I would keep explaining chestnuts the way you always have. Contrary to the behavior of a certain subset of the faithful, being a devout Christian does not require one to inflict snarky religious comments on random people one encounters during the course of one’s daily activities. This parent was rude.
Nevermind. Forget I posted. I’m hopping off this train right now.
AAAAAALLLLLLLLLL AAAAABOOOOAAARD!!
See? You can’t argue with a creationist, because if one person wants (heaven - pun intended - forbid!) EVIDENCE and the other person would rather just make something up whole cloth, the two are never going to be able to find common ground.
Personally, I would give the evolution explanation, and if someone questions it say, “If you didn’t want the answer, you shouldn’t have asked” - and then refuse to discuss the subject any further.
Would someone please pass me the popcorn?
I just want to know what the hell an “ergot” is. I’ve had horses for years and never heard that term. (I know what chesnuts are, though!) It must be called something else down here, LOL.
You know that little nub on the back of their pasterns…It grows…you can trim them…That’s the ergot.
That was extremely rude. Nobody was asking her opinion. And you should not alter your answer, diluting its roots in facts just to keep a few creationists more comfortable.
Next time she starts on that, shift the topic to human evolution. Ask her why human fetuses have a clearly discernable tail up until about day 40 when the appendage is reabsorbed. If humans aren’t related to ANY animal, why the tail? 
That ought to confuse her a moment.
Mark me off as an idiot then. 
Look more carefully at horse anatomy. Do you really know where the “wrist” analogy is in the front leg? It’s not the pastern joint.
Here is a good diagram of horse anatomy including similarities to human limbs:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equine_forelimb_anatomy
We also have fossil records that over time show the toes vanishing. Here’s one diagram that shows the changes over time:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution_of_the_horse
Nothing but some birds has a toe sticking out backwards from the foot.
The location/angle of the ergot isn’t much different than the dewclaw on a pig. Neither are actual functioning toes pointing back and perpindicular to the ground (like your bird analogy).
How do you explain dewclaws if they’re not the leftover bit of a toe?
I guess you could call me a creationist. I don’t feel there is enough proof for me to have to accept evolution (if by evolution you mean that bacteria evolved into people, if you are talking gene frequency change that’s a diffrent matter). And I believe that God created everything…
I think some non-horsey people might ask that wondering if it serves a purpose for the horse. Same as you might ask what the metal loops on the saddle (I’m forgetting what they are called right now) are for. It doesn’t serve an obvious purpose, and they wanted to know. I asked what the chestnut was at one point (I was a little kid at the time) and was told it was a hunk of dry skin that serves no purpose, kind of like the thing some dogs have on the outside of the leg.
If they were so foals could find the udder…Why would male horses have them?
There is no “evidence” to support the notion that the splint bones and the chestnut/ergot have anything whatsoever to do with each other. There is, instead, that inconvenient little detail that the splint bones are solid bone with no hint of the actual toe remaining, yet the chestnut/ergot have what would be a considerable portion of the toe, more or less, yet not not one sliver of the bone they must have been connected to remains. That makes no evolutionary sense whatsoever. The old wives’ tale about chestnuts helping horses see better in the dark makes more sense than this business about toes.
Last time I looked, the horse’s “wrist” was what we erroneously call a knee. Last time I looked, the chestnuts on the front legs were above this “wrist”. Certainly not an ideal place for a toe…
The location/angle of the ergot isn’t much different than the dewclaw on a pig. Neither are actual functioning toes pointing back and perpindicular to the ground (like your bird analogy).
How do you explain dewclaws if they’re not the leftover bit of a toe?
“Dewclaws” are associated with cloven hooves. They’re not a “leftover bit of toe” any more than one half or the other of the cloven hoof would be – they are one of the properties of having cloven hooves in the first place. Dewclaws aren’t intended to be weightbearing under most circumstances, only a stablizer in deep or steep going.
Because male horses were at one time baby horses, who needed to be identifiable to their mothers.
Though the mother/baby recognition factor is primary, I’m sure it comes in handy for horses to recognize each other in the herd as well.
Anyway, I didn’t suggest that chestnuts helped the foal find the udder (though I don’t discount it as a possiblity) – I was suggesting that the odor of the mother’s chestnuts would help the foal identify her, as would the oder of the foal’s chestnuts help the mother identify him.
hahaha— for those that dont believe that an ergot and chesnut isnt a toe or a dew claw on a dog isnt a toe –
explain why its made up as like the nails – like us humans – with our nails
that if it caught or cut to short it will bleed – it has ie horse - dog – human to that kind— the same make up and and structure of the finger nail
for exsample ahorses foot has structures that xcross and to make that sturcture of the foot it you trim to short it will bleed so to is the ergot and the chestnut — its is part of the foot – and there fore as the fooot that once started out as digits –
and as regards to your explaination of a foal graysandbays-- findig its mother as its a scent gland what happpens if the mother dies and that foal is put on another mare – that bonding comes from when she licks the sack of the foal its important to get that bond as when the foal is born they have there own scent of her and its self-- you can re introduce a ofhan foal to a mare thats lost her foal quite sucessfully --with out the need to disgusie its scent – as the foal will go to any one to feed once it recongises wher the food comming from like all small animals it will contiune to go to that source even if you are human with a bottle we dont have ergots or chesnuts we have hands and digits – its hungry it will feed –
lambs do, pigs do puppies do kittens do baby calfs do –
in fact calf are feed from a bottle thats attached to there pens–
its the scent of milk – that the foal smells —
Bottle fed human babies also recognize where milk comes from if a woman who is nursing picks that other baby up.
Lovin’ this thread…
Of course, my ex-husband (a Southern Baptist from Arkansas) also claimed that the skulls and depictions of Cro-Magnon, Neanderthal, etc in the SMITHSONIAN MUSEUM were all FAKE…and he refused to read or look at the exibit AT ALL. Made quite a scene…and the fact that I was laughing hysterically made it a little worse…:lol: As I said…EX HUSBAND. Of course, he also thought Washington state was Washington, DC…but that’s another story…:sadsmile:
Dolphins and certain whales have hip bones…and horses were once multi-toed…and SOME humans are actually BORN with a tail if it doesn’t get reabsorbed…and it is surgically removed at birth.
And if everything was created in 7 days…on what day were the dinosaurs made?
So why would evolution preclude creationism? I know my god would be smart enough to “create” through evolution. That has always mystified me. Such an either/or, black/white, way if looking at the universe…My belief it is the vestigial remains of the “toes”…Sounds like the OPs inquirer was just starting some religious sh*t and really had no interest in the horses’ chestnuts but in some type of philosophical arguement!
Kentucky Horse Park
Has a lovely exhibit of the ancient horse WITH his toes showing.
I recall going to this exhibit w/ a boyfriend who was outraged at the display. How dare they tamped with history. :no: Needless to say THAT relationship bit the dust rapidly.
Oh yeah, pass me some popcorn too.
Whooooo whooooooo
Chooga choogga choooga chew!!!
My tactful answer to these questions are “one theory is that the chestnut is the remainer of a toe” and I always add “another is that it is where the legs press together in the womb”. I always hope they except that and don’t notice the ergot. Jumphigh83, I’m with you. What difference does it make whether Adam and Eve were covered in hair and climbed in trees? Many times we miss the big picture.
Yep, we are tooo tiny and narrowminded to miss the whole picture!
Hey, Pope just forgave a scientist for observing that the Sun is the center of our system. What next will he say?
