My filly was clipped so long ago I don’t see how anyone could tell the difference between being clipped and shedding out normally.
We never clip anything on our foals and we don’t clip the muzzles or eye brows of any of our horses. THEY SERVE A PURPOSE - THEY FEEL WITH THEM.
Correct me if I’m wrong but in the EU, I don’t believe face clipping is permitted and they are not permitted to clip inside the ears.
We live in the NE and by the solstice in June the babies are starting to grow their winter coats so we would never clip them If they have to much baby hair we use the pumice blocs to groom it off.
And an inspector you can’t judge a youngster with face hairs and a baby coat - shouldn’t be judging at all.
I’ll never understand the Hunter people - they want their horses to be clipped to the skin and no facial hair or ear hair. It’s so stupid - any Field Hunter worth it’s weight in the field would never look like a Chihuahua!! I had one of our Welsh boys and a GRP boy come back from a trainer and they were scalped to the skin. It was actually painful for them. Never allow that again.
As far as braiding - we trim the mane on the foals (we never pull) and don’t braid. We’ve seen too many foal at our inspections that are braided and spend the entire time in the ring - wringing their heads and necks and they don’t move out enough to get a good score. I like the stand up baby manes anyway!
Unless it was for the health/comfort reasons that some other posters have mentioned, I would never clip a foal. I just bathe them and braid the mane.
I have been to many inspections over the years as an exhibitor. We live in Colorado where the babies are ususally born in , May and June because of our late winters (This year we had 8" of snow one day in the beginning of May)…So my babies usually are in the Yack stage. To get rid of the foal fuzz is really easy. Spray Skin so Soft mixed with water on them head to toe . 1st it acts as a great fly repellant(so we start as soon as the flys are a problem) and second it loosens the fuzz and as you get them used to bathing for the “big event” the hair will fall off with the help of grooming and warm water. By our inspections in Sept even the foals born in June are sleak with gorgeous coats. I NEVER clip the foals but the mare could be shown on the line… Clip, bathe, pulled manes and braided (no long ugly braids in rubber bands please!!!). CLEAN TACK on the mare and well fitting light weight leather halter on the foals. If the foal’s halter is too big and flaps around it will make them carry their head funny and change their gait. PS if you ever notice German horses they usually do not clip muzzles, so don’t bother if you don’t want to, but I always clip up the mares.
[QUOTE=ise@ssl;5759952]
We never clip anything on our foals and we don’t clip the muzzles or eye brows of any of our horses. THEY SERVE A PURPOSE - THEY FEEL WITH THEM.
Correct me if I’m wrong but in the EU, I don’t believe face clipping is permitted and they are not permitted to clip inside the ears.
We live in the NE and by the solstice in June the babies are starting to grow their winter coats so we would never clip them If they have to much baby hair we use the pumice blocs to groom it off.
And an inspector you can’t judge a youngster with face hairs and a baby coat - shouldn’t be judging at all.
I’ll never understand the Hunter people - they want their horses to be clipped to the skin and no facial hair or ear hair. It’s so stupid - any Field Hunter worth it’s weight in the field would never look like a Chihuahua!! I had one of our Welsh boys and a GRP boy come back from a trainer and they were scalped to the skin. It was actually painful for them. Never allow that again.
As far as braiding - we trim the mane on the foals (we never pull) and don’t braid. We’ve seen too many foal at our inspections that are braided and spend the entire time in the ring - wringing their heads and necks and they don’t move out enough to get a good score. I like the stand up baby manes anyway![/QUOTE]
I think I would be very careful in throwing the word “stupid” around in describing a grooming regimen different than yours. The American system has always been one that included trimming faces, ears, fetlocks on show horses. I have bern doing it for 40+ years, and NEVER has a horse injured themselves because they don’t have eye/muzzle whiskers. Nor do I know of any that have. Do what you want with YOUR horses, but don’t be slamming those of us who do things differently. And very successfully as well.
Well Laurie - the HUNTERS have morphed so far from the Hunting horses that I do stand behind my remarks about clipping horses to the skin for every show. And they do need their ear hair for protection - as they do need they eyebrow feelers and muzzler feelers. Good for you that you’ve had no injuries - that does not apply to all horses.
If horses didn’t need fetlock hairs (for protection), feelers (for protection) and hair in their ears (for protection) why hasn’t that hair disappeared on it’s own.
I’ve never seen a difference in how a horse competes in a hunter class based on whether they were shaved or not.
[QUOTE=ise@ssl;5760574]
Well Laurie - the HUNTERS have morphed so far from the Hunting horses that I do stand behind my remarks about clipping horses to the skin for every show. And they do need their ear hair for protection - as they do need they eyebrow feelers and muzzler feelers. Good for you that you’ve had no injuries - that does not apply to all horses.
