College Equestrian Team Horses

[ladyj79]

Ridergirl99, I came out of a top program. Some of the horses are servicably sound ie kind of lame sometimes, because that’s why some of them were donated. Many of them were still super educational and useful, but had good days and bad. I don’t think it was a bad life for them at all. Except the ones who really hated being lessons horses, but they usually didn’t last too long and were returned or resold to private homes.

Retirement also varied, some were sold or adopted to students/former students. Many did work until they were put down. A handful were returned to owners, but yes, this pretty much depended on the former owner’s desires.

I do know another school I taught at where riding was a club sport rather than a team, it was much more hit or miss. Some superb donated horses (who could not be resold as per contract), but lots the horses came from buying and selling at local auctions.

In my time spent around various programs, i never witnessed any abuse or neglect. Yep, you might have a lame horse or a ribby horse, but some horses are just harder to manage than others.

[Ridergirl99]

The top programs that are NCAA accredited have more than enough funds to insure their horses are not ribby and can certainly afford vet care for the horses. IMHO Lame animals should not be competed. Good horsemanship doesn’t always have to cost and arm and a leg. That these animals would end up in a kill pen is inexcusable. What are we teaching these athletes? I am just saying, if I did donate a horse, I would insure it was well cared for for life. That’s my personal opinion. I know everyone doesn’t hold the bar as high as I do.

[ladyj79]

Yep. I guess anyone who has a horse who needs maintenance just isn’t up to your standards…

[red_mares]

[QUOTE=Ridergirl99;8979165]
The top programs that are NCAA accredited have more than enough funds to insure their horses are not ribby and can certainly afford vet care for the horses. IMHO Lame animals should not be competed. Good horsemanship doesn’t always have to cost and arm and a leg. That these animals would end up in a kill pen is inexcusable. What are we teaching these athletes? I am just saying, if I did donate a horse, I would insure it was well cared for for life. That’s my personal opinion. I know everyone doesn’t hold the bar as high as I do.[/QUOTE]

I really wonder if you can legally “ensure it is well cared for” after you donate it. Once you donate, it is no longer your horse - you have no say in how it is cared for at all.

If you want to ensure it is well cared for, you care for it on YOUR dime.

[ItchyRichie]

I went to a boarding school where they aren’t allowed to sell the horses or rehome them once they aren’t lesson useful. Idk, I thought it kind of stunk for a lot of them tbh because plenty of them could have been useful for other people and a lot of them just ended up getting put down even though there was nothing really wrong with them (and from what I heard, fed to the local hunt hounds).

For example we had one horse who was big, sweet, beautiful, perfect manners, safe for any person to ride. He had some issues with ringbone and he couldn’t foxhunt (aka gallop and jump 3ft) anymore. But jfc he would have been anyone’s dream boyfriend horse he was the safest horse on the planet and he was still happy running around his field… euthanized. He wasn’t useful for lessons anymore but they’re not allowed to rehome them.

[Ready_To_Riot]

ItchyRichie, while i understand it sucks from your side of the fence, seeing these safe, useable-ish horse PTS, from my side of the fence, there are a million more just like it and that is the reason horses end up in the kill pen. Your schools policy sounds like an amazing one that allowed their amazing horses to go out with dignity and peace. If only they all were granted that.

My school was evidently amazing. It was a privately owned facility. The owner used to ride for the school when she was in college. No idea how the team transitioned to her barn, but regardless, it was a great decision for the team! Her barn was in a small town that I’m still quite convinced her family and her husbands family own. They know everyone. She had the lesson and training barn and then there was another property of a ridiculous amount of acreage that was deemed the baby and retirement farm. I think it was mainly retirement farm, but she had a few babies that were learning how to be respectable horses in a herd over there as well. She had one horse that I personally know of who was donated by a top HJ trainer in the state (whom she brought in for clinics and shipped the very advanced (think Maclay riders) off to. They had a good trusting relationship which says a lot about both of them. She managed to accidentally end up with another of his horses. A friend of a friend of a friend type situation and she bought him (for next to nothing if I understood correctly. Basically a donation to the program) and when the trainer showed up for a clinic, he was stunned to see that was his horse! Awesome horses that didn’t serve much purpose in an AA barn anymore. Her other lesson mounts and students could be seen at local and rated shows across the state. When first seeing the facility, I will admit, I was not thrilled about moving my horse there. It wasn’t an A barn and not what I had envisioned as an IHSA barn. I couldn’t have had my horse at a better facility. I’m so lucky to have been a rider on a team that didn’t have a school provided barn. I do know that other colleges in the state and surrounding states have many “sale” horses. No idea where they ended up, but I still know exactly where and how the horses from my school are and kept. Even those that were for sale.

