Color Gurus... Please tell me about Liver Chestnut

[TWF]

Luvin Liver too!

Grande Saber X Grundstein and his dam Can’t Act x TV Commercial were both very deep liver. Many of Grande Saber offspring are liver. Saber’s Heisman sister Kyrie’d Triomphe is very deep liver.

Saber son - Grande Sovereign A deep liver with a constellation of white spots - has been a PLUS stallion since he has sire just two fillies since he has stood at stud!!

Love the liver!

[JB]

[QUOTE=RanchoAdobe;6516821]
 is the black color around his eyes look like a liver chestnut to you? His body is now turning a black color as well. Here is hoping
[IMG]http://i1258.photobucket.com/albums/ii536/akannow/7f0ab14c.jpg)[/QUOTE]
Pretty typical of a first chestnut shed

[QUOTE=MsM;6517693]Would you consider him Liver?
http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad119/msmavron/stevie-e1.jpg[/QUOTE]
A bit borderline, but I would

[RanchoAdobe]

Thanks for the responses! I kinda hope he stays this dark, but I will update everyone next year. And I am repeating the cross next year

[sundae]

H![](, I thought I’d share my experience.
Both this guy’s parents were normal chestnut. He was born a pale, dull, washy-looking tan. He shed out dark but we thought he’d lighten up. Now I’m not so sure. He barely looks like a chestnut at all. This is him about 7 months old:

[IMG]http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p228/appaloosa5/comet/Photo-0216-1.jpg)
[IMG]http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p228/appaloosa5/comet/Photo-0171.jpg)

[JB]

Sundae, he’s very interesting! I would have though at the very least he’d start looking bleached. Is this a current picture? I wonder if his darker Winter coat is keeping up with any bleaching? I would LOVE if you could post pictures of him on this thread when he sheds in the Spring, and even later this year, late Fall maybe.

[Tiki]

I have one that is liver chestnut, but in the winter, she looks bay. However, she doesn’t have a spot of black on her. Her legs, mane and tail are dark, dark, dark red/brown, but her body looks bay in her winter coat. She was pretty red as a foal , but she’s pretty dark in her adult coat - third one down. Absolutely no black anywhere.

[JB]

Gorgeous Tiki!

Her give-away as an adult that she’s not bay/brown is the red hues in her pasterns

[Fancy_That]

Here’s my liver flaxen Morgan

As others have said, the “shade” of chestnut is not 100% understood, from a genetics/breeding standpoint.

But obviously if you start off with LIVER and you breed to LIVER or a horse who’s “red” behind it is LIVER - you have good chances.

My true liver Morgan (who used to have a light silver mane and tail) is by a true liver (also with grey mane and tail) and out of a dark chestnut that most folks would call liver too. But she is from a notoriously liver-line of Morgans - and the Morgan breed is probably the most CHOCK FULL OF LIVERS of all breeds of horses. They have so much “sooty” and darker shades of every color in the breed.

Here’s my mare:

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk150/elaineshickman/Fancy%20Family/FancyProPics008.jpg

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk150/elaineshickman/Fancy%20Family/FancyProPics014.jpg

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk150/elaineshickman/Fancy%20Family/Fancyreversedapplessmall.jpg

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk150/elaineshickman/Fancy%20Family/F_headup.jpg

She’s a little bleached out here:
http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk150/elaineshickman/Fancy%20Family/F_walkingoutgate.jpg

She actually bleaches out terribly every season. I hate it. But she lives out 24/7 and I refuse to keep her in or covered just to keep the dark chocolate color. So, every year, she gets sun-bleached and every year (fall and spring) she grows a nice DARK chocolate coat!

Her sire - a true liver:
http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk150/elaineshickman/Fancy%20Family/Devan_body.jpg

[madamlb]

Fancy That, I would say it looks like you have a silver dapple rather than a liver?

My two livers (mother and sun) are so very different to any normal chestnut. From a distance you would say they were bay or black. Same combination- both by black stallions and out of liver mares. Both born chestnut but foal shed shed out BLACK and then obviously lightened, but not that much. If the foal sheds out liver then it’s almost certainly just chestnut, if the foal sheds out black then it might be liver.

