Not used to using crates. When I got may greyhound, I felt I did not want her crated again — but I do have dog gates to keep them out of specific rooms - they stay on the hard surfaces with beds. It works for us.
I grew up in a dog show home and crates were simply a part of that. This was way back in the 60’s and 70’s and 80’s. And I think as more and more training opportunities opened up for the “average pet owner”, those pet owners became exposed to what trainers and exhibitors had been doing for decades.
I know it is hard to imagine now, where every big box store offers training classes, but up until relatively recently training was not something the casual pet owner had much access to. So they were not being exposed to the tools and techniques being used in the “dog world” like they are today.
Anyway! That is my theory.
Sheilah
[QUOTE=IdahoRider;7603028]
I grew up in a dog show home and crates were simply a part of that. This was way back in the 60’s and 70’s and 80’s. And I think as more and more training opportunities opened up for the “average pet owner”, those pet owners became exposed to what trainers and exhibitors had been doing for decades.
I know it is hard to imagine now, where every big box store offers training classes, but up until relatively recently training was not something the casual pet owner had much access to. So they were not being exposed to the tools and techniques being used in the “dog world” like they are today.
Anyway! That is my theory.
Sheilah[/QUOTE]
I think that is probably a big part of it. We were the average rural area pet owner. Got a puppy from a local farm (probably an oops litter), brought it home with a collar and a bag of Old Roy or Alpo from the grocery store. That’s it. There were no pet stores in my town, just the local hardware store, that did have a pet aisle. Now with lots of big pet stores, and the internet…just about everyone can get just about anything without a lot of effort.
[QUOTE=Laurierace;7602429]
I have used a crate to housebreak every dog I ever had so at least 40 years in my case.[/QUOTE]
Me too, everyone in our dog club did and does, is safer for the dogs when you are not right there with them.
Now, not at home other than at night, other than maybe a puppy for short times of rest and to train it to chill out.
During the day they are in a dog proofed area, they still don’t get the run of the house to do whatever they want.
Some of that may not be what we want.
The internet has been a huge contributor to people’s knowledge. I remember a time when the only resources we had were the local stores and what they had in stock or catalogs.
Any device can be abused and misused. I like the crate because it allows me to choose my battles at a time that I can be the most effective teacher. Not much to be done about it once the dog has learned it can chew up everything in sight.
I crate my dog while I am not home. I did it at my last apartment because it was not my furniture and didn’t want any destruction of furniture. Now, I own all the furniture, but he still goes in his crate when I am not home to give me peace of mind that my cats are safe. I don’t think he would actually hurt the cats, but when I am not home, I don’t want to worry about it. My dog doesn’t mind his crate. It’s far bigger than he needs so he has plenty of room to stretch out and relax and chew on his toys etc. When I am home, he is out of it. He’s allowed on the couch and he sleep on my bed at night.
I clearly recall reading dog training books and watching videos rented from the library in the early 80’s. We weren’t dog people, we were just regular people. My grandparents came over on the boat in the 40s and since then that I am aware of our family history, they had housedogs that were housetrained. No crates or tree tying or neighborhood wandering. I, of course, thought my parents/grandparents were idiots and so sought out the “modern” way of doing things and therefore read books/watched videos when it came time for me to train my own dog, but the techniques were all pretty much the same, and the dogs were all errorless-ly housetrained just fine. It’s not rocket science and I don’t think a cage is a requirement for dog training.
The only time I have had difficulty with a dog being destructive is when they are left alone and can’t see outside. Dogs like to see what is going on in the world and in my experience they don’t deal well with sensory deprivation, especially visual.
I think some dogs learn to like crates because they have no choice. They’re stuck in there so it’s the brain’s way of coping with it. Others go insane. I sincerely doubt many dogs would chose to stay locked in a cage in their owner’s absence if given a choice. To say “he likes it” is also a coping mechanism for the owner. I likewise doubt that if anyone here suspected their dog was unhappy staying in a cage that they would continue to do it.
That said, I sincerely doubt that a dog would eat kibble if given a choice between that and steak and yet I do feed kibble not steak. But as with all things with our animals, we seek to strike a balance between their unbridled happiness and their wellbeing. I work 5-6 days/50-60hrs/week so that would be significant time in a cage for my dogs. To me that amount of cage time is bad and would significantly reduce their quality of life so I employ other management techniques. I have happy dogs who have wonderful house manners who have never been crated, so something must be working.
I’m with you, Sswor. It’s fine a crate is used in the training process, it’s good for potty training, but I just don’t get putting an animal in it every single day or night. Why would you get a dog if you don’t have a yard?
It’s like people say horses “like” being in 12 by 12 stalls 23 hours a day. It’s what they’re used to.
I have a BAD Beagle who is now 15. Completely untrustworthy and will get into everything. I have a yard and another companion dog to keep him company. I would never just leave him in a crate. I can’t imagine getting any dog where you have to have them locked up for many hours a day.
I think a lot of it is laziness. People get dogs they want, but can’t deal with, and instead of finding the right environment for them, they cage it. I find that video you showed, threedgopack, appalling. What a complete ass. He gets a “high drive” dog, and then says how great he is by having a “play yard” of 3 foot square with toys in it. Why isn’t that puppy in the yard running around like a puppy should?
