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Children riding in side reins off the lunge

Dressage
#21

[QUOTE=Valentina_32926;8185634]
My trainer had a student that went to a local German trainer who put her in that situation - she ended up with a broken neck.

So no - I wouldn’t have a rider up with side reins on.[/QUOTE]

What a horrible outcome, but what specifically about the side reins caused the (I’m assuming) fall that resulted in the broken neck? Horses are plenty capable of putting themselves into situations with or without the side reins that put their rider in danger.

I’m of the camp that says if the horse goes well on the lunge in side reins and they are sufficiently loose, that they can be a good tool to use ion the right situations under saddle.

#22

No more risk than riding in a Market Harborough, Draw reins, martingales!

Hopefully you will not be putting a child on a pony not used to side reins, therefore there is no risk of the horse suddenly having a panic attack!

Why should riding around the school be any different to riding in side reins on the lunge?

The best pony to teach any child on is a well mannered well schooled pony that responds to the riders aids even if they are a little shaky.

And as for tripping - how often do your horses trip or stumble in the school? Even when being ridden there are very few riders that would have the reaction time to drop the contact so the horse can recover.

SRS use them all the time, its the easiest way to teach the rider to ride into a contact, by the time they get the full use of the reins they are already riding the horse correctly forward.

The length of side reins allows for 20m circles and loops and serpentines can be ridden with ease.

#23

[QUOTE=Valentina_32926;8185634]
My trainer had a student that went to a local German trainer who put her in that situation - she ended up with a broken neck.

So no - I wouldn’t have a rider up with side reins on.[/QUOTE]

So I guess you will never go eventing or showjumping or hunting or even dressage. In all of these disciplines someone at sometime has broken their neck.

When you ride at anytime their is an element of risk. If you are passionate enough you realise that the risk is worth the ride.

#24

[QUOTE=Tnavas;8187773]
And as for tripping - how often do your horses trip or stumble in the school? Even when being ridden there are very few riders that would have the reaction time to drop the contact so the horse can recover.
.[/QUOTE]

A horse having his head tied to the saddle is much much different then a rein. this isn’t about recovery, its about not breaking his neck. A rider will give or fall with enough force, most side reins won’t.

And no, I don’t like the idea of riding in draw reins or gadgets any more then SR for this reason (and the fact they promote headsets).

I also worry about a leg getting caught up.

For me it’s about minimizing risk-- breakaway halters, only leather tack (not nylon), no excess straps, take off reins when longing, breakaway SR, etc. Common sense :slight_smile:

1 Like
#25

[QUOTE=rothmpp;8187769]
What a horrible outcome, but what specifically about the side reins caused the (I’m assuming) fall that resulted in the broken neck? Horses are plenty capable of putting themselves into situations with or without the side reins that put their rider in danger.

I’m of the camp that says if the horse goes well on the lunge in side reins and they are sufficiently loose, that they can be a good tool to use ion the right situations under saddle.[/QUOTE]

This is a good point. Where I learned to ride we had a German head trainer who’d learned in the German system, and so you’d better believe there were side reins for the newbies and as people needed them, on and off the lunge. Most major fall? Horse tripped, didn’t have side reins. Luckily I somehow propelled myself off about ten feet sideways (physics? what’s that?) and didn’t get fallen on or rolled on, and the horse was fine.

#26

[QUOTE=SendenHorse;8187851]
A horse having his head tied to the saddle is much much different then a rein. this isn’t about recovery, its about not breaking his neck. A rider will give or fall with enough force, most side reins won’t.

And no, I don’t like the idea of riding in draw reins or gadgets any more then SR for this reason (and the fact they promote headsets).

I also worry about a leg getting caught up.

For me it’s about minimizing risk-- breakaway halters, only leather tack (not nylon), no excess straps, take off reins when longing, breakaway SR, etc. Common sense :)[/QUOTE]

I don’t know where you have got the idea that a horse tripping in side reins could break its neck - consider the number of harness horses racing/training day in day out for decades with an overcheck on.