If horses didn’t need fetlock hairs (for protection), feelers (for protection) and hair in their ears (for protection) why hasn’t that hair disappeared on it’s own.
I’ve never seen a difference in how a horse competes in a hunter class based on whether they were shaved or not.[/QUOTE]
When they were wild horses, out in all weather, grazing among cactus, tumbleweeds and briars, perhaps they did. But the horses of today, in mown pastures/stalls, do not. Please, give me an example of a horse harmed by trimming his eye/muzzle whiskers. I beg you. An injury DIRECTLY ATTRIBUTABLE to that procedure. Ears are a matter of choice. I see gnat bites in unclipped ears, so the protection is not fool proof. Flymasks are the best invention the industry has seen recently, and give perfect protection to the ears, even if shaved.
People who disagree with you are NOT STUPID. The simply disagree. I would no more take an unkempt horse to a show than I would fly to the moon. But that is MY system. You are free to pursue yours without being called stupid, but the statements about horses NEEDING these feelers in this day and age are simply not true. Nor fetlock hair.
Where has anyone said it makes a difference in performance? Now that is an, um, interesting conclusion. It has to do with pride in turnout, and not wanting the horses in my care look like they just came in from the field. And I do it on jumpers as well, because it improves their appearance, IMO, and does absolutely no harm.
And that hair probably WILL disappear in anothe 10,000 years. Evolution being a rather slow moving phenomenon.
Thanks to everyone for the comments. My colt will be going to inspection l’natural this year. I did not even think about it with my filly three years ago, I just clipped her like I would a show horse going to a show and had no idea it was so controversial. My three year old, on the other hand, will go clipped because I keep her clipped now that she is in training and she will look silly with a half grown beard. Thank you again and best of luck to all those who still have inspections to attend.
In Germany clipping whiskers and trimming ears is against the law so if you have German judges at inspections they would naturally not like to see this done to foals or mares.
[QUOTE=ise@ssl;5760574]
Well Laurie - the HUNTERS have morphed so far from the Hunting horses that I do stand behind my remarks about clipping horses to the skin for every show. And they do need their ear hair for protection - as they do need they eyebrow feelers and muzzler feelers. Good for you that you’ve had no injuries - that does not apply to all horses.
If horses didn’t need fetlock hairs (for protection), feelers (for protection) and hair in their ears (for protection) why hasn’t that hair disappeared on it’s own.
I’ve never seen a difference in how a horse competes in a hunter class based on whether they were shaved or not.[/QUOTE]
Humans don’t need an appendix, but it’s still there. :winkgrin:
You’re not going to hurt them by trimming the outside ear hair or hair from the fetlocks. I agree that whiskers should be left alone though.
My husband has a mustache most of the time but does shave it once in a while.
Next time he shaves it off I will be sure to check him for injuries and report back 
I do know of several HUMAN injuries attributable to grooms/riders/trainers wrestling unwilling horses to have their ears/bridle paths/whiskers clipped. Grooms found unconscious in stalls, busted lips, broken fingers, etc. I also know horses injured in the attempt to avoid these procedures. And horses who’s ears you cannot touch because people have wrestled them so many times trying to clip the oh, so horribly offensive tiny tufts of horse hair.
Anyone who has been around the block enough in my area knows many horses who’s trust in humans has been damaged by wrestling matches involving twitches and drugs to get horses to submit to clipping ears, especially, but other parts too.
You are absolutely correct that it is all about human pride/fashion. And not about good sense, what is good for the horse, or what is good for the horse handlers that can be injured dealing with seriously unhappy horses.
Some breeds of horses are up on pads, with tail sets, etc for the sake of human pride. Some get their tails alcohol ‘blocked’ for human pride. Some get their nosebands cranked to rawness and numbness for human pride.
Anyone who has worked as a groom professionally has seen the damage done to horses for the sake of human pride.
The horseman I respect do not take pride into account when caring for their horses.
in the dictionary pride includes the following
vanity, self-importance, hubris, conceit, conceitedness, self-love, self-adulation, self-admiration, narcissism, egotism, superciliousness, haughtiness, snobbery, snobbishness; informal big-headedness; literary vainglory. ANTONYMS modesty, humility.
I was a professional groom before going back to school. Sorry…but the good grooms didn’t wrestle horses or do damage EVER for this. If a horse was that resistant to being clipped and I had one GP jumper in my care who was…we didn’t clip them. (and often those horses had a bit of a screw loose and were difficult for just about everything). But the vast majority of horses could care less…and could be trimmed up in their stalls without a halter.
