$35K for a 100’x200’. Put that in yer pipe and smoke it!
Yikes, from the wet and clay-y Willamette Valley in Oregon.
I am always thankful that here in the PNW, outdoor rings are made to be ridden on in, during and after rain every time I see a thread about sealing and closing rings. I fully understand that geology plays a huge role in that (thank you Peggy for the explanation–totally makes sense!) as does the base and drainage put in when rings are constructed. If we had to seal and close our outdoor rings before rain we’d never ride except for the months of July and August! :lol:
[QUOTE=mvp;8559088]
$35K for a 100’x200’. Put that in yer pipe and smoke it!
Yikes, from the wet and clay-y Willamette Valley in Oregon.[/QUOTE]
And in this area it might well cost twice that. I keep wanting to ask my friend with the beautiful ring what it cost, but I’m afraid to because it would be too depressing.
I think really, it’s not done so many places here because it’s really only three months of the year that it’s an issue, and the last several years it’s been more like oh thank god it’s raining in January, hopefully it will settle the dust in the ring!
I agree with others. I have no problem riding in the rain, but it’s pretty normal practice to seal and close a nice arena before a rainstorm. If a correctly graded ring is sealed (groomed to have a flat surface) rain water will drain off quickly and easily and the ring will drained and back in shape for riding and jumping in no time. Whereas, if the surface is chopped up from having been ridden on, then the water will collect in the hoof prints and take forever to drain and dry.
While I don’t mind riding in sloppy footing or rain, water sitting on the base can soften it. Then, when horses ride on it, the softened base can be worn and damaged. Pulling footing up and repairing a base is EXPENSIVE. So, in general, it pays to take care of an outdoor arena as best you can depending on how the ring was built. Obviously, if you have an arena base made of large rock with perforated rubber mats over it ($$$$) you can ride whenever you want. If your base is made of compacted clay or some variety of 3/4 minus crushed rock, you might need to take some level of precautions.
It also really depends on how many people are wanting to ride on said arena. There’s a big difference in the wear and tear caused by a couple of riders versus 5-10 riders. I also think that the management might vary depending on the value of an arena. An outdoor arena can easily cost into the $50-75K range. Personally, I think mvp’s $35K is on the low side. In many cases an outdoor arena is a huge investment that the BO and BM should very reasonably be protecting. Even a less expensive arena might be worth protecting to stave off the necessity of costly repairs.
I’ll just say that it is no fun being at the middle of these decisions. Boarders want low cost board at a place with a great ring with perfect footing, but also don’t ever want to be told they can’t ride in a ring. You need to seal the arena BEFORE it starts raining, but weather reports change all the time and are often flat out wrong. And yes, most workers (and BOs) want to finish up and eat dinner with their families. Hiring employees to do routine tasks like dragging arenas at 8 pm would be expensive, if you even could find someone willing to do that. Remember, employees generally need some level of supervision/ tech support and NO, I definitely do not want to be dealing with an employee/ tractor/ groomer issue at 8 pm. Overall, caring for an arena is a tough logistical issue.
I think the best option would be for your BO to ask her worker to send her a text as soon as the arena is finished being sealed and closed. Then she could send out a quick group text or email saying “arena closed for the night.”
Peggy, I totally understand clay, lived in Georgia for most of my life. Think red brick type clay! Clay does not drain and we have lots of it here on our farm. Why we had to put in gravel at the gates to keep from having slick, sticky mud holes at them. Which is why we put in the crush and run over the clay sub base for the arena. Is gravel not easy to come by in Cali? We have a quarry within 45 minutes of the farm so no trouble here, thank goodness. I also have a round pen with the M10 footing, but no rock base under just the M10 over clay and it holds up remarkably well also. I do have puddling issues but that is more because of it is hard to drag the round pen, moving panels to get the drag in and yet even wet the footing is ok (not as good as arena but still not bad). So I am wondering if it is the M10/screenings/rock dust that is the difference. We tried sand originally in both the round pen and arena, I hated it. Now I have a big pile of sand outside of the arena that gets used to fill holes.
Yet another reason So Cal shuts down when it rains! Good thing it doesn’t rain terribly often there. 
I think the barn should definitely find some way to notify boarders about the arena closure…no reason really not to in this age of instant communication.
When I was a teen I had no clue about sealing an arena before a rainstorm…I went to ride my horse one afternoon before a rainstorm and didn’t know the staff had done that to the arena…our arena had no gates or anything, and so I just went in and rode, and no one was around to tell me I shouldn’t. Well, after the rainstorm the next day I got scolded by my instructor. She asked me why I thought it was okay to ride in the arena when it had been sealed for the upcoming rain. I said something to the tune of “Huh? What does that mean?” She probably wanted to strangle me lol. I erred on the side of caution after that and just rode in the jump field whenever I saw the arena had just been groomed. To this day, I still get nervous going into a freshly groomed arena.
