Considering opening up a boarding/lesson barn. 😱. I got questions

[Alterration]

@S1969

I would offer to schedule/hold with your vet of choice, but if their vet of choice - it’s on them to schedule/hold. For vaccines and deworming, I might say - let me know by XYZ date or your horse will be scheduled and charges added to your next bill. Or something like that. Not sure how other barns do it.

Just as an added note, this is sort of what I do, but I do include a fecal and deworming in the board. If a horse has to have something special, their veterinarian needs to be included in that conversation, and I’m willing to flex there.

Now, that works with the “brand” I am building. Not all barns are the same. A barn with more casual DIY-ers may not like that approach. And that’s part of what you need to assess as well - what kind of a barn will you be and how will you differentiate yourself from the rest. It all kind of has to fit together - if you’re a serious barn for serious riders, then you’re going to do care/feeding/cleaning/cost differently than if you’re a chill barn for happy-go-lucky trail riders and beginners (not that trail riders don’t do good care, it just tends to be a different attitude toward what is and is not expected). You have a lesson program already, and it sounds like some schoolies, so I’m guessing you’re mostly a beginner/teen kind of place? Your rules, expectations, and charges will have to work with that type of place.

That’s why the answer is “is $500/mo doable” is really hard to answer. For the type of care I want to provide at my full care facility, no, there’s no way we could do it at $500 a month without skimping. For a backyard “only provides 4 flakes of hay no matter the size of horse”, no blanket changes, DIY kind of facility it might.

[Angela_Freda]

Excellent suggestion, the price of wood is shooting up, and all along that production line, things could fluctuate wildly.

[S1969]

@Alterration

For a backyard “only provides 4 flakes of hay no matter the size of horse”, no blanket changes, DIY kind of facility it might.

I think a lot of “backyard barns” are better about hay than the larger barns where multiple staff are feeding throughout the day so they need to really control access and limits or it could become very costly. But I agree - smaller barns may not offer blanket changes or, possibly just on/off once a day, etc. And many other things.

More casual DIY-ers may refer an a la carte menu whereby they can choose to pay for additional services, or not. That’s fair.

So to the OP - think about thinks like blanket changes - don’t do it “as a favor” or “well I’m right there anyway”. Because that can change into 90 minutes of unpaid work for you before you know it.

Think about that with regard to “just another flake” or “hold for my farrier just this once”, etc. Of course you want to be flexible and accommodating; and everyone has that time they literally can’t get to the barn but thought they could…but if you get ahead of those questions in advance it will be better.

[Alterration]

@S1969

I think a lot of “backyard barns” are better about hay than the larger barns where multiple staff are feeding throughout the day so they need to really control access and limits or it could become very costly. But I agree - smaller barns may not offer blanket changes or, possibly just on/off once a day, etc. And many other things.

More casual DIY-ers may refer an a la carte menu whereby they can choose to pay for additional services, or not. That’s fair.

Oh yes - for sure - I just meant that depending on what kind of facility you choose to run, your costs may be different. That’s all

[chai]

You have been given some great advice already, but I’ll throw in my 2 cents because I have worked in a big, professional barn, managed a co-op and had my own barn with boarders for many years.

1. What is your relationship like with the farm owner? Are they there long-term and understand that they are giving up their privacy to have 10 boarders coming and going on their property?
2. Be very careful about who you let in as a boarder. You want to keep it as drama free as possible because there is nothing that will take the fun out of your beloved hobby faster than a nasty person in your barn.
3. Make sure you only take in people who are really dedicated to their horse’s well-being. If you have a heart, it is impossible to look the other way if an owner is lax on shoeing or care of their horse. Believe me - we actually bought a boarder’s horse because she was going to sell it to a terrible auction barn.
4. Are you sharing a ring or indoor with other people? If so, check on the scheduling set up before you add 10 boarders to the barn.
5. Help - feeding, mucking and turn out/turn in for 10 boarders plus your own horses is a lot of work and really time consuming. Have you considered the cost of help? $500 a month per boarder won’t go very far if you have to hire someone to muck/feed/do night check.
6. How to handle vet appointments/farrier appointments/ create an understanding right away that if there is an emergency, you have the owner’s permission to call the vet right away.
   I wish you all the best. It’s a great life caring for horses and teaching. The more you know going into it, the more successful you will be.

