Long term soundness would be one of my biggest fears. I have owned OTTB not straight off the track and they can break your heart.
[QUOTE=soloudinhere;8649792]
I wouldn’t do this.
I see you’ve already decided you want a mare. So you’re already going with an idea of what the “perfect horse” will be and will be matching horses up with your idea of black beauty.
Bad plan.[/QUOTE]
This was my thought. If you are looking for the “perfect” horse, I would toss everything out the window except behavior, movement, conformation.
Gender, color, markings, etc… yes, they are nice to have on the “I want” list but if you are serious about the “challenge” look at every single available horse, regardless of gender or color. You might end up missing your perfect horse because he was a gelding…
And a quick PS.
If you do go through with this arrangement and the resulting lease, read very carefully the lease wording that you can terminate the lease if this isn’t the horse you thought it would be; either not sound, nuts, too much horse, etc.
If the lease is such that you’re still stuck paying for the lease regardless of the horse, you’re no better of than if you’d just bought the horse yourself. Also make sure horse care/vet expenses are very clearly specified… who pays for what and how much and who makes expensive decisions. Who decides the horse gets colic surgery or not and who pays for it? Who decides the horse should be euthanized? Who decides the horse isn’t working out and you want out?
These folks might be your friends but you are in a position to be taken advantage of as you don’t have the funds or experience to go this alone. Just make sure you are looking out for your best financial, emotional and physical interests…
I don’t know what “intermediate rider” means.
If you are in a lesson program, it might mean that you can walk, trot, canter and do a cross rail (in this case, you are compared to a beginner).
If you are around a lot of pros and high-end competitors, you might call yourself an intermediate forever, because you aren’t a pro (in this case, you are compared to a really high end advanced rider).
I have stayed off young OTTBs, but I’ve watched a number of riders (young or pro) try to school them. Here is what I’d say you need to survive:
Can you ride out a big athletic buck?
Can you ride out a big rear?
Can you ride out a huge spook, or a spook/spin/bolt?
Can you deal with a bolt?
More importantly, can you ride proactively so that the horse does not do anything of these things? IME, pros can do this; ammies, not so much.
How many times can you fall off without losing your nerve? You may think this isn’t a bit deal, but if you fall off every time you ride, you are soon not wanting to get on again.
Can you deal with high-jinks on the ground, a horse that will prance and buck when you are hand-walking it? Or that bites and kicks while being groomed? Do you have skills in ground work? There’s a recent thread right now on “horse care” about the OTTB “fake biter” and what to do. Canyou deal with a horse that might fence walk in pasture or turnout, or crib or weave in its stall? Do you understand how to treat ulcers (most race horses have them, apparently)>
As far as training:
How much do you know about getting a horse to reach for the bit, stretch, go forward in walk and trot? Balance? Lateral work? How much direct instruction can you get on this from your trainer?
As far as proving to yourself and others that you are a good rider:
Let’s say your training program, or the horse’s attitude, requires that for the first year, you do only walk and trot exercises. Let’s say you can’t get the canter balanced for another year, so no jumping. How long are you going to feel like a good rider? How long before you start to doubt your abilities and wish you had a more finished horse?
Or worse: let’s say that your horses starts showing some behavior problems that inconvenience other riders (bucking, bolting, rearing, tossing you off and careening loose around the arena, or balking or kicking) and embarass you. Let’s say everyone at the barn is saying (to your face and behind your back) that you are over-horsed and a danger to society. How thick is your skin? Can you persevere? On the other hand, do you know when to quit, when you are in over your head?
I’ve seen a number of people take on OTTBs in the past 5 years. One person has made hers into a decent riding horse.
You might do really well, or you might not.
I also think the idea of putting the horse out to pasture for 6 months or a year is a good one, and I am surprised your trainer hasn’t suggested it. I thought it was a rather standard thing to do, as you really don’t want to get on a horse that was racing full out last week and knows only that.
[QUOTE=Where’sMyWhite;8650144]
And a quick PS.
If you do go through with this arrangement and the resulting lease, read very carefully the lease wording that you can terminate the lease if this isn’t the horse you thought it would be; either not sound, nuts, too much horse, etc.
If the lease is such that you’re still stuck paying for the lease regardless of the horse, you’re no better of than if you’d just bought the horse yourself. Also make sure horse care/vet expenses are very clearly specified… who pays for what and how much and who makes expensive decisions. Who decides the horse gets colic surgery or not and who pays for it? Who decides the horse should be euthanized? Who decides the horse isn’t working out and you want out?
