Just because an animal is livestock doesn’t mean laws don’t exist on how someone may go about treating it.
All animals have a right to clean food, water, safe shelter, and vet care. Not just pets.
[QUOTE=Color of Light;8653585]
So why couldn’t LE show up at his door and say the same thing? We’ve had a report of a cow who has been down and in the same spot all week, not able to move. I need to see your cow.[/QUOTE]
LE can say they need to see the cow all they want, but unless they have a warrant the property owner doesn’t actually have to comply. You did, which is fine; many people do. But people don’t have to, and there are plenty who will refuse to allow a search without a warrant on principle.
Thanks wirt for clarifying that double standard of care.
Stewardship and husbandry doesn’t have a double standard. Neither does having and ethical bone in ones body.
Cheapskate gutless wonder should call the vet or put her down.
Disgusting.
If calving paralysis, park tractor by cow, hook a sling around cow and lift using FEL. Leave up (it doesn’t look that nice but it works) and let down to rest every few hours. Simulate the natural % on feet. Hay, water and block off from all other cows except her friend. (Farmers will know which cow(s) are the down cow’s friends.)
We see it around here every calving - and pity the poor grain farmer with his few dairy cows and the very expensive very large tractor holding up a cow when he needs it in the fields :). (We calve for about 3/4s of the year here in NZ.)
[QUOTE=Wirt;8653595]
Calving paralysis. Sometimes they pull through, sometimes they don’t.
Cattlemen will wait it out a few days, or a week or so. Then they will more than likely put her down.
Most cattlemen I know actually care, and have a heart, but they are also businessmen, and experience has taught them to be tough. And cows are pretty tough.
You know, it is really none of your business. It isn’t a pet cow. It’s livestock, and that is personal property. You might think it’s cruel, inhumane. To the owner, it’s just managing death loss. Might be an old cow. Maybe he doesn’t have enough resources to do anything more for her. There isnt really much you can do.
I know you feel for the cow. But she’s not your cow, and you don’t know anything about cattle.
This guys biggest problem is probably his operation is too close to the road, and busy body people with video cameras are always looking for the bad guys.[/QUOTE]
There is a lot of truth in this post.
You lost me with the continued use of “calf yanking”.
Have you offered to assist at all? Do you have a shade cloth to lend? Maybe you missed other offering of water.
Sorry, OP, but you come across as the super creeper, hiding behind the curtains.
What ever happened to doing the neighborly thing and knocking on the door, offering help instead of calling the law?
My dad was an “old time, old fashioned” farmer. Callous and gruff as the day is long. NOT one to go through any unnecessary medical expense for any animal, much less livestock he was raising to slaughter eventually anyway. However…
Years ago I recall him having a cow give birth to what he called a “monster calf”. It didn’t go well. I" ok spare you the gory details but the cow suffered what he called a split pelvis and laid on the ground for weeks healing up.
She got bread, hay and water every day and was flipped every day or more to avoid pressure sores. It’s called animal husbandry. Sounds like OPs neighbor is more into neglect.
By the way dad"s cow survived and resumed a normal live several weeks later.
Most cattlemen will not pay to have the vet out. It is awful how they let cows suffer and die slowly just to save a few dollars. They could shoot her if they are too cheap to have the vet out.
Your choices are to ask if you can pay for a vet to come out (BTDT) or call the local tv station and try to get them to come out and video from your property. Once something gets on TV, the offender will usually do something to either treat the cow or kill it. (BTDT too)
I"ve seen this happen with cows and horses and dogs and cats, as well as with swine and sheep. People just do not care about animals.
Do something please. This is so cruel for owners to let animals suffer. Happens every day.
[QUOTE=Halt Near X;8653611]
LE can say they need to see the cow all they want, but unless they have a warrant the property owner doesn’t actually have to comply. You did, which is fine; many people do. But people don’t have to, and there are plenty who will refuse to allow a search without a warrant on principle.[/QUOTE]
Slightly off topic: LE generally do not need a warrant to go into cow pastures. Google “open fields doctrine” for info.
[QUOTE=invinoveritas;8653671]
Most cattlemen will not pay to have the vet out. It is awful how they let cows suffer and die slowly just to save a few dollars. They could shoot her if they are too cheap to have the vet out.[/QUOTE]
Not all farmers have access to a livestock vet that will make a house call for a downed cow, especially something that might resolve itself. Maybe we’ll have to go back to that thread about college debt. How much do you think a large animal vet makes in rural parts of the country? Not sure I think the farmer should shoot the cow, either, if the situation might resolve itself.
I hope the cow improves; livestock farming isn’t for the faint of heart.
Last two posts had me thinking. There is a good chance there is a vet on the phone who is telling this cattleman what to do in a let nature resolve it approach. Or this has happened in the past and that is what worked.
[QUOTE=Color of Light;8653585]
So why couldn’t LE show up at his door and say the same thing? We’ve had a report of a cow who has been down and in the same spot all week, not able to move. I need to see your cow.[/QUOTE]
They can. You can refuse. You didn’t. Maybe this owner did. I suspect they would need something more to justify forcing themselves onto the property.