[QUOTE=mvp;8558700]
Yes, but will/can boarders pay for that? Great footing in an arena costs a surprising amount of money. So do employees who will work those uber-long days as necessary.[/QUOTE]
I agree with you on all points in principle, but here’s the thing: at this barn the footing is basic sand, the base hasn’t been fixed in many many years, and as a result when it rains we get puddles in a few spots. It’s not an out and out disaster and it takes a few days to dry out. For the past 10 years I have been there everyone rode in the rain if they wanted, and around the puddles afterwards. Nobody died. (Oh, and I have offered to straight up buy good footing for the arena. In all seriousness. And was declined.)
However as of last month, new protocol! Since the arena maintainers are guys who knock off at 4, they drag and lock the arena before 4pm if rain is scheduled for the next day. Say it rains for one day, then the BM opens the arena at her leisure and without informing anyone when, 2-3 days later.
That means we’re locked out for 4-5 days total over a one day rain shower.
BM has a new full time job which is the likely reason for her refusing to inform us of the opening/closing of the arena, which I certainly wouldn’t blame her for - the BM job must be a lot on top of everything - but she’s declined to give any reason, only shutting down conversation.
Why do I stay? Pasture board within an hour of the city is impossible to find, but required by my horse…
Yep - barn has FB and an email list for boarders. It’s not lack of tech…
I wish. It is, as Quelah says, compacted dirt with a few inches of sand on top. The stated reason for closing it isn’t to preserve the (nonexistent) base, but to help speed drying. I’m not at all convinced it does - it just keeps people from riding…
Anyway, boarders have devised a way to inform each other of the arena being open/closed without troubling BM to do her job. Complaints lead to people getting kicked out… :uhoh:
Can’t the last boarder that rides before the rain drag the arena afterwards? I have had boarders drag my arena before, have a RTV and drag that is easy to hook up to. Weird boarding situations that happen in other areas of the country! We have so much rain here usually (except during our severe droughts a few years ago) that not riding before or after rain would be way too much time off for the horses.
[QUOTE=khall;8560574]
Can’t the last boarder that rides before the rain drag the arena afterwards? I have had boarders drag my arena before, have a RTV and drag that is easy to hook up to. Weird boarding situations that happen in other areas of the country! We have so much rain here usually (except during our severe droughts a few years ago) that not riding before or after rain would be way too much time off for the horses.[/QUOTE]
No - tractor/liability/pearl clutching prevent it…
The barn I used to board at would close the outdoor for heavy rains (NOT drizzle. I’m in the PNW so it’d be closed 9 mos of the year if that was the case) BUT we had a covered ring to ride in. This would be an absolute deal breaker for me. As a competitive rider with a 4 y.o. there’s no way in hell I’m missing out on 4 - 5 days of training every time it decides to sprinkle.
[QUOTE=khall;8560574]
Can’t the last boarder that rides before the rain drag the arena afterwards? I have had boarders drag my arena before, have a RTV and drag that is easy to hook up to. Weird boarding situations that happen in other areas of the country! We have so much rain here usually (except during our severe droughts a few years ago) that not riding before or after rain would be way too much time off for the horses.[/QUOTE]
At my last barn the BO would seal and two of the trainers were authorized to seal which helped quite a bit. And the BO is a bit of a night owl and would seal at night.
[QUOTE=Xanthoria;8560643]
No - tractor/liability/pearl clutching prevent it…[/QUOTE]
LOL! I maybe have gasped slightly at the thought Having seen a fair number of $$$$ lawsuits over the years involving boarders near farm equipment in operation much less operating it themselves…no.
A floated ring (assuming it’s floated smooth - I used a hideously heavy pipe, fancy places have drum rollers) really does dry faster, I promise.
You will perhaps appreciate this. In an effort to keep my “doesn’t have a fancy base” ring more useable this winter and keep my young horse going (or GET him going as it may be), before a big storm (I did it tonight) I cover the entire arena in heavy black plastic. Wait for the rain to be over, roll the plastic back up, PRESTO! Perfectly dry arena. For about .5% the cost of a covered ring. Where there’s a will….
I spent a few months recently at a barn that had a similar practice. Shortly after I moved in, a new BM was hired and started closing the ring just as you describe. Given that we were all told that the ring was “all weather” when we moved in, this was a big problem (no covered or alternative ring on the property.)
I certainly understand wanting to maintain good footing and actually not having a covered was a big concern to me when I was deciding whether to move there, so the assurance that the ring was rideable/available in all conditions was a big deal. When that turned out not to be the case (at least based on the new BM’s rule) it was definitely an issue, not just for me but for the majority of boarders. I ended up moving to a facility with a covered ring after finding I just could not keep my horses in regular work at that farm.
I am overprotective of my arena, but only I ride in it…and I live in basically such a different climate that it might as be another planet!
That said, why farms put in rings that can’t be used for their “normal” conditions is beyond me. Pony up the extra $ upfront and with drains, etc you can make it work in about any setting. Cheap out and well, you get what you pay for. And it’s not necessarily a matter or means, people just try to cut corners, I think, or put size of arena over quality.
