idea of only collect what power you can contain on your seat the goal, then the standard will change. The fact that a strong person can and will collect with the hands and does not need to be patient is the issue.
It also is riskier to mistakes in competition if the horse has that much freedom we can make more mistakes. It’s all a choice of how we want to ride and train.
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Wouldn’t it be fun to put a breakable “fuse” into the reins that would fail at X pounds of pressure?
I bet more non-horsey folks would watch dressage with that.
(just kidding, in case it isn’t obvious)
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A good vaquero “bridle” horse (one educated enough to go in a spade bit) is supposed to be light enough to the aids that you can use a single tail hair for a rein.
(Not relevant to dressage, I know, but it’s a fun fact.)
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What does this mean ?
I’d call it almost rearing.
If it’s the video I saw, CDJ’s mother wouldn’t likely be sure if it was her, and it looked like the mare spooked possibly, and threw her head up and tried to get the heck out of dodge. Looked like early in the day in a warmup ring. The only possible “jerking on the reins” looked like trying to get things back under control.
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