I don’t know the truth in the article. I do know that it is a real problem. Funding from schools is VERY limited. If there is no room, there is no room. Period. Would I ever donate to a school? After careful research, yes, if I had to. IHSA, IEA, regular lesson programs, summer camps, tourist trail rides, and everything in between have been found to throw horses away at auctions. Pointing out one school who did this is like pointing out one person who brought heroine into our county. It’s an epidemic. No one person or school or riding program is responsible. It’s a normalcy that people don’t want to discuss. If we put as much effort into finding a solution as we do in discussing and bitching about the problem, then we might have already covered enough ground to save millions of lives.

[snowrider]

I am pretty sure that the UC system has to auction them publicly since they are public property. They are not allowed to give stuff away, it gets surplused basically. I think it’s terrible but I bet a lot of public schools have similar rules and some are probably not very good at getting around them.

[LawsofMurph]

It really bothers me when people paint the idea of donating horses to colleges with such a broad brush.

At my college, people lined up to put their name down to adopt one of their favorite horses. I watched my program take horses back if someone who adopted them couldn’t keep them anymore. I watched them keep several very old and unadoptable guys happy and healthy when they had literally no purpose outside of being retired.

I know this isn’t always the norm, but I don’t think it’s fair to look at a situation like in the OP and say all schools dump old horses.

Just my $0.02

[ItchyRichie]

[QUOTE=Ready To Riot;8980939]
ItchyRichie, while i understand it sucks from your side of the fence, seeing these safe, useable-ish horse PTS, from my side of the fence, there are a million more just like it and that is the reason horses end up in the kill pen. Your schools policy sounds like an amazing one that allowed their amazing horses to go out with dignity and peace. If only they all were granted that.

My school was evidently amazing. It was a privately owned facility. The owner used to ride for the school when she was in college. No idea how the team transitioned to her barn, but regardless, it was a great decision for the team! Her barn was in a small town that I’m still quite convinced her family and her husbands family own. They know everyone. She had the lesson and training barn and then there was another property of a ridiculous amount of acreage that was deemed the baby and retirement farm. I think it was mainly retirement farm, but she had a few babies that were learning how to be respectable horses in a herd over there as well. She had one horse that I personally know of who was donated by a top HJ trainer in the state (whom she brought in for clinics and shipped the very advanced (think Maclay riders) off to. They had a good trusting relationship which says a lot about both of them. She managed to accidentally end up with another of his horses. A friend of a friend of a friend type situation and she bought him (for next to nothing if I understood correctly. Basically a donation to the program) and when the trainer showed up for a clinic, he was stunned to see that was his horse! Awesome horses that didn’t serve much purpose in an AA barn anymore. Her other lesson mounts and students could be seen at local and rated shows across the state. When first seeing the facility, I will admit, I was not thrilled about moving my horse there. It wasn’t an A barn and not what I had envisioned as an IHSA barn. I couldn’t have had my horse at a better facility. I’m so lucky to have been a rider on a team that didn’t have a school provided barn. I do know that other colleges in the state and surrounding states have many “sale” horses. No idea where they ended up, but I still know exactly where and how the horses from my school are and kept. Even those that were for sale.

I don’t know the truth in the article. I do know that it is a real problem. Funding from schools is VERY limited. If there is no room, there is no room. Period. Would I ever donate to a school? After careful research, yes, if I had to. IHSA, IEA, regular lesson programs, summer camps, tourist trail rides, and everything in between have been found to throw horses away at auctions. Pointing out one school who did this is like pointing out one person who brought heroine into our county. It’s an epidemic. No one person or school or riding program is responsible. It’s a normalcy that people don’t want to discuss. If we put as much effort into finding a solution as we do in discussing and bitching about the problem, then we might have already covered enough ground to save millions of lives.[/QUOTE]

I don’t think one wrong justifies a lesser wrong. I think killing a perfectly happy horse is wrong. He could have been a therapy horse, done dressage (beautiful mover and incredibly broke), or jfc they charge enough for tuition and have big beautiful fields with horses that live out nearly 24/7 he could have just lived out there. Horses are not ours to use and abuse and kill once we’ve had our fun with them. Where I work we rehome horses like this all the time it’s not that difficult and keep tabs on basically all of them. None of them have ever wound up at auctions.

[ladyj79]

Not all horses can just be tossed out in a field to live out their days, regardless of how nice that field is.

[snaffle1987]

Personal experience is pretty much anything that was donated to the program was accepted. From track broke Thoroughbreds to Quarter Horses, occasionally a PMU horse, sport horse crosses with issues, etc. Within the first few weeks they would weed out what they did not want due to various issues: behavior, lack of training, lameness, health, etc. Anything they did not want was auctioned off somewhere and basically disappeared. It was a well known thing within the program that those unusable were disposed of and unless they had a serious health issue, they were not put down on the property and they left the barn alive.

If the horse went to a private buyer, buyers were not vetted and it was strictly a means to get rid of the animal as quick as possible. They went to the highest bidder, whoever that was, and disappeared.