[sundae]

[QUOTE=JB;6524445]
Sundae, he’s very ![](nteresting! I would have though at the very least he’d start looking bleached. Is this a current picture? I wonder if his darker Winter coat is keeping up with any bleaching? I would LOVE if you could post pictures of him on this thread when he sheds in the Spring, and even later this year, late Fall maybe.[/QUOTE]

Thanks, he is interesting! I’m in Australia, so our spring is next month. Those pics were his summer coat, taken in early autumn. Here he is now at the end of winter. (His tail still has a lot of foal frosting in it but I imagine will go darker):
[IMG]http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p228/appaloosa5/Mobile%20Uploads/mms_img1138259086-1-1-1.jpg)
[IMG]http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p228/appaloosa5/Mobile%20Uploads/mms_img-1745786376-1.jpg)
[IMG]http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p228/appaloosa5/comet/mms_img154871546-1-1.jpg)

[TikiSoo]

Beautiful horses there!

I call my QH a liver chestnut and if pressed a flaxen-maned-liver-chestnut. Her sire is Sonny Dee’s Flaxen Son, so I’d guess that’s what the breeder’s consider it too.
A lot of people try to complicate the matter with “sooty” or “silver dapple” descriptions, which I find silly.

http://home.earthlink.net/~streamliner/dandiclip.jpg

This is her summer bleached out coat and in winter she’s a more dead, blacker color. If she gets really bleached in the summer she looks like a “chocolate palomino”!

I think the real indication of liver chestnut is if they shine lavender instead of a true chestnut’s copper.

There is a Rocky Mountain Horse that just came to our barn and his body coat is a dead black sort of color and his mane is more yellowish, very much like the sire of Fancy That’s horse.

The real odd thing about my horse’s color is her legs are tigered brindle and she has several distinct “birdcatcher” spots.

[JB]

[QUOTE=![](adamlb;6526088]
Fancy That, I would say it looks like you have a silver dapple rather than a liver?

[/quote]

Nope, she’s liver with flaxen. Her flaxen is the “dirty” flaxen, and that actually happens to a great many flaxens who might start off very light in the mane and tail - darkens with age. I can see how it can be confused with Silver, but it’s really quite different in most cases

If the foal sheds out liver then it’s almost certainly just chestnut, if the foal sheds out black then it might be liver.

It depends on what you mean by “black” :lol: There are some palominos who shed out absolutely “black” looking, then grow up to be normal palis.

[QUOTE=sundae;6526140]Thanks, he is interesting! I’m in Australia, so our spring is next month. Those pics were his summer coat, taken in early autumn. Here he is now at the end of winter. (His tail still has a lot of foal frosting in it but I imagine will go darker):
[IMG]http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p228/appaloosa5/Mobile%20Uploads/mms_img1138259086-1-1-1.jpg)
[IMG]http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p228/appaloosa5/Mobile%20Uploads/mms_img-1745786376-1.jpg)
[IMG]http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p228/appaloosa5/comet/mms_img154871546-1-1.jpg)[/QUOTE]
Ah, that makes sense why he was so dark then! His tail is interesting. It may just be baby flaxen, especially since his mane is not like that. He’s cute!!

@TikiSoo;6526196

I call my QH a liver chestnut and if pressed a flaxen-maned-liver-chestnut. Her sire is Sonny Dee’s Flaxen Son, so I’d guess that’s what the breeder’s consider it too.
A lot of people try to complicate the matter with “sooty” or “silver dapple” descriptions, which I find silly.

http://home.earthlink.net/~streamliner/dandiclip.jpg

This is her summer bleached out coat and in winter she’s a more dead, blacker color. If she gets really bleached in the summer she looks like a “chocolate palomino”!

I think the real indication of liver chestnut is if they shine lavender instead of a true chestnut’s copper.

But, it’s not really complicating things if you bring sooty into the matter. I would suspect in your horse’s case, with the roots of the mane being “dirty”, that you’re looking at sooty making the mane more charcoal instead of more silvery/white. Sooty can still be in the picture

There is a Rocky Mountain Horse that just came to our barn and his body coat is a dead black sort of color and his mane is more yellowish, very much like the sire of Fancy That’s horse.

Given it’s a RM, the odds are much better that’s a black silver instead of liver, but they have liver as well.

