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Coyotes - How to Get Rid of Them?

Around The Farm
#143

Very true. I always remind people that the canine body plan is one of the most successful predator body plans out there. It’s hard to marry the concept that our cute goldendoodle that wouldn’t harm a fly, comes from the same predator stock that has specialized in bringing down prey six times their size for some thirty million years.

And it’s not just canid species that developed this body plan of quadruped, long nosed, sharp fanged, front facing vision. It has developed independently (convergent evolution) in hundreds of species world-wide. Before dogs in North America, we had predator ungulates called Arctocyons, and they followed much the same body plan if looking from the legs up. Many metatherians did.

It’s very interesting. Maybe a discussion for another thread - but one of the burning questions I’ve always wondered, is when evolution thought it was evolutionary viable for only four toes in digitgrade stance? And when did most things only develop five digits versus six? Why not seven? Was there ever an order of eight toed predators? Eight seems to be a viable number in spiders…

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#144

Entropy wins in all, evolution also, making evolution more haphazard than nicely linear.
Maybe adding digits after so many brings too much to be a rather stable configuration when it comes to enervation in a certain volume constricted by other tissues and needs?

Coyotes are one of the more adaptable of wild canid type species, considering where they are found thriving.

If humans had seven digits, we would have developed different piano playing techniques. :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

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#145

Man, you go straight to art. Meanwhile, I was thinking if it would make eating ramen any easier…

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#146

Just out of curiosity, what is their or your idea of semi- feral beef?

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#147

LOL I’ve been around semi-feral beef, if you’ve been around it you know it when you see it.

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#148

Oh I expect they do round them up in fall. And obviously the ranchers have counted them out and know what section of land they are on.

So we opened a gate and went riding on trails up this mostly forested mountain. There were some clearings especially where there’s been limited logging. And down in the shadows there’s groups of hulking huge beef cows and their big babies, moving away from us like you’d expect to see deer, right into the forest. Keeping away from us, keeping out of sight if they could, wary.

I was kind of exaggerating/joking about them being semi feral, but they were kind of acting like deer (not as light footed, but watchful and wary).

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#149

That appears to be a fox, not a coyote.

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#150

I agree, we used to catch wild cattle.
Scribbler explained what was meant by semi-feral cattle.
I was curious about running GDs with the pairs. Our allotments were too big to run dogs out with them. So I’m guessing on the forest, they turn them out in the spring and gather in the fall. Allotment has enough feed to sustain them in that small of an area to run the dogs.

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#151

Our Aussie, Hank, always goes to the barn with my husband in the morning and then he proceeds to wander around the pastures which is ok. Today my daughter looked out and saw a coyote within 8 feet of him. When she ran to the backdoor to call Hank, he had crossed a bridge to enter another pen and was still smelling the ground. The coyote was still in the original spot by the time I got to the back door. This is pretty much the second time this has happened.
The first time the coyote was laying on the ground and when Hank jumped from the Mule, the coyote stood up and then Hank stopped approaching him. And then today. By the time, I got to the area, the coyote had left. I found yet another path up from the creek that they’ve been using. My sister (Hank’s original owner) always kept him on the porch or in the house when the coyotes were howling, so he knows to stay away from them. On the other hand, he has followed their scent off our property that we can’t easily negotiate as it’s heavily wooded, vines, etc. BTW, Hank is a slightly overweight 70 lbs and the vet wants him around 65 lbs. He’s only been in 2 fights and that’s when a 20-lb. terrier attacked him in 2 separate incidents.

#152

We use Livestock Guardian Dogs. We are outside of town on 17.5 acres abutting 800 acres of water authority property. We do have perimeter fencing but unless it is very tall and buried in the soil, coyotes will go over or under unless deterred. Thus the LGDs. We had been on the property several years before they discovered us, but once they did, came back repeatedly and decimated our barn cat population. They have even ran their mouths at me, at the fence at dusk on a couple of occasions in an aggressive and confrontational manner, where my husband had to use a rifle to convince them to leave. Anyone who says they do not run in family packs is dead wrong. Yes, we’ve seen them solo, but also in family packs.