These folks might be your friends but you are in a position to be taken advantage of as you don’t have the funds or experience to go this alone. Just make sure you are looking out for your best financial, emotional and physical interests…[/QUOTE]
This times a million. First, make sure you have a lease agreement. I don’t care how good the friends are, you need one. Then make sure said lease agreement covers every possible scenario. And, something you may not think of, what happens if the horse does end up being amazing and someone offers your friends, the actual owners of the horse, a lot of money for it?
Really, really think about this. I know the pull of a horse, heck I could have seen myself coming up with this idea at some point in my life. But, there are a whole lot more ways this can go badly than go well. And, are you prepared to lose your friend if this goes badly?
[QUOTE=Scribbler;8650450]
I don’t know what “intermediate rider” means.
If you are in a lesson program, it might mean that you can walk, trot, canter and do a cross rail (in this case, you are compared to a beginner).
If you are around a lot of pros and high-end competitors, you might call yourself an intermediate forever, because you aren’t a pro (in this case, you are compared to a really high end advanced rider).
I have stayed off young OTTBs, but I’ve watched a number of riders (young or pro) try to school them. Here is what I’d say you need to survive:
Can you ride out a big athletic buck?
Can you ride out a big rear?
Can you ride out a huge spook, or a spook/spin/bolt?
Can you deal with a bolt?
More importantly, can you ride proactively so that the horse does not do anything of these things? IME, pros can do this; ammies, not so much.
How many times can you fall off without losing your nerve? You may think this isn’t a bit deal, but if you fall off every time you ride, you are soon not wanting to get on again.
Can you deal with high-jinks on the ground, a horse that will prance and buck when you are hand-walking it? Or that bites and kicks while being groomed? Do you have skills in ground work? There’s a recent thread right now on “horse care” about the OTTB “fake biter” and what to do. Canyou deal with a horse that might fence walk in pasture or turnout, or crib or weave in its stall? Do you understand how to treat ulcers (most race horses have them, apparently)>
As far as training:
How much do you know about getting a horse to reach for the bit, stretch, go forward in walk and trot? Balance? Lateral work? How much direct instruction can you get on this from your trainer?
As far as proving to yourself and others that you are a good rider:
Let’s say your training program, or the horse’s attitude, requires that for the first year, you do only walk and trot exercises. Let’s say you can’t get the canter balanced for another year, so no jumping. How long are you going to feel like a good rider? How long before you start to doubt your abilities and wish you had a more finished horse?
Or worse: let’s say that your horses starts showing some behavior problems that inconvenience other riders (bucking, bolting, rearing, tossing you off and careening loose around the arena, or balking or kicking) and embarass you. Let’s say everyone at the barn is saying (to your face and behind your back) that you are over-horsed and a danger to society. How thick is your skin? Can you persevere? On the other hand, do you know when to quit, when you are in over your head?
I’ve seen a number of people take on OTTBs in the past 5 years. One person has made hers into a decent riding horse.
You might do really well, or you might not.
I also think the idea of putting the horse out to pasture for 6 months or a year is a good one, and I am surprised your trainer hasn’t suggested it. I thought it was a rather standard thing to do, as you really don’t want to get on a horse that was racing full out last week and knows only that.[/QUOTE]
More than all of the above…do you have Patience. Can you stay relaxed when you are sitting on a tense horse ready to explode. Do you have VERY good and forgiving hands. Don’t panic or get afraid when a bit (or a lot) out of control. Can you instill confidence in your horse? And know when to back off the pressure?
There are a LOT of top advanced riders who do not have the skills needed to re-train an OTTB or start a green horse. They are great skills to have but a lot of the skills are not really things you learn so much as the type of rider and person that you already are.
…my understanding was that Suffolk Downs is largely closed?
Haven’t read the rest of the post or replies, just was very thrown off by you going to SD to look. I’m from MA and had to go to PA to get my boy from Penn National because there weren’t a lot of local TBs being sold directly off the track.
(Started this post prior to reading the same highlights in LaurenDrew’s post - sorry!)
There won’t be any horses at Suffolk when you go unfortunately. Racing is limited to a couple of two- and three-day showcases this year. My mare came from Suffolk and I wouldn’t have gone to buy her without the 30 years of experience under my belt.
I would have your trainer look around to find a local trainer who takes youngsters off the track and puts AT LEAST the basics into them. And hopefully someone who “lets them down” for a few months (the more months, the better the outcome I’ve found!). Someone who deals with OTTBs on a daily basis.
