I can only imagine. I think someone else mentioned this, but maybe pick a cash number you could watch burn and offer it to the trainer. Trainer saying other people are interested could be a ploy. There are a lot of honest people in the world…and there are lots of dishonest ones, especially where money is concerned. Please be sure to pull blood…. And good luck. I feel for you…we all do.
19 Likes
A thought about the horse comfortably jumping 1.2m in shows in Europe, and now he’s only comfortable over 2’6" courses at home … and has acquired a stop at shows that is not operating at home …
I have a feeling that if the jumps go up, the stop probably does as well.
He would need only experienced competent riding over higher jumps than he is doing now to re-connect with his confidence. Otherwise there is a chance of permanently solidifying a recurring stop.
This trainer did a huge amount of damage with her choice of the horse’s early introduction to U.S. showing. I can’t imagine why. If trainer was at all competent she knew she was breaking something that wouldn’t be repaired back to original condition.
There is a trainer-horse backstory that we may never know. Explaining the real reasons the trainer allowed things to unfold as they did for this horse. Something went sideways.
If this horse can find a nice home with a rider who is relaxed about their demands, and willing to stick to what the horse agrees to do, that could be the best outcome for this horse.
9 Likes
Especially as they can all see his USEF record, assuming they have the right memberships.
What is the meaning of “interested” and at what price? The answer to that probably can’t be known, though.
2 Likes
The shopping process sounds stressful and I guess I was honestly hoping to skip it. My trainer has a pretty good reputation in the horse world and has been doing it for 50 years. I’ve heard from several unbiased horse people independently. So I don’t think she means ill intent. She needs riders to show her horses since she can’t physically anymore. I don’t agree with everything they do, but I doubt everyone is perfect.
Also, the area that I’m moving to has no barns with lesson horses in a reasonable distance. Honestly, after getting a taste of a nicer horse, it would be hard to go back to lesson horses, lol. Also, I will only be there for 6 months until I move back, which makes it harder to find another lease.
I know this horse is a gamble & you guys have reassured me a lot! At the end of the day, my goals are flexible, I just want a horse that’s sound, pretty, takes care of me as I get started in the show world, and affectionate is always a plus. Also, a european horse always sounds cool, 
I would add that I have spent an insane amount of time building a relationship with this horse off the ground. Spending hours in his paddock/stall. Grazing, bob-for-apples games, etc. I’m not sure how well that translates under saddle, in the beginning he was pretty spooky with me as well, but lately he hasn’t spooked in even the windiest of days and I have tested him a few times. They told me this horse came from a small family farm with kiddos, so I tried to replicate that environment to make life fun for him again.
I truly wish we had more time, or that I was a good enough rider to jump full courses and truly “test” him. I really appreciate all the great info you all have given!
3 Likes
You’re moving for 6 months?
Lease the horse.
Who knows what will happen when you move him-- huge gamble.
Would not want to own something with a known issue given everything else that’s about to change.
23 Likes
Also, are there ways to reach out to a previous european owner?
I hear your plight, OP. I can hear that you love this horse.
While it is not what I would do, if your heart 110% says do it, do it.
If there is even a shadow of a doubt - don’t.
Edit: I have a horse that “got away” that I should have bought while I had the chance. He was nowhere near perfect, but I loved that horse to death. I don’t wish that regret on anyone, hence my “follow your heart if it has no doubts this is the right move.” If you know, you know.
9 Likes
This horse has proven he will not take care of a rider in the ring.
34 Likes
@carrotgirl I feel that I get what you just posted. In many ways that’s where I am at the current time as well, although already a horse owner. I’m not trying to conquer the world on a horse. I’d like to just keep getting better and have fun on what I have. If I have a horse that can do more, that sounds fun, but it’s not really a goal.
It seems that you are looking for stability and predictability, now that you have a good relationship with this horse. This horse feels like family – and like family, he might act somewhat differently in a new place, but you’ll have each other for familiarity, and once he settles in, it’s the same horse that you have been riding.
Your relationship with this horse is clearly a very big factor. Especially as you aren’t into horse shopping. Much less horse shopping with ambition for showing dreams.
I gather that you are buying him less because he’s got a potentially big showing future with you, and more for the stability of having this horse that you already know with you on your upcoming moves (plural).
Honestly I personally can support that as a rationale for buying him and moving with him. Myself and others I have known over the years have done fairly much the same thing. Taking a familiar horse along with them through life, rather than starting over, perhaps more than once. Living with the horse’s opportunities and limitations as you would with a family member.
The price concern is a fairness concern. I am with those above who say to pick a price and offer it on a take-it-or-leave-it basis. Give the trainer the clear impression that you are about to walk away without him if she doesn’t agree. If she pushes back, don’t answer right away, but give her a couple of days or more to process her options. Veteran sellers tend to value sales happening over actual price. But of course I can’t speak to knowledge of this trainer’s past record and habits.
Trainer probably can’t get more elsewhere, given the horse’s U.S. show history. Unless she is a brilliant salesperson to get other buyers to ignore his USEF record and believe he’s still at the stage of just getting off the plane from Europe. But if any previous prospective buyer believed that, they would already have snatched him up at $50k.
I’m not sure this thread can give you the best fair price for your market, even for your barn where trainer probably sells most of her horses. That’s a very local answer. And I know it is hard without knowing, over the past year or so, what other people have paid for whatever type of horse they bought.
But good luck for a great life with this lovely horse! 
6 Likes
Probably. You may have to push, with tenacity.