Have had zero luck trapping any and did try. Nor calling them in and hunting them. Research has shown that predation just amps up their reproduction. So, LGDs. They are a giant breed and start aging out of service around 7, living only to about 12 or 13. All of ours have wound up with creaky hips and arthritis. We tend to keep 3; one young, one mature, one aging. When we lose one, we add another youngster. Great Pyrenees are great but have found that due to matting/pelting of their coat, they require a annual shearing, which is a nasty job and not one I look forward to. We now have two GP/Anatolian crosses and one still needs coat help in the spring. I understand full Anatolians require less coat care but are sharper, particularly about visitors. They are good with other livestock except poultry.

But keeping three on our small property with the amount of coyote traffic in the area, has been the only way to keep the coyotes off the property. While they are great dogs and sweet to people, they are hard on the landscaping and as young dogs, love to dig and will hop fences, so containment can be challenging until they mature at about 3 years of age. They do bark incessantly at night and are nocturnal. We used to adopt them from local shelters when we needed to replace one that is until one adopted male who we neutered, kept confined and watched until we thought he was safe for the other residents at the farm, turned around and fatally mauled a llama we had at the time, while we were at work, so I no longer take the risk of a mature dog whose background is unknown.

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#153

I don’t know exactly when LGD’s were introduced in numbers in the U.S. But I surmise that the increasing number of smaller farms, and people, reaching into undeveloped and less developed areas that still have wildlife is why they have become so popular?

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#154

for us we are in a city, we can not use firearms to discourage coyotes who like to window shop the fence lines looking at the grand kids goats, Animal control is worthless, just asks for photos of the problematic coyotes as they are licking their chops while stalking the goats.

The Great Pyrenees we have takes her job on with vigor. As mentioned grooming one is a task but the dog does tolerate the multiple hours required to keep her fluffy and clean. Really not a lot of dog there but sure is a lot of hair making it appear to be 150 pounds.

The reason we have been told why goats will allow a Great Pyrenees into the herd is the shape of the dog’s face, Being more rounded where as our German Shepherd has a more pointed face of a wolf/coyote. I do not now what a goat thinks but they will allow the GP in with them but will not allow the German Shepherd

We did have a huge German Shepherd that was said to have been 1/4 Wolf. He was around 140 pounds and had eyes that could burn through a person’s soul . Best dog we had for the kids protection he would not allow any unapproved person near them. He was a rescue from a friend who also raised horses. They had a mare foal out and the dog would not allow them tend the mare/foal as he was going to protect his charges. They called me saying that if want “that” dog come get it Now. Drove over there put leash om the dog, asked it to get into the truck, it jumped in then took up the complete front bench seat. Had to push his butt over to get in. Got him “home”, walked him around the inside perimeter of our pasture and back yard telling him this Your home, protect This and that is what he did. We had to register him not with animal control but with the police department as a protection dog . They would check on him ever now and then…and ten years after his death I get another check call by the police wanting to know if we still had That dog, well yes I do , Took them to his grave, there he is.

He was impressive. Once when our kids had some friends over they order pizza to be delivered (the friends live out in rural ranchland and never had a pizza delivered) Our youngest daughter ran to the door to pay for the pizza, dog was right behind her. She opened the front dog with this huge German Shepherd setting directly behind her looking over top of her directly into the eyes of the pizza delivery dude who did a step back upon seeing the pup’s burning eyes, after that the whole community knew we had a beast of dog.

Young daughter would slip a horse halter on the body of this dog making a harness for her wagon, she would drive the dog around the pasture with his tail wagging as he pulled her

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#155

@FatCatFarm I really appreciate your response. We really don’t want to hunt the coyotes and your past efforts have given me some guidance. I have considered trapping and luring them in. Of course, I don’t know what I would do with them then. We typically only see one during the day. At night, we’ve seen multiple sets of eyes right next to the barn and in our other pastures. They’re also sleeping wherever we had tall grass - between fence and stream drop-off (from bank to stream, it’s about a 10’ drop - sometimes straight down and sometimes a 45 degree slope). We use hazing, air horns and those shrill personal alarms. We do go after them until they leave the property.