[foggythistle]

I think we’ve messed up the math a little bit. Freebird wants 10 boarders. Freebird has 5 horses of her own. That’s 15 horses. That means instead of paying 1500 for 10 horses, it’s 2250 for 15 horses, of which $750 is coming out of Freebird’s pocket Just For Freebird’s Horses.

Freebird, are you additionally ‘paying board’ on your 5? I get that some are school horses and will be working to earn their keep. But will they work enough to pay for all 5 of your horses? Or is the board charged for the other 2/3 of the barn occupants supposed to cover the expenses of your 3 that aren’t working?

What if some disaster happens and you aren’t able to teach or train for 2 weeks, 4 weeks, 2 months (weather/horse malady/human malady). Can you make it on the income from the boarders?

[anon68314200]

https://www.facebook.com/Probarnmanagement/

[Freebird]

@foggythistle

I think we’ve messed up the math a little bit. Freebird wants 10 boarders. Freebird has 5 horses of her own. That’s 15 horses. That means instead of paying 1500 for 10 horses, it’s 2250 for 15 horses, of which $750 is coming out of Freebird’s pocket Just For Freebird’s Horses

I have 5 Equines total - 2 are donkeys - that are at my own house. This barn is down the road. My personal facility doesn’t have a barn, and my current arena is tiny.

I would only be bringing 2 of my personal horses to use for lessons,pmts using a third. I would honestly be ok with even just 4 or 5 boarders. I just say 10 because I can care for ten and it not take all day.

My main reason for considering this, is that it would allow me to teach more lessons. Right now, if it rains,I have to cancel, since at my house I only have a run in shed, and overhang off my feedshed. At a barn we could have indoor lessons during bad weather. And there tons more room, plus a bathroom.

[candyappy]

I hope you can get the details worked out to suit you and make a profit. I hope we haven’t completely ruined your dreams!

[Cat_Tap]

To make a long story short you do not make any money boarding horses. I once figured out how many hours I was putting in and realized I made 2 dollars per hour. Any cash you make will be in lessons. I was fortunate to have several ex show hunters to use as school horses, My profit ended up being used for repairs and upgrades. I did have my own farm and had an off farm full time job. I was putting in 16 hour days, 7 days a week and no vacations.

In the end it was worth it, I have a great place to show for the hard work, am down to 4 horses, 3 of my own and one boarder.40years later.

It can be done.

[foggythistle]

Ahh, the situation becomes more clear. For every equine that doesn’t move into the barn, that’s that much less that you owe the property owner. It wasn’t clear from your earlier posts that this barn comes with an indoor that would allow all-weather teaching.

Who will be owning the tractor, etc to maintain the facilities? And who is doing that maintenance?

[lovezehorses]

As others have said, buisness plans give you the whole picture. When making a buisness plan, you want to plan to still have money left over for emergencies such as barn maintenance or a bad hay year.

[Angela_Freda]

Or the primary needing to hire help should they get sick or injured.

[trubandloki]

@S1969

So to the OP - think about thinks like blanket changes - don’t do it “as a favor” or “well I’m right there anyway”. Because that can change into 90 minutes of unpaid work for you before you know it.

I think this needs to be repeated.

Think about the times that Dobbin goes out naked and comes in needing a blanket but managed to turn himself into a dirt/mud coated beast while outside.
Doing blankets is not just the time it takes to toss on a cover. Sometimes it involves grooming.

[TheDBYC]

@trubandloki

I think this needs to be repeated.

Think about the times that Dobbin goes out naked and comes in needing a blanket but managed to turn himself into a dirt/mud coated beast while outside.
Doing blankets is not just the time it takes to toss on a cover. Sometimes it involves grooming.

I did evening chores at a nice dressage barn. The sheer amount of time it took getting everyone dressed in even their fly sheets was staggering. Especially when the design of high-quality horse clothing all seem to require a PhD in Engineering to put on & take off

[ElementFarm]

The general rule is that boarding is a barely break-even proposition at best. It’s generally subsidized by the ‘real’ business (e.g. lessons, shows, sales, training, etc). So are you going to be be able to have time/energy/opportunity to teach enough lessons to make the boarding worth it?

For me, the answer is HELL NO. I was a pro (not a BO) for years, now a happy ammie. I’ve boarded at dozens of barns in multiple countries, and am now on my 7th year of happily keeping my horses at home.

