I have been absent from this thread for awhile now but I have been checking in almost daily. I’d like to add that I am thrilled that this thread continues to keep going. It shows that fellow competitors really do care and I hope the anger and disgust exhibited in this thread encourages others at shows to Step up and say something if they seem something questionable. Competitors forget that the USEF is THEIR organization. It only exists because of everyone who pays their dues every year and shows at their shows every weekend. You have a voice and if competitors continue to band together and let their voice be heard; USEF cannot choose to ignore you. Keep up the good fight and maybe USEF will forced to listen. I do hope something good comes of this and fellow competitors continue to keep the discussion going.
[QUOTE=STA;8320282]
Who chooses the Trainer? Who participates in the decision of the rider, the stable, the program, the horse shows to enter, who pays the bills? Who is responsible for the horse - THE OWNER. Can you imagine if in this case all the charges were found to be true and the Owner was found responsible and set down? Do you think other trainers would take the chance with their owners. The choose the Trainer, I believe responsible for all the results not just the ribbons.[/QUOTE]
That’s not a perfect solution, though. It is very easy for a person to create different horse ownership entities using corporations such as LLCs or “farms” that have no actual premises, partnerships, family members, etc. The declared owner on an entry form also may be different from the actual owner. When it comes down to it, a person can list anyone they want on an entry form–even a groom–just as people have abused the “trainer” blank on entry forms. You would think that ownership would be a pretty solid thing, but it isn’t always.
It’s really interesting that the conversation has migrated over to the number of horse shows that horses do in a year. I absolutely get the concern, but I also think it’s worth noting:
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unless I’m mistaken, the horse and owner involved in the suit that’s the basis for this discussion are NOT known for overshowing.
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if you restrict people to their best points from their first 15 shows, that creates more pressure/incentive to “get it right every time” -> use calming agents.
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as a side point, it seems to me that people care less about indoors than they used to. Shows like WEF and the Hampton Classic and Capital Challenge are just as prestigious now.
[QUOTE=BeeHoney;8321037]
That’s not a perfect solution, though. It is very easy for a person to create different horse ownership entities using corporations such as LLCs or “farms” that have no actual premises, partnerships, family members, etc. The declared owner on an entry form also may be different from the actual owner. When it comes down to it, a person can list anyone they want on an entry form–even a groom–just as people have abused the “trainer” blank on entry forms. You would think that ownership would be a pretty solid thing, but it isn’t always.[/QUOTE]
And that’s why you suspend the horse, with suspension following the horse regardless of sale. It slaps everyone involved in the pocketbook/ego.
Agreed.
Also, if the “owner” of the horse is an LLC, I imagine it could be difficult for the USEF to extract any fines, or apply any penalties such as suspensions. It’s just too easy for the people involved to create a new ownership entity and go on from there.
Has anyone else seen the letter going around Facebook from Perfect Prep?
Agreed.
Also, if the “owner” of the horse is an LLC, I imagine it could be difficult for the USEF to extract any fines, or apply any penalties such as suspensions. It’s just too easy for the people involved to create a new ownership entity and go on from there.
I have seen suspensions from other associations that include the verbiage that the suspension extends to any entity involving the horse/owner.
[QUOTE=carroal;8320793]
Just got my In Stride with the article and picture of TC winning the Hunterdon Cup. Really is a mockery.[/QUOTE]
Wont even go into the irony there other then her age prevented her from being set down. Unlike the last Cover Boy multiple offender featured right after the suspension was announced,
No, this does not have anything to do with over showing. If anything horses that get pounded don’t need calmatives. But they got their own can of worms getting assorted substances to mask their deteriorating physical condition. Being “comfortable” is one thing, masking pain on horses that should not even be there is quite another…and even worse for the horse.
Another topic but I about gagged looking at the schedule of a few of the elite level Jumpers lately.
[QUOTE=findeight;8321099]
Wont even go into the irony there other then her age prevented her from being set down.[/QUOTE]
Do adult riders get set down when their horses test positive?
No. What does it say?
[QUOTE=ynl063w;8321143]
Do adult riders get set down when their horses test positive?[/QUOTE]
Come to think of it, don’t think so. Changes Dec 1.
Can somebody pull the PP letter off FB and put it here?
This one? I’m guessing not this one since they posted it on their page 18 hours ago and it only has one share and 16 likes, which is far from viral. Is there a different one? Fits right in with the sentiment of the recent USEF press release.
In recent weeks we have received many questions regarding prohibited substances and our products. As the leader in equine performance supplements, we want to reassure you that our products contain no prohibited substances.
Don’t worry - Perfect Products formulas contain no GABA or phenibut.
We only create formulas that comply with prohibited substance guidelines. In addition, we publish a complete listing of our ingredients on our website for your reference.
We invite you to cross check our ingredients with the FEI Clean Sport Prohibited Substances Database and the USEF Drugs & Medications Guidelines to reaffirm that Perfect Products formulas, including Perfect Prep, contain no prohibited substances.
If you have further questions we are available by phone at 877-324-8002, or e-mail your inquiry to us at info@perfectproductseq.com.
Ingredients are NOT the point even if they are legal. The culture they create with their flashy adds and endorsements to convince us we NEED to use them is. They don’t see it that way, they think they fill a need and provide products a horse simply cannot do without. And certainly are living quite well thanks to the success of their supplements so I don’t expect they’d say anything else.
Thats not even touching on overdosing and combining with other products and meds…,there’s a reason our own Drs now ask what vitamins and supplements we are taking before writing a scrip or performing any procedures.
[QUOTE=findeight;8321217]
They don’t see it that way, they think they fill a need and provide products a horse simply cannot do without.[/QUOTE]
Do you think they actually believe that?
I think the need being filled is for a hefty profit for the company.
[QUOTE=Ghazzu;8321234]
Do you think they actually believe that?
I think the need being filled is for a hefty profit for the company.[/QUOTE]
Um, yeah, I do, least one of them based on personal observation and conversation.
Take the fifth on any details.
I know one thing that I have wished for a long time now - I wish I owned a share in the Perfect Products company! They have got to be making a fortune.
Yes, they and their original investor group are doing quite well. Which is fine and the point of starting a business and sacrificing to get it going. Nice people too.
Its the “side effects” of what it’s become that are troublesome.
Such a ridiculous letter from PP. Way to skirt the issue. It’s not an ingredients issue…it’s a violating the intent of the rule
[QUOTE=RugBug;8321414]
Such a ridiculous letter from PP. Way to skirt the issue. It’s not an ingredients issue…it’s a violating the intent of the rule[/QUOTE]
I wish I could “appreciate” this post more than once.
[QUOTE=BeeHoney;8321085]
Agreed.
Also, if the “owner” of the horse is an LLC, I imagine it could be difficult for the USEF to extract any fines, or apply any penalties such as suspensions. It’s just too easy for the people involved to create a new ownership entity and go on from there.[/QUOTE]Don’t LLCs have an owner attached to them, either on the horse’s recording page or in USEF’s records. It’s not an unnumbered Swiss bank account.