Just wanted to throw in my $.02 that Suffolk is not the place to go any more.
You’ve been given lots of good advice here. The thing that stands out to me is that you’ve already settled on a mare which weeds out tons and tons of very talented and, in most cases, much more cooperative geldings. I know you have an ideal horse in your mind, but the more you open your mind, the better off of horse you will find.
My first horse was an OTTB, but not directly off the track. He was given a 4 month let down period just hanging out in a field, and then retrained under saddle by a professional for about 3 months before I bought him. It turned out to be a perfect match, but definitely on the edge of my learning curve. If you look at restarted horses, you will be able to get a better idea of how good their mind is, which is the most important part in my opinion.
Another problem with directly off the track is, I believe you can not vet them in advance. The best money you’ll ever spend on a horse is the pre-purchase vet exam. Don’t buy a horse without it.
I love TB’s. They are so smart and most have a fantastic work ethic, but please only consider ones that have already been retrained. I’ve seen people who’ve come home with too much horse, and it isn’t pretty.
I was 15 when I got my first ottb. I shouldn’t have gotten it. I didn’t know what I was doing and I thought I did. Luckily for me, I did buy the horse from someone who sources tb’s from the track, so I ended up with a sweet gelding. If I had gone to the track, I have no idea what I would have ended up with. Probably a monster.
Please please please consider buying a horse that has had a let down period, that’s been restarted a little. You will be greatful.
I’m an excersize rider. Out of 80+ two year olds that I’m around 6 days a week (this doesn’t even include out 40+ older horses that I only see in passing) there is only 1 horse that I would take that I know would make a really nice event horse. There’s a couple more that would do it, but mentally it would take a lot of work and I know the physical issues they are already having as 2 year olds. 1 horse out of 80! Remember that. Im a mare person I ride 10 filly’s a day plus my own mare. The only horse I would take is a colt.
Also, when looking at horses from trainers at the track. They will lie to you. They will lie straight to your face. If you ask if the horse is sound they will say yes. They won’t tell you that its knees, hocks, stifles, ankles have been injected and that its done a tendon unless you specifically ask those questions. They don’t have all day to help you. You might get to look at a horse for 10 min if you’re lucky. You won’t get to ride it, lunge it or see it canter.
Be careful, ask good educated questions. People have given you some good advice on here, even though they don’t know you, they have your best interest at heart.
Please consider looking at horses that have been restarted or are at a rescue.
Being able to select a horse from the track is d.i.f.f.i.c.u.l.t. You don’t have a lot of time to look at the horses and are usually limited in what you can see and inspect. Do you have a keen eye for conformation? Can you spot a soundness issue? I sure hope the trainer going with you does and can.
Have you ever retrained an OTTB or worked with one that wasn’t straight from the track but after their initial let down from a seller or even from a rescue? I would suggest getting some experience before getting a fresh off the track prospect.
As everyone else has said be careful. Have you gone over what this lease situation would look like? Do all parties agree on the terms? Are you able to afford all the associated costs you are expected? I would have a contract drawn up and ready to sign with terms pre-agreed to prior to ever looking for a horse.
And, many already stated before, don’t get caught up in “this is what my dream horse will look like”.
OP, listen to what everyone is saying. They are right.
Over the years, I’ve retrained 3 mares whom I bought straight off the track, and even with my years of experience riding all sorts of horses, they still were a challenge for me. I understand why you want a mare, I am a (small) mare person too, but you can find a really nice mare somewhere else.
My 18 yo (bought as a 3 yo at Suffolk Downs) is a great ride for me, but it took a lot of work, patience, and riding skills to get her there. Even now, the advanced riders around me won’t get on her, having seen what she can do on her “bad” days.
So, no, don’t do it…yet.
WAIT…are you sure you’re going to Suffolk?!! The track is closed for racing… are they still training there? We’re in the market for another OTTB and planning to go to Finger Lakes.
I’ve bought 4 OTTB’s right off the track and DD purchased #5 on her own about 18 months ago. Some were fantastic, some were soundness nightmares…but I’ve never regretted a one. That said… it’s not for everyone. You need to have great riding skills, tons of support via trainer/program (plan on lots and lots of lessons and training), unlimited patience and a strong sense of humor… If you’re not prepared financially to care for this horse for 20 years, sound or unsound… vet, vet, vet, VET.
I think this is so telling and eye-opening.
Suffolk Downs is closed for live racing except for a few special races. Not the place to go to buy an OTTB. There may still be a few around on the farm with trainers. If you are serious about finding one, contact the CANTER New England site: http://canterusa.org/new-england/ and ask them for advice.