I’ve worked in the equine industry for over 40 years and not yet had one trip in side reins and the only broken neck I saw was the result of some idiot not doing up the back straps of a cover and the horse was turned out, cover slid around, horse stood on it and it dropped him.

Leather tack too doesn’t break often, takes a great deal of force, If you secure your reins correctly for lunging they don’t even get in the way, and to be honest have never heard of breakaway side reins!

When you work with horses you don’t have the time to dismantle them and reassemble once lunging’s finished.

Correct way to secure reins for lunging - have reins over the horses head ass if you are about to ride, undo throat lash, reach under the throat for the offside rein in one hand and the nearside rein in the other, twist them around each other several times, then pass the throat lash between them, do up throat lash. Simple - reins safely out of the way.

Its quite easy to go totally overboard with being cautious to the point of being ridiculous.

1 Like
#27

So the rider doesn’t have reins? The horse is simply going around with side reins and no other steering? But if the rider does have reins separate from the side reins they are still able to balance on the horses mouth and the horse cannot show the discomfort of having a rider water skiing on their face because the side reins control his head movement. This sounds like it is more for the rider’s benefit and less for the horse. Like the western riders that tie the head down with a very tight martingale. The horses mouth is gaping and the curb is horizontal, but hey, the horse isn’t throwing it’s head. :frowning:

1 Like
#28

NNot quite like that at all, yes the rider has the reins - it wouldn’t be at all safe to have the rider with absolutely no control.

A good instructor will not allow a rider to balance on the reins but would ensure the early education on the lunge has developed an independant seat that can rise to the trot without using the reins to get them up off the saddle.

#29

Yes, when I rode in Germany, beginners were in side reins in group lessons until they had independent seats. No problem. Also at the time lowest level dressage tests had 2 or 4 riders at the same time. Before one could show at “A” level, training level, one had to pass have their bronze riding medal, passing a test in theory, dressage and jumping. Easy to see the Germans have a great system. Don’t know what other countries do.

Theresa

[QUOTE=Tnavas;8188159]
NNot quite like that at all, yes the rider has the reins - it wouldn’t be at all safe to have the rider with absolutely no control.

A good instructor will not allow a rider to balance on the reins but would ensure the early education on the lunge has developed an independant seat that can rise to the trot without using the reins to get them up off the saddle.[/QUOTE]

2 Likes
#30

[QUOTE=Gestalt;8188073]
So the rider doesn’t have reins? The horse is simply going around with side reins and no other steering? But if the rider does have reins separate from the side reins they are still able to balance on the horses mouth and the horse cannot show the discomfort of having a rider water skiing on their face because the side reins control his head movement. This sounds like it is more for the rider’s benefit and less for the horse. Like the western riders that tie the head down with a very tight martingale. The horses mouth is gaping and the curb is horizontal, but hey, the horse isn’t throwing it’s head. :([/QUOTE]

We had reins and side reins but the side reins weren’t so tight that the horse couldn’t express discomfort - we’re talking about just providing some steady contact for the horse to seek out, here, not an upper level frame. The reins gave the rider steering and some ability to seek contact, but if the instructor caught you balancing on them you’d get in all sorts of trouble and back on the lunge for you. Once your seat and hands developed enough to give the horse a reasonable level of comfortable contact, off came the side reins.

#31

[QUOTE=Tnavas;8188060]
I don’t know where you have got the idea that a horse tripping in side reins could break its neck - consider the number of harness horses racing/training day in day out for decades with an overcheck on.

I’ve worked in the equine industry for over 40 years and not yet had one trip in side reins and the only broken neck I saw was the result of some idiot not doing up the back straps of a cover and the horse was turned out, cover slid around, horse stood on it and it dropped him.

Leather tack too doesn’t break often, takes a great deal of force, If you secure your reins correctly for lunging they don’t even get in the way, and to be honest have never heard of breakaway side reins!

When you work with horses you don’t have the time to dismantle them and reassemble once lunging’s finished.

