Coyote pups in my pasture--questions!

Did you mean “coywolf”?

Coydog is totally distinct from eastern coyotes, and typically denotes a recent F1 or F2 hybridization of coyote and dog.

Eastern coyotes are a distinct subspecies of coyote that mostly occupies the north-eastern range of the US - with significant genetic admixture over the last several hundred years. They are not true “hybrids” – they are a whole different subspecies.

From a genetic standpoint they are typically 50-70% coyote with dog and wolf ancestry, but are not F1 or even F2 hybrids – similar to how WBs of today might be 30% TB but the last purebred TB in their pedigree was ten generations ago. This type of admixture is not rare in canids: wolf subspecies have anywhere from 10-60% coyote admixture depending on subspecies. Their breeding cycles coincide and both species have had significant overlap genetically.

Eastern coyotes are only slightly larger than their western cousins. They average 50-70lb, whereas western coyotes average 25-45lb. They are typically medium-dog sized with larger “rust” areas, a darker dorsal, and a more robust skull than western coyotes. In the NE where I am, they typically travel in mated pairs, occasionally with a cohort (sibling or offspring from last year). They tend to fill the same ecological niche as coyotes, primarily focusing on rodents, roadkill, and small game. They do not pose threats to large livestock but have been known to eat chicken and small livestock like newborn lambs.

If you are seeing 100lb coyotes, they are likely wolves or a very large F1 dog cross – 100lb is rare, even for a wolf. The average is 80lb for North American wolf species.

Coydogs are much more of a threat to humans and/or livestock. They often have little fear of humans or human settlements, and harass and attack livestock rather than hunt opportunistically. There were several of them for years here and they were recognizable by high white legs/socks and curled tail. They were medium sized and barked while they were harassing livestock - another thing coyotes don’t do.

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I apologize, I’m confused as to what portion of my previous post you were referencing when you ask if I meant the coywolf?

At any rate, I’ve long been curious about the subject & the ADD meds haven’t quite kicked in today. So down the rabbit hole I went in the interest of science (uh, procrastination):

Coydogs certainly exist. However, it’s highly unlikely that anyone is seeing wild coydog hybrids with any statistically significant frequency. If at all. Most mainstream scientists seem to believe it unlikely that the Coyote x dog hybridization is viable enough in the long term to have any marked effect on coyote populations. And it is even more unlikely to occur in areas with a significant Coyote population, which sure is the case in my part of VA:

https://vgl.ucdavis.edu/test/coyote-hybrid

Nevertheless, VPR notes that New Englanders commonly (and erroneously) refer to eastern Coyote as coydogs. Their DNA is comprised of about 64% coyote, 13% Grey wolf, 13% eastern wolf, and 10% dog:

Regarding Coyote size, there’s a fairly significant increase in height & weight in populations moving west to East.:

The size difference isn’t slight. Eastern Coyote are about 2x the body mass of their western cousins:

https://www.wildlife.state.nh.us/wildlife/profiles/coyote.html

Were my neighbors seeing wolves & not eastern coyote? Well…The official party line of the Virginia DNR is that Timberwolves were extirpated from VA around 1900, at about the same time as the eastern mountain lion. More than one friend who is a VA game warden will tell you that they have seen a mountain lion with their own eyes. It is just that no one has been able to officially confirm the presence of a mating pair. Red wolves are confirmed in NC, a grey wolf confirmed in ME not too long ago. It’s theoretically possible they saw a wolf. Given that the eastern coyote is about 24"-26" tall at the shoulder, close enough to the 24"- 30" height of a Grey wolf that there are numerous comparison charts published for coyote hunters? Odds are they saw an Eastern Coyote. Although it would be fantastic imo if they were seeing wolves :heart:

I didn’t read Clanters post as saying that? I think it was a word of caution since the " wildlife " has seemed to taken up residence very close to Op’s house/ barn area?

That is very different than just seeing a fleeting glance or hearing them in the distance. It puts your own animals at great risk. Cute young pups grow up and need to eat.

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Maybe region has something to do with it - I am in a very rural area in northern MA, but previously also lived in VT, upstate NY, and SC. I have never heard anyone refer to (eastern) coyotes as “coydogs” – unless it clearly had dog ancestry (white socks, curly tail, etc).

I have never seen a 60lb western coyote in MA. I’m lucky I even have GSDs to scale. I really wonder where these estimates are coming from, and if they are coming from outliers of the population or DNA-tested individuals. Within any population there are extremes, so I don’t doubt that someone somewhere has trapped a 60lb coyote but that is huge and unheard of in this area.

My guess would be if you are routinely running into coyotes of that size, that they may be wolf crosses versus bona-fide Canis latrans.

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Is it possible they’re seeing dogs & not coydogs, though?

I imagine region impacts things. We’re sort of rural but not absolute boonies. Things probably get bigger here in the absence of any natural apex predators to keep then in check… I’ve seen red foxes that are just huge. I low key worry about our barn cats & foxes. Meanwhile, just 15 miles east, my mom is feeding stray cats on her very suburban porch & has a red fox that sits and barks at the stray cats yet won’t challenge them to be first to the food. There’s been a few bear sightings here recently that, holy smokes!! They were so big they looked more like the “Ivan Ivanovich” bears that I used to see at circuses in Russia than any black bear I’ve clapped eyes on :astonished:

Cool video of a black wolf chasing a coyote in Canada:

https://www.earthtouchnews.com/natural-world/animal-behaviour/watch-wolf-in-hot-pursuit-of-a-coyote-sprints-straight-past-fisherman

In my area? Probably not. I’ve seen a few bona-fide F1 or F2 coydogs myself here. I tend to trust the farmers too on what they say – they know the wildlife almost as well as they know their own livestock.

My original post was much longer but I removed most of it because I didn’t want to come across as preachy – and if I sound preachy, it’s because I’ve spent a huge part of my life educating people about wildlife in my area and it’s so frustrating how persistent some of these myths and falsehoods about coyotes are among Joe Public. I have a soft spot for wild canids in general and it seems like a Sisphyean project educating the locals here about what is and is not true about coyotes.

I’ve seen some coydog crosses myself, so they’re not entirely absent here. A few years ago my neighbor trapped and killed a coyote that was clearly high-content dog. He’d been hanging around her lamb pen and I’d caught him a few times rifling through the compost myself and chased him off. He was a stunning gold color, with high white socks and a white blaze on his face. My guess would be the other half was border collie or retriever/collie mix. The winters here put a curb on almost any feral population getting out of hand, but every now and then we do see a coyote that is clearly something else - either by color or by size. Usually it’s by color and the size stays about average. There’s plenty of people here with intact dogs – including the farms – and a coyote isn’t going to attack anything that is medium size or larger. On the contrary – I’ve seen them play with domestic dogs that were their size or larger.

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I think people are grossly overestimating weight when they see them. Coyotes and wolves are tall and lean, they can also have very thick coats.
Most domestic dogs will be heavier than a coyote of comparable height.

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