Connemara stallions in North America

[goodpony]

Connemaras are just like any other breed–there are going to be some that are more difficult than others. Some are more challenging to get going with and others that simply stay that way. Most often what I have seen with the breed is some very young ponies turned over to some very inexperienced or sometimes very nervous/inexperienced riders and be either spoilt or terrified by poor early experiences. I’ve said this before but don’t ever teach a Connemara something you don’t want them to repeat–because chances are pretty good they will remember–and repeat and repeat and repeat.

That being said Connemaras are still a pony breed (no matter how horselike some can be) and as such their temperament and character is not suited to people who don’t understand/appreciate Ponies because in my experience they are different, they learn differently and their since of fairness/justice and self preservation is about 99.9% keener than that of your typical Warmblood.

[WindyIsles]

[QUOTE=zorse;6384630]
So, apparently your Conne/TB was very different from my experience of the cross. Because the Connemaras I know are HOT.

My sister bred a TB mare to a Connemara stallion about 10 years ago. She wanted to create a competitive eventer. The mare was a proven broodmare - used to foaling big WB babies. She was 16.1h so my sister thought she’d get something about 15.2hish. I forget who the stallion was but he had the special eventing bloodlines (Erin Go Bragh, etc).

The product of the breeding is 15h, very compact, very narrow, feels like a 13h pony. She is also very, very, very sensitive. She is a good jumper but hot and, like I said, very sensitive. This horse will never, in a million years, be an ami-friendly horse and she needs a very particular pro rider to get anything out of her too.

There is a Conn/TB mare for sale in our area. She looks EXACTLY like my sister’s mare. Also 15h, also plain bay, also very narrow and compact. Also very sensitive and a difficult ride.

If you’re looking to make an ami-friendly horse, honestly I wouldn’t breed a Connemara. Connemaras are awesome - I love them. They’re so athletic and you’re right, the super ponies in Europe are all Connemaras. But those ponies are DIFFICULT. They’ll jump the moon but nearly kill the kid in the process.

I’ve known of some bloodlines in N.Am that are more calmer but the ponies are less athletic too.[/QUOTE]

Erin Go Bragh does produce a more sensitive/hot and can be difficult line. Athletic out the wazoo yes, but can be difficult.

That line (and some of the Greystone lines) are more horse than pony-blooded and can have the corresponding temperament.

Research your bloodlines. Look for more pony-blooded individuals.

There are some lines I know throw a more difficult temperament that I will not touch unless I have a mare (or she is from a line) that is super quiet and easy going.

Many of the older American lines may as well be halfbreds in blood despite having the designation of “purebred” there was so much thoroughbred influence in the early breeding of the breed in this country.

Coming from Ireland where I grew up on this breed and my family has bred it for generations I was shocked at the stereotype that the Connemara has in America (still find myself being so at times I’ll admit).

[Graymaresrule]

[QUOTE=WindyIsles;6384986]
[B]Erin Go Bragh does produce a more sensitive/hot and can be difficult line. Athletic out the wazoo yes, but can be difficult.

That line (and some of the Greystone lines) are more horse than pony-blooded and can have the corresponding temperament.[/B]

Research your bloodlines. Look for more pony-blooded individuals.

There are some lines I know throw a more difficult temperament that I will not touch unless I have a mare (or she is from a line) that is super quiet and easy going.

Many of the older American lines may as well be halfbreds in blood despite having the designation of “purebred” there was so much thoroughbred influence in the early breeding of the breed in this country.

Coming from Ireland where I grew up on this breed and my family has bred it for generations I was shocked at the stereotype that the Connemara has in America (still find myself being so at times I’ll admit).[/QUOTE]

I have two 1/2 Conn mares, one by EGB and one by Greystone Special Edition. Both have their quirks and the *Gunsmoke filly out of the EGB mare is quite the little pistol. I bred the EGB mare to Bridon Belfrey RID and that filly is one of my best

[Perfect_Pony]

I am only a bit put off by the TB crosses as I actually like the sensitive but level-headed type that seems to be the personality of so many PB Connemaras I have met, I would imagine infusing the TB blood might take that sensitive over the edge a bit with some of them. But I also think that how the ponies are raised is so important like goodpony has said. People love to talk about how easy and good and “perfect” my pony is, but she was very sensitive. The first time she was backed she really freaked out and dumped her rider, and she had many times where she could have freaked out and let her sensitive side take over. Dealing with those incidents could have been make or break moments for her. When she would get worried she would literally just stop and not budge and just look at you for guidance with her eyes as big as saucers. If she had a person that either got worried, or tried to force or muscle her around, she could have been a very, VERY bad pony.

I cannot imagine her combined with the athleticism of a TB that had a serious flight instinct!

But, with regards to the OP, it sounds like she has a very nice TB mare that is a special horse and the love of her life, she also obviously has experience with TB mares I think a nice Connemara stallion crossed with her would likely be exactly the horse she would want.

