Pray tell, who indicated the price of Catch Me and/or Belgravia? Or that of another specific, elite, contemporary hunter? Please quote that previously stated data?
Perhaps it is you whose literacy is in question?
1 Like
Most people I know that drop six figures on a horse never say what they paid. Nor do the people who assisted them in the transaction. People have offered what they have sold horses for and that’s about as good as you’re going to get. You would know this if you’ve actually been around such people and horses.
13 Likes
If the definition of “qualified” is actually “someone who has paid this price for a top hunter and is willing to name the price and horse,” @McAngie , I think you’re going to be quite frustrated.
19 Likes
A friend is currently riding and winning a lot at most big shows right now, she had good showings at Washington this week after winning all the things the week before. One horse is an in barn lease, and one is a domestic failed jumper she bought a few years back (3-5?) for low-mid 5 figures. She’s a good amateur rider, not a savant, but in a good program with no one super famous, and she works hard at her hobby (alongside running her own business and having a young family).
If the real question is how much for one or two particular horses, that seems like it’s easier to address by contacting those owners directly. Worth/value and cost can be very different things.
Sidenote, I generally think that new and immediately contentious members are old members who’ve been banned relatively recently hahaha or, less interesting, lost their log-in info.
16 Likes
Also, some horses are “priceless” in that they won’t be for sale and no amount of money, or blank check even, will persuade owner to sell them. If you have tens of millions, hundreds of millions, billions… I’d imagine you could turn down just about any dollar figure, even legit mid-high 6 figures. Or float the 750k price tag out there just to see if you could get it.
5 Likes
This,this, this!!!
1 Like
Since we’re all posting credentials I just want to clarify that’s not me :lol: It is my occupation to help sell those horses, and every. single. day. I have to justify what those horses cost and “how the circuit is” to my pro-card-holding, old-school, hands-on, TB-raised, horsewoman self. I was able to find a niche that helps both pros & amateurs understand the value of their horse on today’s particularly competitive market (and yesterday’s crappy one) for a flat fee & not a commission (because we all know there’s already enough of that out there). I’m a pro, but mentally not cut out to be a(n) (overworked) Pro, so I’m extremely grateful for the luxury horse market that has enabled me to still make a professional living in this industry.
I’m not without my own upside in this game either. I haven’t paid to ride a horse since 1996, most amateurs just cannot pull that off. Half the time it’s not even talent, it’s life & available time. Ergo, I can more affordably make something out of a 30K 4 y.o. prospect than Amy Amateur, and she may very well throw $25K plus into the initial purchase price to compensate, because that is the advantage she has.
Yes McAngie I have data on those questions but as others have pointed it’s not something I’m going to be sharing publicly, though I’m happy to chat markets all day. The data shows a combo of everything stated here, but also influenced by the rider’s ability, time, and near term/long term goals, realities which aren’t getting stressed enough.
10 Likes
Wow, I was surprised to see this thread, which should be an interesting conversation, suddenly become so nasty. For the record, I know no one who has been short or long listed for the Olympics. It clearly is an accomplishment. Moreover, I respect RAyers as a long time contributor who offers interesting and knowledgeable points on a wide range of topics. We more ordinary horse folks (or in my case, horsekid’s mom and board-payer) appreciate the perspectives of more experienced equestrians.
19 Likes
Sigh. I know of a horse who won quite a bit at indoors (he’s not showing how, but I’d call him contemporary) who was sold for $950k. I am not in the business of sharing specifics beyond that. Many posters have answered your question of “can elite hunters be sold for $750k++?” - And the answer is yes. I didn’t think anyone was going to share specifics on who sold for what, but this is a well known thing in hunterland.
Its going to be hard to put a price tag on many of the ones at the top today. First, because many of them may never be for sale, so the price question is pointless. Second, what someone is willing to pay will dictate price. Is Belgravia or whoever a $750k+ horse? Maybe. Maybe not. But if the horse is for sale and someone offers the seller top 6 figures and they take it, it’s not JUST a question of what the horse costs but also what someone is willing to value the horse at, price wise. I’m sorry to not have data to back up your question but I think many would agree that even without knowing for sure, this is a pretty true question!