I’ve always wanted a Pyrenees. We seem to hear about them running away a lot. I don’t know anything about Anatolians. On the other livestock issue, we just have 3 horses and a miniature donkey, all of them senior. How well do these dogs get along with Aussies? Unfortunately, at times, Hank will chase the horses. When he was young and at my sister’s house, he and a young horse would play chicken with each - totally crazy. He’s 4 and still wants to play a lot. Where do you find your LGDs now? Do you give them any special training? We have board fencing along the road which really won’t contain a dog. Unfortunately, people will often speed there and it’s a 35 mph limit. My husband saw one of those signs blinking 52 mph when he was behind her.

@clanter I always like reading your posts. Animal Control asking for photos!!! Were they thinking of doing a lineup (where they put all the coyotes in a line and you have to id one)??? It’s gotten incredibly bad here. The coyotes are walking subdivision streets in the afternoon. What was your dog’s name? I’ve also liked wolves. My daughter asked if I would get a hybrid and I said earlier in life I would have. Keep the goats safe!

So in general, do LGDs need some sort of training? Do you get them at a certain age? Keep them in the house or barn until a certain age? Are 3 horses and a miniature enough to keep the dog fulfilled? I’m willing to get one, just not sure how to train it properly.

Thanks everyone! This has been great advice.

#156

well here some of their on line reporting process

Large Predator Sighting Report, Please report any coyote or large predator sightings
Upload Any Relevant Pictures

Are 3 horses and a miniature enough to keep the dog fulfilled?

we do not allow the dogs to be in the horses pastures since more than likely one of the horses would harm them

The Great Pyrenees was not needed be trained it BARKS at anything that moves in its territory which includes the sidewalks out front, any one or thing walking on them is greeted with BARKING except for the trash collectors who she has accepted as being there on good purpose

The German Shepherd we have now used to play the young coyotes through the fence who evidently thought she was one of them

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#157

I haven’t owned a GP, but experienced two on the other side of the property fence at the barn I was at for a few years. They were protecting a herd of sheep and did their job well.

As far as the GP’s were concerned, sitting facing the fence and barking was a big part of their job as long as people and activity were on the other side of the fence. Even though the people were minding their own business, doing horse stuff.

Actually it makes sense, from the GP aspect of things. I can imagine that the constant barking does keep at least some predators from even investigating. Without a dangerous confrontation. Without a need to move away from the sheep to shoo away an approaching predator. Moves the predators on to look for targets that don’t have a GP guarding them.

The barking had different effects on dogs temporarily there accompanying their horse-people owners. Some ignored it. Some wanted to go up to the GPs, and some seemed a bit owner-protective triggered.

But yeah, it is a constant background noise. Those two GP’s were diligent about their sheep. The sheep seemed to be in love with them.

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#158

We find ours on Craigslist in the Farm and Garden Section for our area but the last one came off of a local Facebook Group. All three are females - 1 pure Great Pyrenees; 2 GP/Anatolian crosses. Ages 6, 3 and 2. The oldest we got off of Craigslist as a 2 year old who had been raised with goats and chickens. Her owners were moving off the farm and she needed placement. Basically the same for the next oldest - family was expecting their first child; downsizing livestock and didn’t want to keep two LGDs. For our third and youngest, she was circulated in a local Facebook group as a giveway/free. She was being kept as a pet and the owner’s other dog was picking on her. Since she was free, we took the chance to see if she would guard and she did. We got her fixed and she’s been an excellent guardian. Matter of fact, the first and best Great Pyrenees we had was 7 or 8 years old when we got him and had been nothing but a house dog. HUGE male. Sweet as pie; hated birds of any stripe but was a great guardian.

We have had better luck with females than males. The females seem to guard harder and are less lazy and less stubborn. We get all of ours fixed so there is little jockeying for position and all three get along well with each other and seem to like each other. I am outside with them more than anyone and I tolerate no squabbling. Just like with my horses, I am Alpha. The dogs seem to understand this and since the Alpha is established, the matter is closed and they do their jobs.