Fourth Amendment to the Constitution. No exceptions to check for possible livestock abuse…
[QUOTE=SummerRose;8653675]
Slightly off topic: LE generally do not need a warrant to go into cow pastures. Google “open fields doctrine” for info.[/QUOTE]
No I didn’t research it but if the cow isn’t visible from the road, it may be a bit tougher to go tromping around the property looking.
OP also has no idea what the conversation was between LE and owner. It could easily be that the owner explained what was happening to LE’s satisfaction based on some of the comments above.
I could easily see a case where a nosy non-equine-knowlegable neighbor complained about the skinny horse next door and not being privy (as NN didn’t choose to talk to the horse’s owner) to the discussion that the owner had with LE about the horse being older and much harder to keep weight on but that the horse was getting adequate and suitable feed and veterinary care. Maybe something similar is happening here.
[QUOTE=nccatnip;8653658]
There is a lot of truth in this post.
You lost me with the continued use of “calf yanking”.
Have you offered to assist at all? Do you have a shade cloth to lend? Maybe you missed other offering of water.[/QUOTE]
Or maybe she was offered water and isn’t wanting to drink.
There are a whole lot of unknowns, and the OP is assuming a lot.
And look at the other cattle, the conditions of the ranch. Are they all skinny and sick, no water, no food?
If the op really wants to help, then go knock on the guys door. You will either be greeted with a thank you very much, that’s kind of you, or a get ther f*** off my property. And he would be well within his rights.
[QUOTE=Wirt;8653595]
Calving paralysis. Sometimes they pull through, sometimes they don’t.
Cattlemen will wait it out a few days, or a week or so. Then they will more than likely put her down.
Most cattlemen I know actually care, and have a heart, but they are also businessmen, and experience has taught them to be tough. And cows are pretty tough.
You know, it is really none of your business. It isn’t a pet cow. It’s livestock, and that is personal property. You might think it’s cruel, inhumane. To the owner, it’s just managing death loss. Might be an old cow. Maybe he doesn’t have enough resources to do anything more for her. There isnt really much you can do.
I know you feel for the cow. But she’s not your cow, and you don’t know anything about cattle.
This guys biggest problem is probably his operation is too close to the road, and busy body people with video cameras are always looking for the bad guys.[/QUOTE]
Wait, what?? I “don’t know anything about cattle”? I was raised with cattle (no, not in a barn). I come from generations of cattle farmers. I know all about calving issues, calving paralysis if that is what this is. Thank you, you don’t need to explain cows or actual cattle farmers. This guy is NOT a cattle farmer…actual cattle farmers do not manage their herd like this person does.
Your tone is like I should not give a darn about an animal suffering, in distress for over a week, not receiving adequate food and water. So I’m a “busy body” because I care for the welfare of an animal? A suffering animal is a suffering animal, and that is my concern: unnecessary suffering, which is cruel.
You don’t know him. He is not a “cattleman”. He does not have “an operation”, he lives in a high end area on a hobby farm. He is not a businessman. These are ornamental cows. And oh yes, he has the resources. He is always on some big vacation, I have not ran into him anywhere for years because he is always gone. High end area, well maintained “hobby” farm…not a cattle farmer.
But I “don’t know anything about cattle”, needless animal suffering is “none of my business”, this guy “doesn’t have enough resources to do anything more for her”, and “I am a busy body”. So where does that leave you?? Armchairily clueless and armchairily presumptuous about the guy, me, and the situation. I came here to express and vent my concern about the real situation, the needless suffering, not the fake one, Wirt.
Welcome to “cattle country” care mentality!! We see this all the time in Ok. on the local cattle ranches!!! This is what cattlemen do for economic reasons!! They also do the same with horses in this area. You’ll see dead ones laying in the fields until the coyotes and buzzards clean up the mess!! The “better” ones push the carcasses to the wood line!! The law doesn’t do anything…I’ve called!!
OP, you keep on caring and looking out for those that can’t help themselves. While it is possible that the cow is being offered water while you’re not present, taking action when you see a possible bad situation is the right thing to do.
Are you comfortable approaching your neighbor? I know it’s difficult to do but might give you some information that would allow you to either let it go, offer help or pursue it via alternate channels.
[QUOTE=RodeoFTW;8653609]
Just because an animal is livestock doesn’t mean laws don’t exist on how someone may go about treating it.
All animals have a right to clean food, water, safe shelter, and vet care. Not just pets.[/QUOTE]
And this is what I am talking about, if anyone has interpreted my concern.
[QUOTE=Haybert;8653649]
Thanks wirt for clarifying that double standard of care.
Stewardship and husbandry doesn’t have a double standard. Neither does having and ethical bone in ones body.
Cheapskate gutless wonder should call the vet or put her down.
Disgusting.[/QUOTE]
This!