8 Likes
full and complete confession. I’m doing exactly what prev poster alleged and made a new account to conceal identity. I don’t think it’s a top secret to share price info. I know some about both horses mentioned. what I say I know to be true from first-hand sources.
Gochmans bought Catch Me as a first year horse mid WEF in 2015 from Cookie Beck. He was owned at the time by a lady in Wisconsin. Only campaigned. Never shown as an amateur at the time. I don’t know the price. I do know that Gochmans bought Sambalino for over $1,000,000. I don’t the exact price of Sambalino. Only that it was over $1,000,000. I am confident that the Gochmans will never sell Catch Me. As a prev poster said, not even a blank check will change their mind. Catch Me was very sick, almost died. They nursed him back to be healthy. There is a deep bond there. He’s not going anywhere. I have heard those words directly from Becky. Not for sale. Also, Catch Me is one of the greatest horses of the past decade. Irreplaceable. Like a rare work of art.
Lindsay Maxwell bought Belgravia from Hilary Johnson at the end of last summer. He had a different name at the time. In spring my client had been quoted $400,000 for him before Lindsay bought him. I don’t know what Lindsay actually paid. I do know that a handful of people have asked about him. Don Stewart helps Lindsay and he sold Lyons Creek Bellini to the Ingram family for $750,000 after Hunter Holloway showed it at Harrisburg a few years ago. Belgravia has been beating Lyons Creek Bellini so the reasoning is his price would be more than $750,000. Martha Ingram and Lindsay Maxwell are very good riders and I think it would be a mistake to just assume that anyone wins like they do just because they buy their horses. $1,000,000+ price tag for Belgravia wouldn’t surprise me. The horse just won every class at CC out of 40+ horses and every class at WIHS. Not many horses have done that. Again, not sure that horse is for sale at any price. Again irreplaceable.
These are all real numbers. Not sure it helps anything. The OP is asking about two of the best hunters in the world with two riders who aren’t motivated by profit. My experience has been that when you’re talking about this level of horse, the billionaires pretty much only sell to each other. Fact: The only horse that I’ve known Lindsay to sell is one that she sold to the Ingram family!
That’s all I know. Hope it helps a little.
15 Likes
@HonestPersonFakeAccount It’s tacky to talk about. That’s why no one does it. Didn’t think that needed to be said.
5 Likes
Funnily enough, it was this same week at Washington many years ago that I overheard a top Grand Prix rider giving a sales pitch to some new customers who were interested in buying a horse for him to show. He explained to them that the green horse and the made horse would end up costing the same by the time they actually set foot in the ring for the big classes, once the years of training and mileage on the green horse were included.
He also said the green horse was really a bigger risk, despite the lower initial cost, since you wouldn’t know if it was actually sound enough and talented enough until it broke down or ran out of scope. He said the more expensive horse was a known quantity, since it was already doing the intended job.
That was a long time ago, but I still remember that rundown plain as day. :lol:
7 Likes
Sure, but in the intervening years the ammy on a budget has no horse to ride. For the ammy who can afford board and training, that just becomes a fixed expense. You pay the same board on a 75k horse as a 5k horsd, an apprciating asset as a maxed out one.
For the ammy who views a $100k horse “the same” as a 30k horse with 5 years of training, it’s only the same if she takes a 5 year hiatus. By the same logic, the $100k horse will be $170k in five years.
If this grand prix rider really had to “explain” to the clients who wanted to buy him a presumably six figure horse that a green horse is ‘really’ a bigger risk, they should probably back away from investing in horses, because if you need THAT explained to you like it’s some kind of revelation, you’re in trouble.
Of course the proven horse is worth more. Because it’s proven. No one needs to wonder IF Belgravia can win everything at CC, it’s already happened. THAT’S WHY the proven ones are worth more,and why even the ‘normal’ proven ones (ie, the 3’ adult hunter who will get a piece o/f but don’t even bother with the hack) are beyond most normal people’s budgets.