[MuskokaLakesConnemaras]

…

The only time I have seen truly hot Connemaras was in Europe… but they seem to be bred much more “sporty” over there. Still learning and its been my fortune to have ponies with phenomenal temperaments and excellent brains

The only crosses I do here are with the Irish Draughts. LOVE that mix and they have been lovely so far

It would make sense though that the highly competitive pony athletes would be hotter. Does not surprise me in the least.

[Graymaresrule]

[QUOTE=MuskokaLakesConnemaras;6385548]
The only time I have seen truly hot Connemaras was in Europe… but they seem to be bred much more “sporty” over there. Still learning and its been my fortune to have ponies with phenomenal temperaments and excellent brains

The only crosses I do here are with the Irish Draughts. LOVE that mix and they have been lovely so far

It would make sense though that the highly competitive pony athletes would be hotter. Does not surprise me in the least.[/QUOTE]
One of my best crosses has been my EGB mare to the RID Bridon Belfrey.

My other mare is supposedly Conn/trak and has produced several nice sport horses. Just so no one says I’m advertising check out Penmerryl’s Moonshadow
http://www.evanssporthorses.com/horsessold.asp
owned by poster SLR and is probably not for sale.

FWIW the Irish inspectors were very impresses with Sophie, though they were quite disappointed to learn she is probably 1/4 trak:eek:

[SLW]

[QUOTE=goodpony;6384865]
That being said Connemaras are still a pony breed (no matter how horselike some can be) and as such their temperament and character is not suited to people who don’t understand/appreciate Ponies because in my experience they are different, they learn differently and their since of fairness/justice and self preservation is about 99.9% keener than that of your typical Warmblood.[/QUOTE]

Ditto your remarks above. My 11 year old FB Connemara has her pony moments and I’ve learned that if I react like a fearless 12 year old horse crazy girl, and not the middle aged woman I am, the results are excellent. I am crazy thrilled with my mare.

FTR, her sire is Tre Awain De Valera, who I think is an older guy now.

[Small_Change]

@Perfect Pony;6385536

But, with regards to the OP, it sounds like she has a very nice TB mare that is a special horse and the love of her life, she also obviously has experience with TB mares I think a nice Connemara stallion crossed with her would likely be exactly the horse she would want.

That is very kind of you. I really do like TB’s, and I adored my first connie/TB cross - he was as hot as anything, but would think his way through things and look to his rider for help before losing his noodle. I’ve ridden a lot of TB’s (and it’s likely due at least in part to their start under saddle) that get hot, go into orbit, and then need to be brought down to earth again before getting back to work. Peanut, my original, was out of a hot, slightly crazy mare - she became a broodmare because life in the ring melted her brain (it was a long, sad story, but while she was great to hack over hill and dale, she just could not handle being in a ring). He was just as hot as her, but his connie daddy gave him some thoughtfulness and trust than his dam just didn’t have.

Peanut set the barn kind of high for any future crossbreds, but I really am hoping for something pretty neat out of Darla if I can make this happen.

[mbm]

i think you should research Rory O Sullivan. He is frozen, but what i would give to have a foal by him!

[mbm]

his G father on one side produced a GP pony, his G father on the other side produced a dynasty of European dressage ponies

[goodpony]

[QUOTE=mbm;6387315]
his G father on one side produced a GP pony, his G father on the other side produced a dynasty of European dressage ponies :)[/QUOTE]

maybe you should tell us who those ponies are MBM since the research is so fresh in your mind?

[mbm]

oh sorry, i am a bit bleary since i had to take some allergy medication

Rorys grandfather on the top side Dobh McDuff produced BALLYWHIM ARDAN MOR who has shown FEI dressage with young riders…

On his bottom side is Rory Ruadh who has created a dynasty of European dressage ponys ,

I love Rory and will breed to him at some point…

[goodpony]

I hope you realize Rory Ruadhs success was largely due to one mare:the Elite Mare Ardnisillagh Treasure.

And this is how she bred: http://www.sukuposti.net/hevonen/hae/jalkelaiset/8483

Like someone else pointed out one pony hardly makes a dynasty but when you look at Treasures influence through her offspring and subsequently their offspring…you get the picture.

For jumping blood Small Change is on the right track–Carna Bobby all the way! JMO but this is a pony bred to jump! Great Pedigree! That being said most Connemaras can jump very well–though some are better than other as far as technique/style ect.

[mbm]

no slight meant to the mares in the pedigree…as the europeans say when you name a stallion you are just as much naming the mare line…

eta: i see what you are getting at… but i still think that Rory Ruadh had a HUGE influence on dressage pony breeding and that come from his sire who is also in many pedigrees other than Rory’s Ruadhs.

