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Commission when buy and sell. 5X higher than real estate commission?

I think maybe more what @RAyers is getting at is… the question is bizarre because they should already know the general answer to their question to have even gotten to the level they are at.

My comments give more context. I think this is a non-horsey parent who wrote checks up until now where the sum is enough to “look into it”.

I wish I had $200k to blow on a horse, but I am not “jealous” for saying that someone with $200k to blow on a kid’s horse shouldn’t be concerned with $60k in well documented, industry standard transaction fees.

Kinda like I am totally fine with a mid five figure redo of hardwood floors in my new home, because it is a drop in the bucket compared to the 7 figure purchase price I just shelled out for…it is kinda something you budget for when you play in these size transactions…

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I was looking to this forum for some honest input as we try to make a decision and get educated. I have searched everywhere for info on industry standards and found very very little. Thanks all for insights as I wish I had this earlier. We love our trainer and want to make sure we are on track with compensating him properly. We have those better insights now.

But I am not sure why some are attacking those that ask the questions and calling them bizarre. We aren’t ultra wealthy and are putting way more than we should into our sons dreams. Why is it wrong to ask for insights when so many smart people here have the answers?

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Think of it this way, if you sent the horse to another trainer to be sold, that trainer would want a full commission, and your trainer would be entitled to a separate commission for finding you the new horse. Two separate transactions, two separate commissions. I’ve seen commissions reduced on in-barn sales where the sellers and buyers essentially split a commission, and I do know of a top trainer who will occasionally reduce her commission when a client has been doing a lot of top-dollar buying and selling and showing, but it is definitely more than one sale, one purchase, and the trainer offered, the client did not ask for a reduction. If the commissions in close proximity pinch the budget, talk to the trainer about ways to handle (spreading payments, increasing sale price to cover some commission, spending less etc . .) but if you love this trainer, asking for a reduction in commission rates in this situation is not going to enhance the relationship.

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Flip the script. How would the OP feel if someone walked into his/her place of business and said, “I understand x percent is the industry standard, but would you be willing to take less than that?”

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This is probably also in your contract. Most boarding contracts for show or training barns include a commission clause about sales and leases.

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OP - can you sell the horse on your own? At that price point, records are obviously going to be very good and available and a vetting should suffice to prove it’s worth. On the flip side, finding a horse with a great record in the jumper ring and having a vetting done is pretty easy to do by yourself.

I can understand the hesitation because there are a lot of shady deals done. Vet records, bad habits, kickbacks, etc the list goes on forever in the horse world, unfortunately.

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No one is going to buy a $200k horse from a big eq kid’s parent, not to mention all the bad blood that would be generated from the trainer if OP chose to do so.

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Agree that part is weird but it isn’t bragging. It reads like a parent who has been hands off and just signed the cheques without asking questions until now.

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As a general add on, it’s not that uncommon for a commission to get split again by the agent. Seller’s trainer “tips” a mutual acquaintance that connects her with the buying agent. I’ve seen 3% for that. A finder’s fee if you will.

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Welcome to COTH. We have all kinds here. I think your post was sensible.

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In this scenario I’d ask trainer to verbally (private treaty) market said horse at $30-$60k or more above the figure you’ve earmarked to buy the new jumper, in this case $200k. See who bites at $260k to make up your difference. 15% of $260k is $39k, so profit for you is $221k and then buy a jumper for $170k or less. Play some games (negotiate - everything besides death and taxes and commission on ultra competitive show horses are negotiable, hehe) - see what you can make happen!

Lots of folks with cash to burn for Big Eq dreams. I know a few juniors on the west coast who have 4+ personal horses across Eq, jumpers, and hunters with purchase prices over $200k each and (their parents as they are minors) will lease a Big Eq horse for $100k one single year for Medal Finals etc.

I’d also just mention… a fair amount of juniors that come from non-horsey parents do not continue to ride at this competitive level into adulthood without significant ability to not have to work …ever…or ever attend traditional university. I don’t know your financial situation, but just food for thought. There is a large possibility a junior won’t ride in this capacity past 21 if they need to bring in their own income.