So honestly…to say this is a big deal is a big exaggeration IMO. It is a matter of preference.
[QUOTE=Isabeau Z Solace;5761750]
I do know of several HUMAN injuries attributable to grooms/riders/trainers wrestling unwilling horses to have their ears/bridle paths/whiskers clipped. Grooms found unconscious in stalls, busted lips, broken fingers, etc. I also know horses injured in the attempt to avoid these procedures. And horses who’s ears you cannot touch because people have wrestled them so many times trying to clip the oh, so horribly offensive tiny tufts of horse hair.
Anyone who has been around the block enough in my area knows many horses who’s trust in humans has been damaged by wrestling matches involving twitches and drugs to get horses to submit to clipping ears, especially, but other parts too.
You are absolutely correct that it is all about human pride/fashion. And not about good sense, what is good for the horse, or what is good for the horse handlers that can be injured dealing with seriously unhappy horses.
Some breeds of horses are up on pads, with tail sets, etc for the sake of human pride. Some get their tails alcohol ‘blocked’ for human pride. Some get their nosebands cranked to rawness and numbness for human pride.
Anyone who has worked as a groom professionally has seen the damage done to horses for the sake of human pride. The horseman I respect do not take pride into account when caring for their horses.
in the dictionary pride includes the following
vanity, self-importance, hubris, conceit, conceitedness, self-love, self-adulation, self-admiration, narcissism, egotism, superciliousness, haughtiness, snobbery, snobbishness; informal big-headedness; literary vainglory. ANTONYMS modesty, humility.[/QUOTE]
Oh, puh-leeze. Are you for real??? If you don’t want to do it, don’t. I will continue, and hope that all of my poor, terrified, ear-shy, twitch-shy, neurotic horses can somehow get through their day. I pulled manes and trimmed FOUR today!! Oh, the horror! Be sure to watch for them as they slink off the trailer. You will know me by my busted up face. NOT. Carry on. You won’t be changing my mind on this matter.
And the horse we present for inspection this month WILL be trimmed to the nines and be braided with hunter braids.
I don’t clip anything…just get white suff as clean as I can so it looks white. Breeding pintos…that can be a job unto itself. The babies halter and lead well enough except for one year with one 8 week old colt. He was bound and deternmined haltering was torture. Just getting a halter on him the morning of the inspection was an ordeal in the stall. Getting it back on in a ring when let loose was something I did not want to contemplate…so he is the only foal I have not UN haltered in the ring. I told the judge I was not talking it off as it would proably take 30 minutes to get it back ON him in the open.
This goes to show that for every cause there’s a crusader. Before now, did I know that clipping was so offensive? Nope. You live, you learn…
However, the argument could be made that showing our horses at all (much less getting on and riding them) is all for our selfish prideful interests and not for the horse (who, after all, may prefer to just graze green pastures). Since we’re all here, I think we’re more or less on board with the showing/riding of horses and it’s clearly a straw man argument.
I think it’s important for US-based horses to be exposed to clipping/mane pulling/etc as foals/young horses. The end result: horses that are familiar with the rigors of the competition world (even if they don’t end up there) and thus can be marketed to that audience.
[QUOTE=HickoryHill;5761391]
In Germany clipping whiskers and trimming ears is against the law so if you have German judges at inspections they would naturally not like to see this done to foals or mares.[/QUOTE]
That’s true…
and by the way, after presenting foals for many years now in Germany, the commission knows quality, whether the foal is clipped or not doesn’t make any difference in their opinion…
Count me in as one of those “stupid” hunter people. I swore I would not contribute to this thread but since the way a horse is “turned out” is a HUGE pet peeve of mine I just cannot help myself.
First of all, to each his own. I know alot of people that do not like to clip or pull manes and that’s fine with me. If your horse is presented clean and suitable to his/her discipline, I don’t care how it is turned out and I won’t look down on you or tell you that you are wrong because you didn’t do it “my” way. I’ve been a groom at WEF and also a barn manager for a foxhunting barn and in both situations top notch turnout was expected. Although my foxhunters were not braided, except for the really big formal days, they were bathed and clipped, manes pulled and tails in a mud knot twice a week.
Now, I breed foals for the hunter market and I use inspections and any horse shows I may attend as opportuntites to take pictures, videos, etc for marketing so I want my foals (and the mares too) clipped, braided, etc and looking like they were ready to walk into the ring at Devon. Whether I agree with clipping, braiding, etc is irrelevant since I’m selling these foals to the hunter market and I know darn well they WILL be clipped, braided, etc in the future. It’s so much easier to teach them it’s not a big deal when they are little. Plus, although the inspector may be able to look past all the hair, etc I’m not confident my buyers will. Some of them sure but not all of them. I think as a hunter breeder it shows a level of respect for myself and for the inspector (or the judge, or the person coming to look at potentially buying one of my foals, etc) to turn my horse out as best as I know how. It IS a level of pride…I take pride in the foals I produce and I want to show it.
