omfg thank you 
Well, itās not just you who is unclear about money.
I have worked a ton on my relationship with money (to the point that I have been debt-free for a decade other than for a mortgage on an investment property. And I grew up too poor to own a horse of my own until I bought my first OTTB.
Anywhoooo, in one workshop I went to about money, the leader had this to say:
- Everyone has a philosophy of money.
- Most people donāt know what their philosophy of money is.
He said this in regards to how people ought to get clear with themselves before they get married, as the second cause of divorce (after sexual infidelity) is a set of irreconcilable differences about money. In other words, you probably find yourself sticking to your guns about some money issue that you havenāt articulated to yourself (let alone your partner); which you most likely learned in/from your family of origin (so itās old, deep-seated, high-stakes knowledge; it may go back more than one generation): and which you havenāt checked against current reality (or your partnerās equally strong, unspoken philosophy of money) to know if you guys could even compromise or not!
Thatās how it comes to pass that oneās personās āI canāt afford itā is Definition A, above, and another personās Definition B above. And in a truly dysfunctional family, there is a Definition C: The money gets spent, perhaps without the other stake-holding adults even knowing and really basic bills donāt get paid. And people get butt-hurt because 1. They have their definition of āI canāt afford itā: and then 2. Project that onto everyone else as though they all shared the same-- yet unarticulated-- philosophy of money.
And another thing I learned at that workshop this a great antidote to these kinds of fights: Any way you spend your money is ok (meaning moral, wise or legitimate) so long as it lines up with your values.
I know my philosophy of money-- what I find valuable and what I do not. My values donāt line up with everyone elseās, but it does tell me who I want to get into some financial deal with.
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Yeah, youāre talking about the kind of rich where you still have to work for it so your time is valuable and hence quibbling over a couple 10K might not make sense. There is a whole other layer of rich of which you clearly have no experience. Those people have Waaayyyyy more than you will ever make being employed by someone else. And guess what? A lot of them care about every penny. Not because they have to. Because itās what is ādoneā at a certain level by people who may have been born into it and have every intention of leaving it to the next generation. They see themselves as stewards of wealth, and thus have a responsibility to spend wisely and ask questions to understand where their money is going. Doesnāt mean they donāt like to spend it, just that they arenāt going to spend a penny more than necessary on each transaction.
Why? Because the really rich know that if they donāt ask responsible questions and keep track of every $ then people will start to take advantage of them. Thatās why they track lunch receipts- not because the five bucks matters but because it shows everyone that they pay attention to the details. If you pay attention to the five bucks (or 20K) itās less likely a million will walk out the door under your nose.
It is a whole other mindset from the tech money āwe have new money and we think weāre rich so weāre going to act like we think rich people should and pretend we donāt careā. Different world.
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You nailed it. Generational wealth that is static and not being added to somewhat exponentially, YES you have to mind your bottom dollar because outside of interest, dividends, investments in property that appreciates faster what what you put into it, etc. youāre gonna lose it if youāre not tracking every single expense.
Believe me, I see it. Best friend is a trust fund kid. Wealth stopped being actively added to the family once they sold Ready Mix Concrete Biz to Private Equity. Only have $40 million to split across Mom and Dad who are alive & 6 kids, 3 with 2 - 4 kids each (grand kids). Friend knows theyāll never have to get a job or do anything - she works 20 hrs a week a non-profit and collects higher education degrees. She knows her 5 brothers will definitely blow through what is left and their kids wonāt see a penny. They did a lot of weird stuff with crypto and have failed more than 10 times in 15 years to start businesses. The largest failure resulting in a charge (millions went into this case) when they got into weed before regulations were set in X state.
Itās not $60k decisions that matter, it is the ORIGINAL $200k decision is what I am getting at. I cannot believe people donāt get thisā¦
If they canāt fork over the commissions they should reduce purchase price. So simpleā¦
Generational wealth under a certain threshold runs out within 3 generations - because nothing is being added to it and they keep spending beyond what they contribute.