I don’t crate my dogs, but it’s a good idea to teach them to be crated in case you need to use one for travel, vet or recovery from vet treatment.
I’d much rather see a dog crated than tied up, and would rather see them crated rather than eat something that can kill them, if they are the chewing/eat anything they can get type.
[QUOTE=Beentheredonethat;7603131]
I’m with you, Sswor. It’s fine a crate is used in the training process, it’s good for potty training, but I just don’t get putting an animal in it every single day or night. Why would you get a dog if you don’t have a yard?[/QUOTE]
I agree that having a fenced yard makes having dogs easier. However, I don’t think that it is necessary. I’ve known many people who lived in apartments or townhomes that spent a lot of time walking their dogs and doing things with them, and I don’t think their dogs suffered. Most dogs will not self-exercise in a fenced yard.
I absolutely think that crates can easily be abused. People love puppies because they are cute, but caring for a puppy is a very hands-on job. They usually don’t sleep quietly while you do other things. They require you to be watching them for accidents and chewing and all of those things, and it becomes easier for people to put them in a crate.
I am from the Midwest, and I do think region affects this. When I was growing up, inside dogs were little dogs, preferably low energy. Hunting dogs were kept in kennels. Big dogs ran free or were tied out. Dogs that started out as inside dogs but were too energetic “needed more room to run” and moved to the country (with or without an owner).
Even today, in rural areas and the inner city, there are dogs that are kept isolated outside. There is a program that gives people crates so that they can bring their dog in when it is extremely cold or hot. Many of these dogs are tied out.
Years ago, people were outside more. Many had outside dogs, which is different if the owners are outside a lot. Many more homes had someone at home during the day. Dogs ran free in neighborhoods. Dogs that didn’t fit into peoples’ idea of what a good dog were discarded.
It is difficult. I think that through all recent times, there are people who love cute puppies and the idea of having a dog, but don’t want to put a whole lot of effort into the process. It is also a very different proposition to leave a young pug alone in the house than some of the working breeds, which historically were not house dogs. However, even then many spent a lot of time outdoors in isolation, contained on tie outs or in kennels.
I do crate train my own dogs, but personally I would feel bad about them being in a crate for hours upon hours. I have had to proof rooms for a dog that had a tendency to eat fabric before. The vet told me that I would never train it out of that dog. After the habit landed her in the veterinary hospital for several days and nearly required major abdominal surgery, I proofed a room for her. Fortunately age has reduced, but not eliminated, the problem. I’ve also had puppies chew through electrical cords. There are many foods that are poisonous to dogs, as well as household chemicals, etc. There are times when it can be unsafe to allow dogs full access without supervision. I do think that care has to be taken to ensure that the dog isn’t living a totally unenriched life inside of a crate.
Overall, though, I think that many dogs’ lives are better now than they were before. I do think that people need to be educated about over-crating, though, as well as providing enough fresh air and exercise.
[QUOTE=Beentheredonethat;7603131]
I think a lot of it is laziness. People get dogs they want, but can’t deal with, and instead of finding the right environment for them, they cage it. I find that video you showed, threedgopack, appalling. What a complete ass. He gets a “high drive” dog, and then says how great he is by having a “play yard” of 3 foot square with toys in it. Why isn’t that puppy in the yard running around like a puppy should?[/QUOTE]
I disagree. I wouldn’t leave my high drive puppy outside unsupervised either. We used a puppy corral inside and out unless the puppy was being directly (and I mean directly) supervised, because our little guy could fit into spaces that we hadn’t realized (under the deck, under fence gates, into the horse paddock) not to mention into the garden, under the gas grill, eating flowers, digging in the mulch. So we never just tossed the puppy outside to run around all day.
So, after you’ve had fun playing (inside or outside)…then what? What if you have to cook dinner? What if you have company? That’s what the x-pen is for, not instead of running through the house. Then you get this:
http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u63/SandyLM_bucket/IMG_1450_zpsd7023d90.jpg
(See, and his crate right there already at 8 weeks). 
Aw, I miss our living room puppy corral. Eventually he figured out how to jump out, and then all hell broke loose. Little monster.
[QUOTE=jetsmom;7603161]
I don’t crate my dogs, but it’s a good idea to teach them to be crated in case you need to use one for travel, vet or recovery from vet treatment.
I’d much rather see a dog crated than tied up, and would rather see them crated rather than eat something that can kill them, if they are the chewing/eat anything they can get type.[/QUOTE]
Or rather crated than dumped in animal control shelter when the owners can’t handle their issues, issues that confinement and training, which in some situations means crating, could solve.
Crating is a tool only, can be used sensibly and yes, can be abused also.
Some we do or fail to do honestly falls into the “can’t fix stupid”, misusing crating one of those things, sad for the dogs that happens.
[QUOTE=Beentheredonethat;7603131]
I find that video you showed, threedgopack, appalling. What a complete ass. He gets a “high drive” dog, and then says how great he is by having a “play yard” of 3 foot square with toys in it. Why isn’t that puppy in the yard running around like a puppy should?[/QUOTE]
you really think running around the yard is going to calm that puppy down?