BTW, I’ve never had an inspector comment on my foals being clipped or braided in any negative way…as a matter of fact, I just finished body clipping a filly for next week’s inspection although it was done more for the show I’m thinking about taking her to next month…and she looks fantastic!
[QUOTE=NorthHillFarm;5762680]
Count me in as one of those “stupid” hunter people. I swore I would not contribute to this thread but since the way a horse is “turned out” is a HUGE pet peeve of mine I just cannot help myself.
First of all, to each his own. I know alot of people that do not like to clip or pull manes and that’s fine with me. If your horse is presented clean and suitable to his/her discipline, I don’t care how it is turned out and I won’t look down on you or tell you that you are wrong because you didn’t do it “my” way. I’ve been a groom at WEF and also a barn manager for a foxhunting barn and in both situations top notch turnout was expected. Although my foxhunters were not braided, except for the really big formal days, they were bathed and clipped, manes pulled and tails in a mud knot twice a week.
Now, I breed foals for the hunter market and I use inspections and any horse shows I may attend as opportuntites to take pictures, videos, etc for marketing so I want my foals (and the mares too) clipped, braided, etc and looking like they were ready to walk into the ring at Devon. Whether I agree with clipping, braiding, etc is irrelevant since I’m selling these foals to the hunter market and I know darn well they WILL be clipped, braided, etc in the future. It’s so much easier to teach them it’s not a big deal when they are little. Plus, although the inspector may be able to look past all the hair, etc I’m not confident my buyers will. Some of them sure but not all of them. I think as a hunter breeder it shows a level of respect for myself and for the inspector (or the judge, or the person coming to look at potentially buying one of my foals, etc) to turn my horse out as best as I know how. It IS a level of pride…I take pride in the foals I produce and I want to show it.
BTW, I’ve never had an inspector comment on my foals being clipped or braided in any negative way…as a matter of fact, I just finished body clipping a filly for next week’s inspection although it was done more for the show I’m thinking about taking her to next month…and she looks fantastic![/QUOTE]
I agree 100%. Our buyers come mostly from the hunter jumper market as well and most will expect them to be freshly clipped. I also use my inspection photos/ videos as marketing material.
Last year the did inspector commented that he liked the natural look best on the foals. I think it comes down to personal preference. I like to clip mine because I want to be the one who introduces clipping to them first. I want to make sure that their first experience goes as smoothly as possible so that they are less likely to be “wrestled” by someone one else in the future. I just clipped my 3 month old who practically stood ground tied for the experience.
Just like anything else is all comes down to personal preference. While I don’t look down on someone who does not clip their foals, I certainly don’t feel I should be penalized for it at the inspection either. To each his own.
[QUOTE=Sheila A;5758998]
I have a foal going to an inspection in a couple of weeks and am curious as to how/where others clip a foal for inspection. When I attended my last inspection 3 years ago I clipped my filly’s whiskers, a little bit of bridle path (just where the halter goes), and her ears, and the inspector was less than pleased that I had clipped her whiskers. Also, do you clip mare whiskers?
TIA.[/QUOTE]
Wow, clipping the whiskers is forbidden in Germany (even by law)!
I have even read now that they will take a lot of attention at the Bundeschampionat that no Whiskers are clippen and also not the inside of the ears. You are only allowed to cut the hair that comes out of the ear and make a straight line so to say, but nothing from the inside. Each horse that does not meet this, will be eliminated.
Edit: I wrote this immediatly after I read the first post. Luckiy someone copied the requirements from KWPN (Netherlands) and someone else stated that it is forbidden in Germany.
Even though someone else wrote that one should not call something that is different from what some one is used to, I have to agree clipping whiskers, muzzle hair, eyelayes is stupid !the only thing that we cut of with a pair ofd scissors (mostly like that) is the hair under the chin above the mouth. I do not know the english name for this part.
I also take the comment of someone ooffensive that the europeans lack horsemanship because they turn their horses out differently ! Because we do not cut of hair that has a reason to be were it is and because this hair can sense things. I wonder where the lack of horsemanship is when I read such a comment !
And coming to clipping of the foal. I have been present when foals that wehre presented at the inspection on auciton moring were send home, because the foals were clipped. No questioning possible, foals had to be removed from auction ground !
I can understand reasons that Mary Lou states. If I would find my foals soai´king wet outside even when they have not done anything or are not ill, I would clipp them. but we never have Florida tems, so no clipping of coat…
