Congress says horses are livestock

[TheMoo]

@Bluey

I think that you are confusing defending your property, here horses, as Guilherme has explanied, chattel you own, with defending yourself or your human family.

There are laws addressing both.

Depending on the circumstances, no, you can’t go killing someone just because they are threatening your possessions, even if those are your horses.
You can kill a dog chasing your horses, not a kid chasing them.

You really can’t make laws as you go, with how you feel about things and expect them to fit everyone else, just because you feel like it.

I am sure that Guilherme can explain this better.

Your explanation is perfect and made me laugh! @CL Moonriver I don’t know where you live, but the livestock designation gets to be important when one isn’t in no mans land. The farm town I grew up in is no longer a farm town. It started changing before I moved away. Having horses designated as livestock helped me and my family with our barn that was just for us. It kept the Com’eres at bay when they moved in next door. Lord knows there were enough complaints by the new comers about the few farms left.

ETA: A reasonable threat to you is how that law is usually applied. @Guilherme can correct me if I’m wrong.

[CL_Moonriver]

@TheMoo I think the whole thread has gotten way off topic.Which I admit is partially, it not mostly, my fault. After all pets and livestock are both considered property in the end. So whether you can or cannot use deadly force to protect them is not really relevant to this discussion.

I am well known for letting my emotions get the better of me. (That said, I can legally use deadly force to protect my horses under my local laws.)

[TheMoo]

@CL Moonriver

@TheMoo I think the whole thread has gotten way off topic.Which I admit is partially, it not mostly, my fault. After all pets and livestock are both considered property in the end. So whether you can or cannot use deadly force to protect them is not really relevant to this discussion.

I am well know for letting my emotions get the better of me.

I think it’s a good discussion. When I had horses at home I was well within my right to shoot animals, someone’s pet dog or otherwise, that harassed my livestock. In my case horses. However, you were not allowed to discharge firearms within a certain amount of distance from a house. So per that law we were outta luck with shooting the dog. However, the recourse we did have was just as effective.

And like I said it depends on where you live. As farm land gets bought up and chopped up, the livestock designation becomes more important in my experience.

That also doesnt mean I don’t think of my horse as one of my “kids” and do everything possible to ensure she’s happy and healthy. Like you I do not have the human variety, but I do see the importance of horses being considered livestock.

[Where_sMyWhite]

@TheMoo

When I had horses at home I was well within my right to shoot animals, someone’s pet dog or otherwise, that harassed my livestock.

This is the case in many states/local jurisdictions. Note the use of the word “livestock”. The law is usually written as harassing livestock. One good reason to keep horses classes as livestock and not ‘pets’.

[Where_sMyWhite]

@CL Moonriver

That said, I can legally use deadly force to protect my horses under my local laws.)

Let me know when you go to trial for committing homicide to protect your horses…

[Guilherme]

@CL Moonriver

@TheMoo I think the whole thread has gotten way off topic.Which I admit is partially, it not mostly, my fault. After all pets and livestock are both considered property in the end. So whether you can or cannot use deadly force to protect them is not really relevant to this discussion.

I am well known for letting my emotions get the better of me. (That said, I can legally use deadly force to protect my horses under my local laws.)

Indeed.

If you are in TX you have some of the Nation’s most lenient laws on protection of property using force. But I can pretty much guarantee you that if you shoot someone you claim is trying shoot, steal, vandalize, abuse, or in any other way negatively interfere with your property I hope you have either a lot of money or are signed on with the NRA and have purchased some of the protection insurance they sell/sponsor. It would also be a good idea to ring your property with multiple cameras so your lawyer has something to work with.

I’ve said before letting the Romance of Horses get the better of you can lead to bad results. You have just validated the observation.

Don’t do what you have suggested you might.

G.

[candyappy]

@CL Moonriver

As I said before, I’m 42, unmarried, and have no children other than my horses. I will do what I have to to protect them, including killing.

If a person / human shows up on my land and points a gun at one of my horses? I will kill that person / human just like I would any other animal that was a threat to my horses. And under my particular state law, I will be justified in doing so.

What has happened to rational thinking ? It is thoughts like this that make me shudder and wonder what the future holds.

[Scribbler]

@candyappy

What has happened to rational thinking ? It is thoughts like this that make me shudder and wonder what the future holds.

And make me happy to live in Canada.

[caffeinated]

@CL Moonriver

I guess I’ll be the only dissenter here and say that I am NOT in favor of keeping them classified as livestock. I suppose the reason is that I work with rescue horses. We can seize abused and neglected horses when law enforcement calls us in for assistance. The problem is since they are classified as livestock and not pets, there is no legal way we can prevent the same person from going out and getting another horse the very next day. If someone has a history of abusing or neglecting pets, legally that person can be prohibited from owning another pet for a certain period of time. But with livestock? There is no such provision. So we can seize a neglected or abused horse under court order. And literally, the very next day, that person can legally get another horse. And there isn’t anything we can do to stop them.

This is location dependent, and often varies by severity of the case not only for livestock but for pets too.

(also… eta… remind me to read the whole thread first before responding, LOL).

[pAin_t_Misbehavin]

@CL Moonriver - as Guilherme said, if you shoot someone for any reason whatsoever, count on being sued in civil court either by your victim, if he survives, or by his heirs, if he doesn’t.
Also, no matter your state law, it doesn’t protect you from prosecution - it just gives you a defense to the criminal charge. For the defense to be successful, your lawyers will need to be able to prove certain conditions existed - not even Texas thinks you can shoot anybody over any piece of property in any given circumstance.
I agree with Guilherme. Don’t.do.it.

[clanter]

Originally posted by CL Moonriver View Post
I guess I’ll be the only dissenter here and say that I am NOT in favor of keeping them classified as livestock.

none of our horses are for human consumption, they are pets

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as for protection here in Texas having a nice big German Shepherd Dog that you take into public view often so everyone is aware that you have this thing with Lots of Big White Shiny Teeth is pretty much all is needed