I say this because you say you’re not ultra wealthy (all things relative) but spending $200k on a horse for a junior rider is an “ultra wealthy move” and as evidenced by your sticker shock of $60k commission fees, probably warning bells that you’re doing something maybe not the most financially responsible (long term) and are not versed enough in the horse world to know you might be biting off more than you bargained for…

No hate, I promise, I’m not wealth hating or gatekeeping what is wealthy. People if they saw my income/ investments etc on paper might consider me wealthy, but I am an “average” early 30s CA Tech worker who is aware of her status compared to the rest of the US/world, but cannot fathom spending $200k on a horse. And this is from someone who just bought a 7 figure home in CA with a hefty downpayment to offset the rising interest rates…

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I just have to say…as another person who could, if it was some huge priority, afford a $200k big eq horse for my kiddo…yeah sorry kids you get pony club and a packer pony. We will see if your interest makes it past grade school and then we will talk 6 figure horses.

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My trainer is 10% on any horse over 50k and 15% on any horse under. But buying for both the buying and selling is normal. They are two different transactions and honestly two completely different skills.

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Agree. Lots of sour grapes here at the price of the horse. Nobody has that kind of money to spend while at the same time not caring about how much money they spend.

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I agree that the trainer is entitled to whatever commission they want, as long as it’s agreed upon. I don’t care if it’s 50%, if that’s the terms, that’s the terms. If it’s in the boarding contract that horses must be sold through the trainer, than OP has to abide by that or move horse to sell solo.

I also agree that it’s unlikely someone is going to buy a 200k horse from a no-name nobody.

But for a trainer to be mad, or make bad blood, because someone sold something that was not owned by the trainer? That’s ridiculous, and smacks of money grab. Assuming OP has paid all board and training bills, the trainer has gotten what they put into the horse - if they feel they haven’t, then they should have been charging more all along. If OP decided to try a new trainer and moved the horse, the trainer would get $0 - it’s a similar situation.

At any rate, I think the situation OP describes is common and well known, albeit in a range I will never play in.

Well.

I’m a real estate attorney with my own investment property portfolio who works closely with realtors as they get deals done, and am a former professional rider who has sold self trained horses for more than I paid for houses, so perhaps I am qualified to weigh in.

  1. Of COURSE you are going to pay commission on each horse. Do you think when people sell a house to buy a different one the realtor should just do one of the deals for free?
    When my clients sell one house and then buy a second one I charge my attorney fee twice, too.
    Put another way, if you only want to pay the seller side commission when you are selling and not the buyer side when you are buying, then sell your current horse and don’t buy the replacement horse. Ta da, no buyer side commission.

  2. $200k equitation horses are a significantly more niche skill set than $200k houses. How many $200k equitation horses are there in this country? And how many $200k houses?
    How elite and fancy is a $200k horse vs a $200k house?
    Are you buying a $200k houses and inviting the mean kids from high school over for dinner to show them you made it or is nobody in $200k equitation horse circles going to be impressed by a $200k house?
    I think we can all understand that navigating the upper upper tiers of the equitation sport pets industry is a much more specialized skill set than selling a $200k house that is less than half of the median home price nationally.
    $200k horse are a lot fancier and more specialized than $200k houses.

3.Listen. I’ve ridden, trained, and made money off of high dollar luxury sport pets myself so this isn’t a judgment, but it never hurts to go through life with a little perspective on social utility. For something like HOUSING, which is something that literally everyone needs and which people depend on to live in and shelter themselves and their families, I can see an argument that commissions ‘should’ stay reasonable, as there is a greater social benefit in keeping commissions lower so that housing can be more affordable for all.
Similarly, when I have a first time home buyer taking out a loan to buy a $50,000 house in Niagara Falls, I don’t charge my $50 gas and travel fee to go drag their deed 45 minutes one way to Niagara County to record it. You know, as a member of society who understands that housing is a basic need, I can cut 'em a break, and if everyone who worked in real estate did that too, the world would probably be a better place.