As for care; the public university I attended took care of the horses but the care was not stellar; It was average. Every horse got fed the same type of grain (cheap, universal bulk grain) in about the same amount regardless of age, size, breed, etc. Hay was bought cheapest and had little to be desired. Turnout was minimal and horses spent most of their time in a stall.

If they went out; they were turned out in varying groups and left to the pecking order. Horses that were not ridden regularly where basically on another part of the property and received no attention. fed 2x a day and left alone. Occasionally some horses were severely malnourished and underfed.

Some of the horses that lived in their stalls but weren’t handled much were known to have maggots in their feet (farrier stories)

I always gave extra loving to any horse I came across. I do hae to say if the horse had a repairable injury and was well-liked; they’d take the time to rehab the horse and keep it going. They didn’t just throw away horses who were already part of the program and decently successfully in it.

There was always nice horses that came through, not top show horses, but good projects. Most of them were donated when owners could no longer afford them or they lacked training. Not many came through with soundness issues.

[ItchyRichie]

[QUOTE=ladyj79;8981479]
Not all horses can just be tossed out in a field to live out their days, regardless of how nice that field is.[/QUOTE]

There’s no reason a happy, healthy pasture sound horse can’t be. I’m not talking about horses that need to be killed because of health and soundness issues. Ringbone is not a death sentence, especially in the scenario that I’m specifically talking about.

[ladyj79]

No, some horses will not happily or comfortably tolerate 24/7 turn out. It’s not a soundness question.

[red_mares]

[QUOTE=ItchyRichie;8981504]
There’s no reason a happy, healthy pasture sound horse can’t be. I’m not talking about horses that need to be killed because of health and soundness issues. Ringbone is not a death sentence, especially in the scenario that I’m specifically talking about.[/QUOTE]

Believe it or not, some horses really do not do well turned out. They don’t like it. Got one at my barn, an old show horse that is sound, just too old and creaky to show successfully.

She was turned out for a couple years and she did lousy. She was too busy looking around to eat. Last year she was skin and bones despite getting grain a couple times a day. They brought her back in the barn and she’s doing great. She is happy as a clam in her 12X12 world.

[vxf111]

[QUOTE=LawsofMurph;8981438]
It really bothers me when people paint the idea of donating horses to colleges with such a broad brush.

At my college, people lined up to put their name down to adopt one of their favorite horses. I watched my program take horses back if someone who adopted them couldn’t keep them anymore. I watched them keep several very old and unadoptable guys happy and healthy when they had literally no purpose outside of being retired.

I know this isn’t always the norm, but I don’t think it’s fair to look at a situation like in the OP and say all schools dump old horses.

Just my $0.02[/QUOTE]

This is true but the problem is… what happens after you donate? Coaches change, barns change, programs change… a school that previously took great care of the horses and did retire them can have a change in management/finances and now is making weekly trips to New Holland.

Through backchannels I have learned that my school’s program seems to have improved significantly in terms of retiring horses after I left. That’s super. But what about when it goes the OTHER way? The entire program has changed since I left-- new coach, new barn… everything is new. Had I donated a horse… it would be pure luck that the new program sounds better than when I was a student. It could easily have gone the other direction.

The only true way to control your horse’s future is to continue to own it. That may mean leasing it to a college program if that’s a good fit, but by retaining ownership you retain some control. That can have financial consequences… but to me it would be worth it.

[findeight]

Some people who donate do so because they simply cannot afford the horse any more. Sometimes they don’t want to and there’s nobody to ride or care for it as it was their kid’s horse and they moved out and left it, sometimes serious negative changes in the family health and/or finances mean they can’t even if they want to. There are reasons people choose to donate that may not give you the warm fuzzies but they are good reasons. Least they are giving the horse a shot at finding a home.

Far as the colleges, many are governed by IRS rules if donors took a tax deduction, public colleges are at the mercy of their trustees or club self funding to try to support unuseable horses that don’t generate any income from user fees. Many are pretty much on a shoestring budget with no room for such things. Private schools may or may not have an easier time depending on alumni support-as in money.

Its not easy. As I said early on, since I have not taken in a used up college reject to support for the rest if it’s life? I’m not going to judge. I support my own retiree as I long planned to do when it became unuseable.

[vxf111]

[QUOTE=findeight;8981619]
Some people who donate do so because they simply cannot afford the horse any more. Sometimes they don’t want to and there’s nobody to ride or care for it as it was their kid’s horse and they moved out and left it, sometimes serious negative changes in the family health and/or finances mean they can’t even if they want to. There are reasons people choose to donate that may not give you the warm fuzzies but they are good reasons. Least they are giving the horse a shot at finding a home.[/QUOTE]

The same could be said of selling the horse. There are all kinds of reasons why someone wants a horse “off the books.” Selling or donating… something bad could happen down the line. If you know the private seller, it might be a bit more of a guarantee and I also think an easier life than being a lesson horse in many programs.