It has always been better to work through organizations like CANTER because they’ve watched the horses, know the trainers and can steer you toward a suitable horse. You might also try Nevins farm (MSPCA) as they often have OTTBs, many of whom have been started in programs by fosters. I know some of the people who take and foster those horses and they do a terrific job.
I used to foster horses for CANTER and I still own one of them 12 years later. You are MUCH better off finding a horse that’s been let down and restarted as it will be a lot easier to evaluate the horse’s talents and it’s soundness. Sometimes when you get a horse off the track they are so body sore that you don’t really know what you’ve got for a few months. Hey Mickey is right. Without an inside contact and a really, really good PPE, you have no idea what you are getting and yes, they will lie to you. As my vet says, track soundness is a bit different from hunter soundness. If the horse can run, but has a hitch in its gait from an old (or current) injury, it’s fine on the track but a bust as a dressage horse or hunter. My own TB was retired at 6 with a sesamoid fracture and a tweaked suspensory. I was given access to the owners who wanted to find the horse a good non-racing home. I also fostered him for six months before adopting him, so I knew that he could stand up to the job I wanted – mentally and physically. I know many people who weren’t so lucky and the ended up with horses that had underlying soundness issues or, frankly, were a bit mental. Some people still think my TB is a bit mental, but for me he’s a safe, fun ride and I can deal with the bouncing, the cribbing and the fact that he needs to live out 24/7. Lots of horses come off the track with stable vices such as cribbing or weaving, and that can make them a bit harder to place.
Restarting an OTTB is fun (I’ve restarted four), but in my experience (and I’m just an ammy with somewhat limited time, but an experienced rider), it always takes longer than you think it will.
Why not go here and check these horses out instead? For $800, you could have your “dream horse” without half the gambling of picking from the race track. All the horses have been restarted, are sound, and are suitable for adoption. Many of them look at least potentially B circuit level horses after some training and finishing. If I was going to get an OTTB, I’d honestly would avoid the track and go through an adoption agency. There’s a lot of horses here who are intermediate level appropriate and you wouldn’t need to send him or her to your friend’s mom for work.
Your plan sounds like a money pit, as well as extremely dangerous.
If it weren’t for OTTBs, I would not have had horses as a kid and young adult. My budget was limited and my parents expected me to train my own horses and ponies from the get-go. I got my first OTTB at age 14, which was my move up horse from ponies. I was admittedly a tough and good rider - I broke and trained ponies and had started a few tbs at that age. That horse was a terrible bucker off the jumps and now I realize she probably had kissing spine. We sold her and then got another OTTB that turned out to be a top green then later junior hunter at the A Shows. Family rule was that I had to sell my horses when I went to college and that mare paid for college tuition and more.
I got out of horses while in college/grad school/untenured years. At age 30 I got another OTTB, right off the track. He had raced the day before. That horse turned out to be a CCI*** horse. He was not easy but he was talented and scopey as all get out.
Since then I have had at least 6 OTTBs and none have been dangerous or fractious. But it is possible they could have become that way if not ridden tactfully and in a solid training program. My experience is that the temperaments of OTTBs vary widely. Some are truly dead quiet, others are not. Check out the reputations of the sellers before you go look at their horses and seek out those who have good reputations.
And be ready to let the horse go if she isn’t suitable. Sounds like the OP is not going to own the horse anyway.
OP you can also go on Facebook and find OTTBs for not very much money that have been let down. I would look at a LOT of horses before you buy one. So many first timers go out and buy the first pretty face they see. Do not do that. Buy the horse, not the face, the color, the name, the forelock or the tail. You want a sweet solid citizen that stands quietly when mounted and on the ground.
http://www.horseadoption.com/horseprofiles/sharp-miss/
This one looks great. She’s in Ohio, but I would definitely go take a look if I was looking to buy a tb (I’m in MI).
What are you going to do if the horse doesn’t work out? Do you have any kind of plan for that scenario? What if you get seriously hurt?
I’ve fallen off a galloping horse before (Arabian, not Thoroughbred) and even though she was small (I always fall off mares, not geldings, which tells you something) I still ended up concussed for five days with a helmet on and tore my hip flexor. Had to got to Physical Therapy, take two weeks off from riding, and I still have a click in that leg from the injury.
If you get a horse right off the track, this scenario could easily become a daily occurrence for you. You are either going to end up with a really expensive pasture pet, dump it at auction, or potentially end up getting killed.
Why risk it? You don’t need a race horse to make yourself a good rider.