I don’t really follow the same logic on purchasing $200k luxury sport pets for teenagers to ride around in a sand ring.

If you’re already buying $200k leisure time toys for your teenager, and this seems like a worthwhile expenditure for which to open the checkbook and let the hundys fly, don’t suddenly start sharpening your fiscal pencil when it comes to paying the trainer who is making this experience possible for you.

When your teenager is pulling up to the barn in whatever car he probably drives on break from whatever school he probably attends after whatever vacation y’all probably went on together, don’t suddenly start trying to cut back when it comes to paying the trainer. I mean, right??
(Do not under any circumstances respond to this paragraph with a tale of the sacrifices you have made so your son can have a succession of $200k animals. Let us return to the theory that sport pets aren’t inherently evil, and it sure is fun to ride 'em around, but it never hurts to go through life with a little perspective. That $60k in sport pet play time money for you is your trainer’s livelihood.)

  1. The last option, if you don’t think whatever the trainer is doing is worth the money they are charging, is do it yourself. Go find yourself a horse. Have your son call around, or whatever. No big deal, right? (You can also skip paying $200k for a horse altogether if you just train it up yourself as well instead of paying for someone else’s work product but I digress.)

I can tell you that when I set prices for my bookkeeping work, I calculate by taking my hourly rate and estimating how long I think it would take THE CLIENT to do it, and then add a premium for how important it is to the client that it be done correctly.

So for example, for my attorney trust account clients who face suspension or even disbarment if their IOLA accounts get fkd up, I calculate how long it would take THEM to reconcile IOLA every month (probably several hours) and how stressed THEY would be about it (extremely), add an “accuracy and peace of mind” premium, and this is how I end up charging $300 for stuff that takes ME about 30 minutes with HGTV on in the background.

If they want to complain that it only took me 30 minutes and I was watching HGTV the whole time they can do it themselves, and I have never seen clients happier to pay me $300 the very second the invoice drops in my life. :slightly_smiling_face:

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Um, OK, you might think that that wouldn’t or shouldn’t generate bad blood within the relationship but that just shows a total lack of understanding as to how the trainer-client relationship functions at show barns. The biggest issue here is that virtually no clients have the toolbox or connections to sell a $200k horse on their own, so the point is moot.

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If it does generate bad blood, then the “relationship” is monetarily transactional and nothing more.

Which is fine, but it’s still money-grabby.

A different example - I pay a contractor to gut and reno my bathroom. I then sell the house. Does the contractor want a cut of the increased value house price, too? If I used his connections to sell, sure - otherwise he should mind his own business.

At the buying-and-selling point of the process, horses are largely property only. I would feel different if a trainer had an emotional bond and that was factoring into angst over which new home the horse went to, but that’s not it here. It’s all about $$. (and even in the emotional case - it’s understandable but not valid as they are not the owners and have no recourse).

I mean, the trainer can always buy the horse, take on all the risks, and then sell it! Wait, nope, they don’t want to be on the hook when Pookie goes from a 200k horse to a 100k horse with one bad xray. :slight_smile:

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People negotiate fees All The Time. If you have 1M at a major bank you pay retail, 100M and you can negotiate all sorts of discounts. The lawyer says is $1500 per hour? Guess what, throw them enough business and you can negotiate a lower rate. Commercial real estate, accountants, even creative fields ALL negotiate prices and fees for every deal.
You don’t get to afford a 200k horse by being afraid to negotiate in business. It’s not offensive at all, it’s how business is done.
Not saying the trainer has to budge on 20%, it is entirely their right to hold their ground. But to be offended at the thought of a mature conversation is ridiculous.

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Again: the false comparisons in this thread are SO annoying. First of all, it’s a stupid analogy because your contractor is a contractor, not a sales broker or agent, and secondly, your contractor is not is not someone who spends hours, blood, sweat, and tears investing in you or your child’s well-being and happiness. You’re not just paying for a single service when you sell the horse.

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