Tell the trainer that part of your buying decision is that you really, really need to speak with the previous European owner and/or rider. Who hopefully is fluent in English. The trainer has the contact info, even if through a third party. If she tries, she can make the connection (if she tries).
If you having this conversation helps sell the horse to you – and probably it will, as the previous owner and/or rider will probably have good things to say about him, given his European show record – trainer will probably do her best to enable it happening. Maybe sooner rather than later, to get the deal done.
I really encourage you to do some horse shopping outside of this horse. See what else is out there. Yes horse shopping can be a pain but this horse has some red flags that would have me hesitating.
20 Likes
Agree with this.
OP, in 5 years, in 10 years, what will you wish you had decided now?
That’s a good rule of thumb to go by, when it comes to things that are pulling at the heart.
On the other hand, if you can leave without this horse, get settled into a new horse community, and not think much more about him – in that case, move on without him.
Once purchased, this horse will be taking up a space in your life (and budget) that other, future horses might have occupied – but that space won’t be open and available to them. You may never even find out about them. That’s the other side of the coin to consider.
4 Likes
OP, does your trainer not usually have riders doing courses in lessons? Like, any chance other lessons are doing courses but never yours? I say this because a combination is a pretty safe way to ensure you don’t trigger the stop button. All you have to do is get in to the combination and then, in most cases, there won’t be any chance for “bad striding”. And if you’re trotting in, possibly even with placement poles coming in, there’s very little chance you’re actually getting the kind of bad distances that will trigger a stop.
You need to jump this horse around a course of fences, make real beginner mistakes, and see what happens. It is absolutely not unheard of for a former 1.20m euro import to arrive in the US and decide the sub 3’ ring suits it perfectly fine thankyouverymuch, but I think it’s a bit odd that at no point in a multi-month lease has this trainer had you bop around an actual course of fences, where you are free to make bad choices.
I say this in all kindness, you cannot know this with absolute assurance.
Approaching this another way. If you were to go out shopping with this wish list and a $50K budget I think there would be a good amount of very suitable horses for you to sit on. Horses with current records, reasonable ages, and the ability for you to get on and immediately jump a test course. If you were to go shopping with, say, $35K, I think your pickings would start to get much slimmer, and you would probably be looking at much older animals.
I guess what I’m saying is, if you came here and said you were paying 35K for this animal I would have probably let it slide. To each their own and heck, maybe he is just happier with you. But 50K is a lot of money for most people, and what you’re describing definitely has red flag potential. You are assuming a great deal of risk here for the sole purpose of maybe showing in the 1m one day… and that’s just not a goal that should be laden with that much risk.
32 Likes
@carrotgirl, another thing to consider is that right now this horse in a program where he feels comfortable. You already know he has a stopping problem at the shows. Maybe that’s due to the higher jumps, or maybe it’s because he doesn’t do well in unfamiliar places. If you purchase this horse and he moves with you, every single thing about his new circumstances is going to be unfamiliar. You may find yourself with a totally different horse than the one you know now.
18 Likes
Have you thought through the challenges of relocating a horse, finding a new vet/farrier/saddle fitter/trainer with a similar style/body worker/etc? That alone can take 6 months.
Have you thought about flying back 2x/month for this period instead and lessoning twice a day Saturday and Sunday? You’ll get in 8 rides a month and six months will absolutely fly by. I just job transitioned and someone asked me how long it has been and I said two months, paused, and realized it had been FIVE. With moving and change time disappears quickly. The stress of being a first time owner short term in a community could be pretty stressful.
23 Likes
Ask yourself why isn’t your trainer trying to advertise this horse in the child/adult jumper division. Competitive horses are going for high 5 low 6 figures. If this horse needed a step down in height this would be its bread and butter. Makes sense right, but they are not because the horse can’t do it.
Next is my guess is dollars to donuts your trainer is medicating this horse. You just aren’t aware of it.
Then once you buy him the wheels will most likely fall off. You said you are moving out of state. Your new trainer/barn isn’t going to be able to fix this train wreck when it happens.
If it were me I wait to move, find a new trainer/barn and lease or buy then.
Hope things work out but have a feeling it won’t. Sorry op.
16 Likes
So why not get a different rider to ride around a course (not necessarily your trainer)?
I’m also a little confused why you aren’t riding courses. Do you mean not riding courses of any size? Because even beginner kids do cross rail and tiny vertical courses on their ponies.
I don’t mean to interrogate, but it’s always important to think about buying the horse you need in the future, not just right now. Maybe now you are happy just jumping a jump or two and flatting, but that doesn’t sound where you want to be in a year.
17 Likes
They adopt the European-way of training when you do flatwork, flatwork, flatwork, for even years before you’re “solid” enough to start jumping. I’m currently doing 3 jumps at 2’6, with a bounce and a rollback turn.
I asked to do an offsite course with another rider and they were willing to do so, but with the same rider that horse doesn’t like. Which in my eyes, kind of defeated the purpose of going.
3 Likes
Another weird thing, he started showing within days of arrival to the US and he had a stop since the first show. I saw his sale ads in europe and yes, its the same horse. Interesting. Trainer says they tested for drugs for their ppe, nothing came up. Both at home and at shows he always was an issue.
1 Like
I say buy the horse. You clearly love him, and it sounds you are a good while away from showing at anything close to 1.00 anyway. I wouldn’t be surprised if just by you staying at 0.80 and under for a while, why you get to know each other, that the stopping just leaves his brain.
3 Likes