Basic math. I am not generationally wealthy and we donāt know about OP (OP might be 3rd generation that needs to mind the bottom line over $60k - sounds stressful, but better mind the expenses and chill for lyfe vs working, right?)
Trainer isnāt taking advantage, OP is understandably naive and asked financial advice.
Also you forget - I am not just āyoung money techā I have a CPA license (and was an investment banker who built financial models all day long and would set the valuations of many āgenerational wealthā folkās businesses. I made many founders generationally wealthy via my brokerage over 8 years) and definitely do understand the concept of how to āsaveā money. Income (static with Generational wealth or only growing at 11%/year or whatever theyāre able to manage long term) - Expenses = Profit or Loss.
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Also it really is possible to spend through any amount of money if one isnāt being aware and thoughtful about where it is going. It seems crazy to say that a million dollars doesnāt go that far these days, but considering the prices of home in higher-income neighborhoods, it really doesnāt. That is something to learn at a young age, before the real spending begins.
And of course yes, wealth is a magnet for cons and scam artists. Schemers seem like nice people, otherwise they wouldnāt be able to do what they do.
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The philosophy of being a steward of wealth has been my experience with low-9-figure net worth folks. In my experience, these are all self-made financial successes and concerned about the small expenses, as it helps exercise the muscles needed for larger spending discipline.
But like others, my sample size is too small to draw a large conclusion.
The wealthiest people I know are trying to grow their personal fortunes through wise investment so they can leave it all to a foundation to benefit the community in perpetuity. With a small (relatively) slice-out for their own kids. I love Buffetās philosophy on this āleave your kids enough to do anything, but not enough to do nothingā and Iāve seen it in action.
Hey, the OP (or similarly situated) might not bristle at $200k for the horse, but if they find a $60k āsurpriseā, right for them to question it. And what a better place than the COTH hive mind?
I also wanted to make the observation that OP said it was his/her son (why do we all conclude it was a woman who made the post?) but never indicated an age. Does the advice change if this is, say, a 25 year old still competitively riding?
Interesting discussion all around.
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We donāt know OPās gender & we donāt know age of kid AND we donāt know the country.
I think many of us (myself included) assume child because of the context clues. Most Eq riders are kids. Most jumper riders arenāt children in the US. Most Eq riders are in the US (maybe Canada?).
Here is where it gets interesting. Many of us suspect parent is not horsey (reliance on trainer, no knowledge of commissions on both sale and purchase of horse, phrases used like "eq horse is told to us (by who we onāt know presumably trainer) to be worth $200k). We also suspect Eq horse was not purchased for anywhere near the $200k value citied. Otherwise ā¦ OP would know a lot of the aforementioned.
Additionally, if there were campaigning a Big Eq horse (someone pointed out they never said Big Eq just Eq) - they certainly wouldnāt be up in arms about $60k. It takes in the high sixes or 7 figures to successfully campaign a Big Eq horse for more than 1 year.
To be āgood enoughā to require a $200k jumper, many of us assume individual has been riding some time. This could mean ages 9 -15 for a kid. Or as you say could mean ages 19 to 25!
Why does son want to switch to jumpers? Did he age out of Childrenās Eq. Or did he just get bit by the jumper bug at 24?
My comments donāt change based OPās childās age.
25 year old can start a TikTok or Youtube and bring income to fund their lifestyle if theyāre an active competitor showing the circuits where they canāt work traditionally. Iād ask son to pay commission, if I were the parent footing the $200k purchase price. If heās 25, 3 years out of college, savings rate of $20k/year. Totally doable and a sweet deal that parents pay 70% and adult child pays 30%.
That is if adult child is an ammy. If heās a pro adult - Iād tell him to buy, train, and sell horses to pay for his own professional pursuit if $60k additional is making me as a parent nervous ā¦ but thatās not what Mavis Spencer and Evie Jobs do, because their families donāt give a f*ck about $60k, or 1 million or even 10s of millions, as they can re-make that over quickly due to continuous income coming into the generational wealth well over time, LOL.
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Didnāt set out to be a cold case homicide detector on this one - but itās an interesting discourse on positions of wealth.
Carry on.
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I think that is why the convo about wealth started. With simply.