Every time I have had a puppy it stays attached to me by a 6’ leash at all times until it is a reliable family member. If I have to leave the house, it stays confined with the Other* dog on a easy-clean surface area with dog door access to 6’ privacy fenced and perimeter dig-proof bricked yard at all times. My yard is dog friendly-- no landscaping that could be ruined, just lawn and patio, and a ramp off the porch for the elderly member (who has passed, but there will be more). The gates are locked and the adjoining yards are double fenced chain link with a 12" buffer space between them.
But then I bought a house based in large part on having a dog-friendly yard and then took every effort to make the yard safe and secure so I could be confident in their safe access to it in my absence. Inside, I chose flooring and furniture based my on having dogs. I do all this instead of training my dogs to accept being caged. I guess it’s just a different way of looking at things. Crating a dog allows to mold a dog to the environment, rather then having to alter the environment too much for the dog.
*as an aside, I say “Other” dog because I will not keep a single dog. Dogs really need a canine companion if they are to accept being left alone for several hours on a regular basis. Someone to play with, someone to hang out with, shoot, even someone to bicker with, it makes for better behaved, happier dogs in my experience.
[QUOTE=Sswor;7603199]
Every time I have had a puppy it stays attached to me by a 6’ leash at all times until it is a reliable family member. [/QUOTE]
That must be very convenient when showering, cooking, eating dinner, vacuuming, entertaining guests…for 6 months…or longer, depending on the dog.
:rolleyes:
There is more than one acceptable and appropriate way to raise a puppy. Xpens, puppy corrals and crates are all acceptable tools to use. All can be abused, as can a 6’ leash and a dog safe yard/kennel.
[QUOTE=Sswor;7603199]
Every time I have had a puppy it stays attached to me by a 6’ leash at all times until it is a reliable family member. If I have to leave the house, it stays confined with the Other* dog on a easy-clean surface area with dog door access to 6’ privacy fenced and perimeter dig-proof bricked yard at all times. My yard is dog friendly-- no landscaping that could be ruined, just lawn and patio, and a ramp off the porch for the elderly member (who has passed, but there will be more). The gates are locked and the adjoining yards are double fenced chain link with a 12" buffer space between them.
But then I bought a house based in large part on having a dog-friendly yard and then took every effort to make the yard safe and secure so I could be confident in their safe access to it in my absence. Inside, I chose flooring and furniture based my on having dogs. I do all this instead of training my dogs to accept being caged. I guess it’s just a different way of looking at things. Crating a dog allows to mold a dog to the environment, rather then having to alter the environment too much for the dog.
*as an aside, I say “Other” dog because I will not keep a single dog. Dogs really need a canine companion if they are to accept being left alone for several hours on a regular basis. Someone to play with, someone to hang out with, shoot, even someone to bicker with, it makes for better behaved, happier dogs in my experience.[/QUOTE]
I only have one dog at the time, because that is all I can handle with my dog allegies, should not even have one, really.
You know, you are wrong that one dog alone is not well adjusted and happy and some even prefer it.
My dogs have been fine alone and when company comes, fine playing with them, ready for them to leave also and when they do, they tend to pass out for a day or two.
They also have trained consistently for many years in obedience and agility and herding and just gone to dog classes because I was helping the club there, to be along and many times be demonstration dog.
Living as only dog is not necessarily bad for a dog.
There are many dogs living alone and doing fine, really.
I first saw crates in 1979 when I went down to visit my in laws for the very first time. They were dog breeders and the house had pretty much gone to the dogs, lol. Three crates in the living room and one of the things my then fiancé did was to build a couple of dog gates so his step mom could rest after surgery (yes, she’d just gotten out of surgery. Strange visit to say the least.)
When we bought a house the storage room door was scratched to pieces probably from the dog being shut in there while everyone was at work. Dogs need people and time, when I was a kid there was always an adult at home and then the dogs would run around with us kids after school. We chose not to shut another dog in that storage room. Got a cat instead.
ReSomething, I do absolutely think that more than space, dogs need time. If a dog has the opportunity to be with its people a lot, the dog will generally be happy. When I see dogs that need room to run, I think that they likely really need a person with the time and inclination to exercise with the dog and train the dog and just do things with the dog.
ETA: That isn’t to say that I think that people who work should not have dogs, however, I do think it is difficult for people who work really long hours. I also think it is difficult for people who go a lot of places after work and are very busy on weekends.
[QUOTE=S1969;7603211]
That must be very convenient when showering, cooking, eating dinner, vacuuming, entertaining guests…for 6 months…or longer, depending on the dog.
:rolleyes:
There is more than one acceptable and appropriate way to raise a puppy. Xpens, puppy corrals and crates are all acceptable tools to use. All can be abused, as can a 6’ leash and a dog safe yard/kennel.[/QUOTE]
It doesn’t take 6 months with that method. Of course when you’re showering you just shut the bathroom door and drop the leash. But otherwise, no it’s not necessarily convenient but very little about raising a puppy is convenient. Convenient puppy raising is probably an oxymoron.