That said, for OP’s out there who are on the verge of tears apparently that a finished champion that is one of the very best horses out there is way out of their pricerange, it would be good to remember that they’re not necessarily hopelessly priced out of the sport, they just need to be willing to ride something that maybe isn’t one of the top 10 horses going in its division for at least a while.
7 Likes
I find this a fascinating post from someone who is not the OP. Unless you are the OP? One thing long time posters can tell you is topics will veer off into other trails of thought and take side trips into other subjects. It’s like real conversation that way. Since there is no rule that everyone has to stay right on topic, there is no reason for you to take on the job of post police.
Several people have answered that yes, top hunters are in this price range. Why is that not good enough?
12 Likes
Hey there! I am the actual OP and I don’t want any role as post police!!! 
I’m super appreciative and very satisfied with all the great answers and help. I think my question has been answered a few times over from a lot of different perspectives. The big that I learned is a horse is worth what someone is willing to let it go for and someone else is willing to pay! I guess this seems obvious but never imagined that a hunter would ever get into these types of prices. I still am sad when I think about by these prices. It makes me wonder how even an upper middle class rider with a nice income with a real passion who rides well and practices has a fair shot. Where I show entries have been down. I feel it has to do with competitive balance. Just my opinion. It’s also getting more and more expensive to show and many of us have to pick and choose our A shows. When I do go to A shows I like to see the horses I hear about all year. It’s always been a dream to one day own that perfect mount. I’ve admired some of these horse so much and it just broke my heart to hear that they are so out of reach. Geez, a $100,000 horse is out of my range but I guess I was thinking these top horses were maybe five times more expensive than my horse (still unaffordable) and not twenty times more expensive. One is a dream and the other is a fantasy! Does that make sense? Any way, I’m appreciative of all the sharing and even the specific details on the horses I mentioned which I understand may have been inappropriate but now I know.
10 Likes
FWIW: A USHJA board member told me this week that their biggest worry isn’t declining show entries. It is juniors aging out and taking a break for college and not coming back. Twenty years ago the best juniors turned pro. Ten years ago the best juniors rode NCAA or turned pro. Today a lot of top juniors are going to school and taking a break from riding. The board member told me that they’ve always had to work to attract new riders but now they have to work just as hard to retain current riders. It was an interesting point of view.
5 Likes
Popeye K’s price was up in this territory and that was about 16 years ago!! And yes, he is a stallion so there was potential income but again, it was about 16 years ago!!
2 Likes
How many college graduates can afford the money and time for riding at the A level?
I wish USEF would allow these ex-Big Eq/ young adults to teach up down lessons because they would bring an energy and knowledge that is needed with beginner riders.
10 Likes
Lol.
The kids who can afford a big eq career through the generous funding of their parents have absolutely zero interest in teaching up down lessons.
As reported in one “Day in the Life” article, they wake up at 8:30, go to sbux at 9, arrive at the show at 9:45, polish their boots, do a trainer-supervised school, then hand the horse back and sit up in the stands eating a salad and reading a book for homework until it’s time to come down for their class.
And you think they want to be “allowed” to teach up down lessons??!
The reason USEF is losing membership when these kids age out is because riding is fun for the top kids when their parents fund it and the sole purpose of coming to the barn every day is their own competitive success, but they have no desire to become pros or participate in the sport at any lesser or more labor intensive level.
I wish USEF would REQUIRE people who receive USEF funding or beneficial programs towards international competition or young rider drvelopment to teach clinics for the rest of us as a condition of getting the money, but that is not how it works.
And if there are people who want to help fund their horse habit by teaching they are certainly allowed to do so, they just need to turn pro. Teaching and pro rides on the side of my full time deskjob is exactly how I paid for my riding, developed my investment horses, and also conveniently made many of my horse expenses tax deductible.
But, how many former eq kids want to teach a full day of lessons every day of every weekend and have 6 or 7 “lesser” ottbs on the list to ride before and after work and teach middle aged ammys how to be brave all so they can make up one nice investment horse for themselves on the side?
To fund your riding by teaching and training 80%-95% of your horse-related time and energy needs to be spent on other people’s horses and other people’s goals. It’s totally ALLOWED, most people just aren’t interested in continuing with the sport if that’s what they have to do to continue.
7 Likes