If $60k is making you question things. Why are you spending $200k
And this is what I donāt think youāre hearing: Wealthy people can legitimately question expenditures of that size even if they have the money to spend.
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Agreed. The issue is the $200k purchase and sale with the implied commissions of $60k.
My definition of wealth is truly what is upsetting folks (anyone with less than $3-5m outside of primary residence and who is not ACTIVELY contributing to their wealth through a job or lucrative investments beyond what their spend pattern is not āwealthyā and is ānormalā). Hereās a reference if youāre curious why I think folks need to be smarter about $200k decisions if they cannot afford another $60k in related fees. https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/you-wont-believe-how-much-gen-z-and-millennials-will-need-saved-up-to-retire
I think folks over early 30s might have a tough time realizing that $1m isnāt enough for 20 year retirement. The new figure is $3m. Times have changed and that brings up at LOT of emotions and weird feelings of anxiety about money.
ā¦and those $5 Mill in assets best not be in crypto or monkey pics 
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Uh, Mavis Spencer literally took years off riding and worked as a GROOM because her family made her work for it. I think thatās what rubs me the wrong way about your posts: you might have knowledge about wealth management or whatever else you claim to know, but your knowledge about the industry and how horse people actively manage their money is mid at best.
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LOL - just saying. Iāve been in the same room as her MANY times - she trains within 2 hours driving distance from me and a few barn mates have bought horses from her ventures/ partnerships.
She CHOSE to be a groom, but the generational wealth afforded her that opportunity, as well as her parents connections are what got her into acting and modeling which helped her afford some of her lifestyle choices as well as her very prolific junior careerā¦
Youāre out of your mind if you think her parents let her survive truly alone on a paltry grooms salary. Her junior career was full of imported horses from Europe such that she could MAKE those groom connections. Her parents wanted her to stay at Stanford and not be a groom, but they didnāt cut her off financially completely - thatās not how wealthy families work. She still had access to family wealth during that time.
Sheās pretty transparent about āchoosingā to be a groom to learn vs remaining at Stanford because she didnāt have to worry about money. She talks plainly about her massive safety net in person, believe me.
There are articles about folks who come from wealth feeling very comfortable with ārejectingā it temporarily and feel good about taking risks because they know - at the end of the day. They can never truly fail.
Is Mavis Spencer ābetterā than Evie, yeah maybeā¦ I rather hang with Spencer any day as she very clearly acknowledges her positions in life vs others.
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OMG, your generalizations are inane. Dude, just stop.
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Her family didnāt make her work as a groom. She chose because she didnāt want to stay at College - I believe her parents pushed for Stanford (which is what her parents wanted from her interviews and she made Columbia work for her first year working with Kent) and wanted to learn from the greats.
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And here you go againā¦ do you think the rest of us on here havenāt ābeen in the roomā with these folks? Or donāt have crazy rich friends/relatives? Or maybe we are these rich folks ourselves and are close friends with these other rich folks you are referencing, and are having a good giggle at how you are generalizing about how we spend our money?
Just step away from the keyboard and go do some of your math or tech wizardry.
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bahahaha
She trains 2 hours from me so I must know all the inner workings of their financial situation!
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A clarification.
People keep talking about the OP being āwilling to spend $200k on a horseā
But that isnāt the situation.
They already own a horse that is nominally worth $200k. They are proposing to sell it and buy a different horse for $200k. From that perspective, there is no ADDITIONAL investment in horseflesh. The only ADDITIONAL expense is the commission(s)
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The main question I have now is why say, a $200K jumper is needed for a young pro, versus say, a $140K jumper. Is the pro pressuring the client to buy a more expensive horse than is really necessary to inflate the proās commission? Again, these are also legitimate questions to ask, regardless of whether the buyers can technically afford the horse (and because another expensive horse is being sold, the pro may justify pressuring the clients to buy the more expensive horse ābecause they can afford itā).
Even in the entertainment industry, wealth is not infinite. An actor may get a large fee for a film, but that has to last between jobs. Even for very successful artists/media people, regular work is not guaranteed.
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