Where you live and current board costs for the area is key. What amenities are other places in your planned price-range offering? What can you do better?
BL: even with BM experience, you might not appreciate how much it costs to keep horses.

I have my own place, but about the size/scope of what you’re talking about (8-10) horses at any given time. over a year, I spend about
hay: 9,000
grain: 6,000
shavings:5,000
tractor payment: 5,400
farm/fence materials and repairs: 1,500

I spend an average of 3-4 hrs a day doing turn in/out, stalls, blanketing, dragging or fertilizing pastures, ring maintenance. (I work full time, so more like 2.5 hrs/weekdays and 6-10 hrs/weekend days) Let’s say you’re really efficient and can do it all in 3.5 hrs each day (not including lessons/training rides which would be billed separately). 3.5 hrs/day x 365days x $10= $12,775 and that’s paying yourself pretty little. Can you afford your rent and car payment and groceries on that? Presumably you have a ‘real’ full time job that actually pays the bills. But the time you spend doing that is time you’re not at the barn teaching, cleaning stalls, holding horses for the farrier, fixing fencing, or dealing with emergency vet/or injuries.

So, if your costs for 10 stalls (with boarders only, no horses of your own) is 150x10=1500 x 12 mos=18,000/yr (this seems high for dry stalls),

So, using my numbers: 9x stalls, 8-10 horses, in central NC cost-of-living, you’d be out: $44,900 yr/in expenses NOT including your pittance. That’s with you doing ALL the work yourself. Plan to pay $15+/hr if you need additional help, but that eats a lot into the budget. If you’re getting $350/month in board, that’s only $42,000 in board coming in (with every stall filled all the time). So you’re not even breaking even, and that’s not even including start up costs:
jumps, stall fans, feed bins, purchase of any tools/supplies (I would not let a tenant use my tools, tractor, mower, etc.). It also doesn’t include things like grass seed, fertilizer, or replacement parts and boards for fencing and barn damages. Barn, arena, and pasture maintenance take a lot of time and expensive equipment.

My math might not be exact for your location, but at first glance, I don’t think your numbers look reasonable. Add in a lesson horse or two, and/or a personal horse, and the math gets even more dismal. You might expect all the boarders to take 2x lessons a week, but they’ll mean well, but then money gets tight, or the horse injured, or work gets busy, and all of the sudden, you’re not getting that planned-on income.
And what’s not quantifiable is the stress of being a BO. Dealing with annoying or entitled clients, people who are always late on board, difficult horses who escape, break fences, kick other horses and are obnoxious to deal with. I’ve had a single boarder a time or two at my personal farm, and it’s been okay, but honestly still not worth it. Clients want to see pristine stalls and water buckets any/every time they’re at the barn. Why doesn’t Princess (who’s a pig in her stall) have more bedding? Can Snookie have a different grain? Sparky needs a very specific blanket according to the weather and here’s a chart and his 23 sheets and blankets. Boarders who haven’t had their own place VASTLY underestimate the cost of horse keeping (farm maintenance costs are a beast) and think it’s just hay and grain. And don’t underestimate the time drain.

If you want to be a full time professional in the industry, I’d recommend just working f/t for a good barn in the area as an instructor, rider, or BM. Get a per-hour paycheck or reliable salary, and let the owners stay awake at night wondering how they’re going to pay the hay bill this month.

[skrgirl]

You will need a backup person to do barn work in the event that you have an emergency/ you get sick/ want a vacation or night off/ etc that keeps you from the barn.

[McGurk]

Great post. Excellent break down on costs. Even if the OP’s exact costs aren’t the same, the overall picture is. Wish I could like it more than once.

[clanter]

@ElementFarm

Boarders who haven’t had their own place VASTLY underestimate the cost of horse keeping (farm maintenance costs are a beast) and think it’s just hay and grain. And don’t underestimate the time drain.

then add in its 105F or minus 40F … makes one want to open the gate and push the things out onto the street… but I know if the gates were open rather than leaving more would show up

[McGurk]

IMO, biggest invisible cost on a decently maintained farm is pasture maintenence. The cost of lime, fertilizer, seed, equipment maintenence and diesel are my biggest expense, after the farrier.

I consider it worth it, because my well maintained pastures mean that I don’t have to feed any where near as much hay, but it’s a chunk of change that’s invisible to most boarders.