The real odd thing about my horse’s color is her legs are tigered brindle and she has several distinct “birdcatcher” spots.

Sooty is good for putting those tiger stripes on the legs, mimicking dun markings

[rideagoldenpony]

I have a beautiful liver chestnut mare that I imported this past spring. I love her! http://www.welshponies.com/aurora.htm

We also had our first actual liver chestnut foal this year, too. She came with a bit of “exciting” (and unexpected) markings, also, but we LOVE her! Here she is JUST weaned and at her very first show. She was a really good girl. These photos actually make her look much more red than she looks in person.
http://www.welshponies.com/fanfare0383sm.jpg
http://www.welshponies.com/fanfare0388sm.jpg

I also have a colt this year that is a liver chestnut, but not as dark as the filly.

[Sunnydays]

Fanfare - well-deserved name. Such a cutie!!

[purplnurpl]

I’m also a fan of the almost black looking liver chestnut.
It’s my favorite color as well.

[JB]

@rideagoldenpony;6527990

I have a beautiful liver chestnut mare that I imported this past spring. I love her! http://www.welshponies.com/aurora.htm

So LOVELY!!

We also had our first actual liver chestnut foal this year, too. She came with a bit of “exciting” (and unexpected) markings, also, but we LOVE her! Here she is JUST weaned and at her very first show. She was a really good girl. These photos actually make her look much more red than she looks in person.
http://www.welshponies.com/fanfare0383sm.jpg
http://www.welshponies.com/fanfare0388sm.jpg

I also have a colt this year that is a liver chestnut, but not as dark as the filly.

OMG I squealed!! :D:D

[LivviesMom]

Pretty sure my 2 yr old half welsh is Liver…

Summer as a yearling - http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10150267130466363&set=a.10150267129966363.328576.514471362&type=3&theater

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10150538380176363&set=a.10150311871256363.338715.514471362&type=3&theater Post clipping…

Weanling - Winter http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10150090969393190&set=t.514471362&type=3&theater

Sire is Black, Dam is Very Dark bay/black.
Full sister is a lovely bay. This years full sibling is black
Callie is quite dark now, with her winter coat already starting! UGH!

[LivviesMom]

[QUOTE=rideagoldenpony;6527990]
I have a beautiful liver chestnut mare that I imported this past spring. I love her! http://www.welshponies.com/aurora.htm

We also had our first actual liver chestnut foal this year, too. She came with a bit of “exciting” (and unexpected) markings, also, but we LOVE her! Here she is JUST weaned and at her very first show. She was a really good girl. These photos actually make her look much more red than she looks in person.
http://www.welshponies.com/fanfare0383sm.jpg
http://www.welshponies.com/fanfare0388sm.jpg

I also have a colt this year that is a liver chestnut, but not as dark as the filly.[/QUOTE]
LOVE that mare!

Baby is to die for… love the markings.

[2tempe]

RIDEAGoldenPony - your welsh mare reminds me very much of my only liver colored mare (though she was a QH) - same shade, a bit of chrome.

BUT - really, I think I have to have that little bugger Fanfare. OMG, she is quite a looker, my heart goes pitter patter.

I’m a sucker for color, though I HATE cleaning white legs. But I could suffer if need be…

[rideagoldenpony]

Thanks, everyone!!

Fanfare is a very special foal, born to a mare that my mother fell in love with and imported. She had only been home about 2 weeks when she had kidney failure and had to be rushed to the university vet hospital. (We never could determine the cause.) $$,$$$ later, she came home, and faced an arduous recovery, because she had foundered on the 3rd day (due to the kidney issues), and sadly it was handled all wrong. We had almost gotten her completely sound when our local vet got it in her head to trim the mare’s feet herself… and pared off all of her sole, taking it from half an inch of good hard sole to PAPER THIN.

Absesses so bad we thought she would lose her feet, on and on it all went. She finally was about 90% normal and the vet (a different one by this time!) OK’d breeding her. And Fanfare is the result. So thankful for a filly, as it is unknown what kind of long term prognosis the mare has, as she refoundered about halfway through her pregnancy. I call her the six million dollar pony, but I just looked out the window and watched her trot across her pen, so she is feeling better. Hopefully we can get her stabilized again, as she is a young mare.