Good luck picking one out at the track. After my OTTB of 15 years died, I tried shopping CANTER horses at the track. The horses were walked and trotted for me, and I could not see anything that made me want to pick one over another. None of them stood out to me in any way. I ended up buying a horse that I was able to test ride first.
Getting my first two OTTBs given to me was much easier, I didn’t have to choose and it worked out pretty well. My first one did like to buck some; I didn’t know I could ride a buck until I had him. I always was glad that I wasn’t watching someone else ride him while he was bucking; thought I might be scared to get on him again.
[QUOTE=Scribbler;8650450]
I don’t know what “intermediate rider” means.
If you are in a lesson program, it might mean that you can walk, trot, canter and do a cross rail (in this case, you are compared to a beginner).
If you are around a lot of pros and high-end competitors, you might call yourself an intermediate forever, because you aren’t a pro (in this case, you are compared to a really high end advanced rider).
I have stayed off young OTTBs, but I’ve watched a number of riders (young or pro) try to school them. Here is what I’d say you need to survive:
Can you ride out a big athletic buck?
Can you ride out a big rear?
Can you ride out a huge spook, or a spook/spin/bolt?
Can you deal with a bolt?
More importantly, can you ride proactively so that the horse does not do anything of these things? IME, pros can do this; ammies, not so much.
How many times can you fall off without losing your nerve? You may think this isn’t a bit deal, but if you fall off every time you ride, you are soon not wanting to get on again.
Can you deal with high-jinks on the ground, a horse that will prance and buck when you are hand-walking it? Or that bites and kicks while being groomed? Do you have skills in ground work? There’s a recent thread right now on “horse care” about the OTTB “fake biter” and what to do. Canyou deal with a horse that might fence walk in pasture or turnout, or crib or weave in its stall? Do you understand how to treat ulcers (most race horses have them, apparently)>
As far as training:
How much do you know about getting a horse to reach for the bit, stretch, go forward in walk and trot? Balance? Lateral work? How much direct instruction can you get on this from your trainer?
As far as proving to yourself and others that you are a good rider:
Let’s say your training program, or the horse’s attitude, requires that for the first year, you do only walk and trot exercises. Let’s say you can’t get the canter balanced for another year, so no jumping. How long are you going to feel like a good rider? How long before you start to doubt your abilities and wish you had a more finished horse?
Or worse: let’s say that your horses starts showing some behavior problems that inconvenience other riders (bucking, bolting, rearing, tossing you off and careening loose around the arena, or balking or kicking) and embarass you. Let’s say everyone at the barn is saying (to your face and behind your back) that you are over-horsed and a danger to society. How thick is your skin? Can you persevere? On the other hand, do you know when to quit, when you are in over your head?
I’ve seen a number of people take on OTTBs in the past 5 years. One person has made hers into a decent riding horse.
You might do really well, or you might not.
I also think the idea of putting the horse out to pasture for 6 months or a year is a good one, and I am surprised your trainer hasn’t suggested it. I thought it was a rather standard thing to do, as you really don’t want to get on a horse that was racing full out last week and knows only that.[/QUOTE]
I can do WAY more than just riding in a lesson program. I have trained an abused mare to jump 3’9" been riding for 6 years, trained a 5 year old, working with many horses, mostly young ones. I have sat bucks, bolts, rears, and even been taken off with on a trail once or twice. I have jumped up to 4’0" on a young horse and have ridden W/T/C/G on fields, bareback, in the arena, etc. I have been thrown miultiple times and no matter how much my body hurts I get back on to make sure that the horse does not learn bad habits. I only take private lessons with my own trainer and horse because I feel its more beneficial. She can help me with everything you mentioned and I have experience in it myslef as well. On the ground, I usually have dealt with my past mare who was an absolute demon on ground, but after 2 years of working with her she hardly had an issues. I dont give up easy. If I start feeling like a bad rider or horse person it makes me want to work harder to prove to myself that I am. I try for as long as it takes and I cant remeber one time I ever gave up. Luckily, with the help of a trainer I have some assistance and someone to tell me when to stop and take a break if I’m over my head. I am in high school (all-girls) and drama and rumors are everywhere. I could care less what other people say. If they say that I can’t do it or am a danger I’ll make sure that when I finally do get it right they are there to see it. I’m not a whiner or a quitter. When something gets hard, I just get motivated. But maybe, at the end of the day…after reading all these posts over and over I am entering into something that may be over my head. As much as I want a young OTTB, I can always look somewhere else and find someone better.