Mine are not confined to pens and have the run of the property. We did find that they really want a pack and when we tried to keep just the one LGD, they often left to go find friends and/or playmates. I think a lot of the ones you hear about roaming around are a) not fixed be it single or in pairs; or b) solo dogs. A friend of mine has two females and no perimeter fencing, and they stay put. Even when ours have gotten out of the fence, they never go far and know where home is. They do not get out and take off. In fact, my three go trail riding with me on the property next to ours and stick close and follow along great.

We have gotten ours as puppies and raised them alongside more mature dogs but I much prefer finding an adolescent with some exposure to farm life and raise that youngster alongside one of our established guardians to be shown the ropes and to gain confidence from. All of our dogs have been very good around our small dogs, cats and various other livestock. All young dogs must be observed and supervised initially in order to learn what is acceptable and what is not. They are smart sensitive dogs who will take judicious and fair correction but can be stubborn so consistency is required as I have had to reiterate the same lesson several times to a youngster before they will finally capitulate and cease whatever objectionable behavior. It was like they kept asking the same or similar question to see if they got a different answer, so you have to be firm but fair as in: No, being food agressive is never allowed. No, chasing the outside or barn cats is never allowed. No, harassing the young horses is never allowed. No, taking the rubber tubs and chewing them up is never allowed. No, picking on the small dogs is never allowed. And a lot of positive reinforcement.

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#159

We’ve had three over the years and have one currently. Two females and one male; I prefer the females too, they seem to be softer to people and assess situations better. The first one was patrolling a 1500 acre sheep/cattle ranch and she did a great job with it. Second one was a mix of GP/Akbash and he was a LOT of dog, a little more than we needed most of the time and really wanted to expand his territory but he was just what we needed when a neighbor’s young dog was pushing our horses through a barbed wire fence. There wasn’t a clear shot with the horses in the mix and so I released the hound, so to speak. He freight trained that dog and then chomped down on his hind leg and held him there ‘until the cops came’ as a good friend said. The dog we have now is getting older and sometimes I say we won’t get another one but I can hardly imagine not having one really. She is so sweet and kind to everything but she’s always on point when we need her such as when a neighbor dog was pushing at our goats’ fence or when random critters show up pestering the chickens, like skunks. lol I think if we ever don’t have a GP we would start having a lot more problems with predators that we kind of take for granted to not have now. We’ve usually had woven wire yard fences that gate into woven wired horse pastures and so the GP always has that territory. The ranch GP had the run of the place but she knew her property line and never left it. Occasionally we’ve had to keep one in a smaller pen or yard and ours did ok with it.

We never had to train one to “guard”… the night barking is hard wired right out of the box lol I treat mine like any other dog, they are in/out of the house all their lives (ours is sleeping on the couch at home right now) and I train them basic commands, knowing full well if they get something up their nose or see an issue they will ignore all my input. They are willing dogs but independent thinkers, as they have to be with their jobs. Walking their property line with them as many times a day, every day, that you can stand it for the first year of their lives helps them learn what is theirs and what isn’t but if they can roam they will. We leave ours out at night where she has a heated dog bed in the winter.

We don’t go crazy grooming ours though she would love it if we did, she adores the attention. IME the mats don’t go to the skin and actually provide a bit of protection if they actually get in a scrape. I trim her up a bit on her skirts in the spring and brush her occasionally but I don’t find them a lot of grooming to keep up on.

I got our current one from a good friend that raises them from her own working dogs. I see a whooooole lot of GP’s and variations that end up in pounds or give aways that just don’t ring as true to me as the GP’s we’ve known for the last 20 years. I’m around the breed a lot and it seems like some of the owners and breeders these days are really … not knowing what they are doing.

It’s been an honor to know all the GP’s that I’ve had in my life so far. A good GP in a good fence is a fabulous dog.

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#160

well maybe need an attack cat

Family cat saves dog from coyotes

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#161

That is a cute story! lol

But what a cautionary tale as to how fast coyotes can strike. And how deadly – that little dog was a snack to them. They ignored the larger dogs who probably didn’t know how to react. In the middle of the backyard!

Everyone living with any proximity to coyotes needs to see that video.

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#162

When I worked at a dairy farm, my boss had a few stories of “that big orange cat” (several over the years actually) chasing coyotes off the farm. Cats that are territorial don’t mess about. Most cats are not quite that territorial though.

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