I “would” say that I sort of get why they want to drag, then let it rain and then open it up, as a dragged arena does tend to take it better than one full of hoofprints. However, it seems like the thing that would annoy me is the closing at 4pm, even if the rain is in the middle of the night. I would be nuts at this place, especially of what i know of that climate and the travel, cost etc you have in the horses!
That said, I do have 2 other points that take less of the boarder side…
- If you have a horse that needs daily exercise, an indoor (covered for you I suspect) is needed. I realize you have limited options, I do feel for you as my mare tends to stock up and have issues, I am fortunate to be where there is an indoor and the BM/O is fantastic with care.
- You don’t have to answer, but are there arena users who abuse it? I am surprised at how many people don’t follow basic principles (use the quarter lines as much as the the rail, do circles at other than end and middle, as in offset, and then…the lungers who I feel sometimes want to dig a trench. As a BM, and as a boarder, I see this over and over and over again. If you have any of those, esp the lungers, and they do it before the rains, I can see why the BMs “may have had it.” (Note, I realize sometimes the arena size makes it hard to do this…but, you can still adjust a little).
Good luck, I all else I said aside, I would be very frustrated.
I live in So. Cal. and when I was a kid in the late 70’s early 80’s we all rode in the sand ring after the rain with no problems. We had fun galloping through the puddles. Now even with the fancy GGT footing the rings get sealed up tight and may take a couple of days to dry if the rings get at least 1/2" of rain. “All weather” footing is a rare commodity even at expensive barns. When my daughter was a working student for a Midwest trainer, she was amazed that rings could get positively drenched during a down pour and the footing would be fine. She sent me a video of her showing at Lamplight in Illinois and it was pouring, but the horse jumped around fine. She said they only stop a show due to high winds or lightning. I am not sure what changed in California, but it seems most barns use the same seal rings system regardless of footing. Covered rings are a rare commodity at least in So. Cal. It is a good thing that El Niño has been mostly a bust this year.
[QUOTE=akor;8561173]
- If you have a horse that needs daily exercise, an indoor (covered for you I suspect) is needed. I realize you have limited options, I do feel for you as my mare tends to stock up and have issues, I am fortunate to be where there is an indoor and the BM/O is fantastic with care. [/QUOTE]
Here in N CA it rains (or is supposed to rain) about 20"/year which is really very little - were it not for the hot sun inland, not so many places would have covered arenas. And on the coast where we are the sun is not stopping anyone from riding! Add to that I’m from a place where it rains a lot, so I’m fine riding in the rain, or around puddles! 
No dramatic lungers, the usual track on the fence but no boarder activity has changed in the last month to make this necessary. No real reason given except “to help the arena dry out” and from what I’m reading sealing an arena is only a tiny part of that.
Move. The missing links in the chain of communication between almost absentee BO, staff and boarders appears to be the major issue. Oh and your hints at her general attitude seem like more than a minor issue too.
Start looking. You may not be ready to move now, but it’s coming. And it’s not just the arena, it’s the stubborn adversarial position the BM has taken against her own clients.
I used to rent a boat slip year-round and the marina manager was just like your BM. At first I thought, I can live with this. It’s the only option if I want a boat slip on this lake. Then, over time, the whole attitude became unbearable and we cancelled our slip rental. Every time I drive by I ask myself why I put up with that aggravation for so long and realize how much happier I am that I no longer have to try to deal with that jerk.
Did it hurt their business? Nope, not so far as I can tell. I believe every slip is still rented. There were probably 20 people behind me wanting my slip. Good for them.
Your BM won’t change. And sounds like the BO does not care, and I suspect there are 20 people in line for your space if you give it up. Still – you’re going to get a bellyful of it sooner or later. A better situation is out there but you won’t find it if you don’t start looking.
Good luck. I don’t know why people intentionally aggravate their own clients. How easy it would be to put a message on the FB page…much easier than curtly cutting people off over and over and over. Oh well, soon or later, it won’t be your problem any more!
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[QUOTE=digihorse;8558655]
And don’t get me started on “barn help” that doesn’t want to work beyond 4pm. FIRE them and find someone who will)[/QUOTE]
If they’ve been working since 6am, this is not reasonable. Sorry.
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The reality of horsekeeping in California in general and Southern California in particular is that it doesn’t rain all that often, so people can get away with lesser arena surfaces. There are engineered arenas around and they work great, but they are very expensive and few places have the capital to add them, or truthfully, the demand to justify it as pure cost-benefit calculation.
Older facilities in particular did not get that treatment.
When you add in that most horsekeeping places are densely populated and you’re talking about 20-50 horses a day going on that surface, the damage can add up quickly.
If all-weather riding and footing is your priority, there are barns that have it… but you’ll pay for the cost or perhaps in tradeoffs like OP mentioned, where she valued turnout.
In places east of the Mississippi, you get rain all year and you get a lot of it all the time, so the basic design requires that accommodation.
Where I live, we get almost as much rain, but it’s concentrated into a couple of months in winter, so people just turn their horses out, or they trail ride.