Correct way to secure reins for lunging - have reins over the horses head ass if you are about to ride, undo throat lash, reach under the throat for the offside rein in one hand and the nearside rein in the other, twist them around each other several times, then pass the throat lash between them, do up throat lash. Simple - reins safely out of the way.

Its quite easy to go totally overboard with being cautious to the point of being ridiculous.[/QUOTE]

Everyone has their own comfort level here with risk… My horses have been all very well behaved but it’s my choice to use breakway stuff when it makes sense…putting a prey animal that spooks at times in things that trap them in a fixed position with no release sort of makes me wonder…???

You might have a lot of experience, but I do as well :slight_smile: I am familiar with the twisting reins (I was raised in the german system) but if possible I like to remove reins, but not a deal breaker for me though…

And yes, I own a very nice pair of break away side reins.

#32

Wow interesting read. I grew up with side reins. We always had well trained horses but when I was under 13 I was considered to weak to ride the big horse correctly through the poll and I rode in regular lessons with other riders on lesson horses. And everybody had side reins. And we all survived. Some of the kids with side reins went on and won Olympic medals :slight_smile: I recently saw a kid on a gentle horse steering along without any influence with pretty long reins. At that moment I was wondering why not side reins… I guess this thread explained it to me… Its a pity… So much nicer for the horses and so much easier for kids to start to get the right feel on the horse…

This video shows how side reins work
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pONJ6o-96I

#33

Old thread bump (by Manni) for those who might not notice.

There are people that have made it to the Olympics not learning to ride with side reins too.
I think it falls into the category of ‘each to their own’. No reason to feel bad for those who do not do it your way.

5 Likes
#34

I noticed. Rehashing old post from 2015…I guess it was a slow night after they got the NP thread closed…lol!

4 Likes
#35

I guess people who are not as much interested in dressage and more interested in train wrecks dont even understand discussions about dressage… believe it or not ( I don’t care) I am interested in the topic right now… and I was thinking about opening a new thread about it when I found this thread and thought there is some valuable information in it…

#36

Not sure about that… I always hear people talking about the big numbers of good riders in Germany and about the German system . This is part of the German system… maybe it helps to develope all those good riders :slight_smile:

and thank you for being hostile as always

#37

Another here who noticed this old thread got bumped, but wanted to chime in because it’s a good discussion.

Side reins for beginners have some great value. I think in the US, a lot of trainers use them on the lunge for beginners, with reins usually tied up so the rider is working on their balance and seat. I can’t say I’ve seen or heard of any using them for riders riding around the arena, but know it’s common in Europe. And they’ve certainly got a lot on us in terms of riding skills and horsemanship, so I won’t knock them!

Most trainers, again at least that I’ve been exposed to, for young riders are H/J or western trainers, and the ones I saw in H/J land don’t often focus on basics like position and being a tactful rider, but rather focus on getting kids jumping ASAP so they can go show. So frankly, anything that encourages better riding by beginners (of any age) is appreciated by me! I know I spent many years on the lunge line as a kid, and I’m grateful for it.

#38

Thank you Nestor!! And just for me so that I can get it right in the future… Do I understand that right??? If I am interested in a topic and would like to discuss it, its not ok to use old threads about it??? I then have to open up a new thread even if there are old ones?? Will do that from now on… Sorry I did not know that…

And here a very very cute video about kids riding in side reins… Its a series for lesson horses. Its very prestigious and the kids (by the way not any of those kids are rich) train hard for it…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTmUX2mVOXY

And as I said before, I do have a reason for being interested why side reins are not used in the US… IMO it really helps beginners to focus on their seat and the aids without the need to worry how to manage the horse… That comes later.

There is an interesting video of two kids riding the same dressage test. One with side reins and one without. and you can see a difference…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXFkpkfvenk

#39

It’s just confusing if you post a new question in the middle of an older thread. People are more likely to see and respond to the original poster who may not even be around anymore.

1 Like
#40

Ok, sorry I didn’t think about it and will never do it again, because now I know!

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