Given Rory O Sullivans athletic prowess and also the shear athletic ability of many of the Rory Ruadh offspring, i will continue to think that his line is the line to look to if you want predictable athletic ability in a dressage type package

Treasure is also a pony that produced lovely progeny, but personally it is the Rory line who i adore

fwiw here are Rory Ruadh’s offpsring - note Janice, Rolls Royce, Tootle U, etc etc

http://www.sukuposti.net/hevonen/hae/jalkelaiset/14898

[mbm]

what has silver shadow produced jumper wise? i dont keep up on jumper breeding…

[goodpony]

There is a great thread here on COTH about Rory Ruadh for those that are interested:http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/showthread.php?t=140848

Tootle U Is by Rory Ruadh and out of O.Tresmeralda (Oxenholm Godot x A. Treasure). O. Godot is considered one of the best Broodmare Sires. (probably due to his assocation with Treasure

Here is some a breakdown of close relatives and offspring (IRE):Silver Shadow

[WindyIsles]

[QUOTE=goodpony;6387748]
There is a great thread here on COTH about Rory Ruadh for those that are interested:http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/showthread.php?t=140848

Tootle U Is by Rory Ruadh and out of O.Tresmeralda (Oxenholm Godot x A. Treasure). O. Godot is considered one of the best Broodmare Sires. (probably due to his assocation with Treasure

Here is some a breakdown of close relatives and offspring (IRE):Silver Shadow[/QUOTE]

Cloonisle Cashel was considered to be the best producing son of Abbeyleix Owen (who is second only to Carna Bobby in the amount of sons approved as stallions in the breed). He died very young at 9 or 11.

[goodpony]

Not only have I heard what WI has said above–Ive heard excellent reports on the broodmare sire Poetic Justice. This is from Syndicate Linaro’s website:

• Poetic Justice SL started at stud in Sweden in 1992, initially covering only his owner’s broodmares. He was only presented for approval in Sweden in 1996, under pressure from the Swedish Connemara Pony Association.
• In the trials of his first offspring, they immediately showed a talent beyond the ordinary, no matter who their dam (Connemara, OI, Swedish riding ponies or big mares) They show an innate sense of take-off, use their backs very well and have great scope and spirit. His offspring, certain of which have been exported to Ireland and Italy, have all shown an excellent jumping ability, without exception.
• One of his daughters, Poetic Girl (out of Ranch House Lady by Cummer Park Minstrel), and was exported to Ireland as a 5-year-old. From the 200 ponies taking part, she qualified for the Millstreet finals, open to the ten best. She then took part in the European Championships at Lanaken in 2002 at the age of 7-years-old jumping for Ireland (an exceptional phenomenon for the Irish team who always ride Irish-bred ponies).
• In Sweden, Poetic Shano (out of Gorey Rose) won the ‘Stockholm Horse Show’ in 2002. The ponies try to qualify for this big competition between March and November. On the last day, the final of 1m40 (and 1m30 for the C ponies) is open to the eight best ponies. That year, in 2002, three of the eight pony finalists were by Poetic Justice SL! Poetic Shano subsequently competed in CSIP, as did Poetic News (out of Norelja).
• Poetic Bessy (full sister to Poetic Girl), unfortunately deceased, was Swedish 6-year-old pony champion. Poetic Hamlet (out of Hazelnut) and Pride (out of Lillsätras Bellami) won classes of 1m30.
• Three C ponies by Poetic Justice are also well-known competition ponies, having competed in 1m20 classes: Poetic Annie (out of Myrens Anitra), Poetic Byron (out of Myrens Anitra) and Little Wonder (out of Little Arrow - the latter won the ‘Stockholm Horse Show’ in 2004)
• Poetic Pillycock, a further of his offspring from a horse broodmare, competed in Italy over 1m50. Still in Italy, Poetic Cassio, Poetic Lisia and Poetic Cordelia took part in the finals at Rome and Verona (1m15/1m20).
• In Sweden he is the 4th best sire of show jumping ponies.
• In France, his daughter Licia (f, Oep, by Norelja) show jumps in Grand Prix and internationals successful with Paola Guelpa. She was notably placed 5th in the CSIPO Grand Prix du CSIOP at Grobbendonk (Belgium), obtaining IPO 145 in 2009. In 2010, she was placed several times in the big CSIP classes at Manerbio (Italy), 8th in the CSIOP Grand Prix du CSIOP at Lamprechthausen (Germany), French Vice-Champion in As Excellence, and represented France at the European Championships at Bishop Burton (England).
• Golden Star (out of Beauty by Chamrock) competes Grand Prix for Sweden and in 2009 won the Grobbendonk CSIOP Grand Prix and the Nations Cup at Freudenberg (Germandy).
• Poetic Justice SL is equally the sire of the dam of the Connemara performance stallion Silver Shadow.
• Poetic Justice SL is graded Elite en Suède.
• His son Poetic Kelly, who impressed loose-jumping, was approved in Sweden in 2009.
• Poetic Justice SL covered 58 mares during his first real season at stud in France in 2009: this makes him the 6th most demanded stallion. He was 14th and the 6th Connemara of this ranking in 2010 with 42 mares.

There is also a report on the ICCPS website:Poetic Justice offspring shine in Showjumping