I’ve been stuck in a waiting room, so I ended up on this bit of the forum (I wish this was in Off Topic!) A fascinating discussion!
I’d like to put out there one thought. It seems to me that horses and horsepeople are stuck between: are horses a lifestyle? Or are horses a sport? And that has ramifications all the way down the line. And then, if lifestyle? What sort of lifestyle?
A bit of background, I always hated competition (3-day eventing and dressage) and now I am connected to the odd last reminder of the world where horses worked: draft animal power for agriculture and logging. Horses are a Lifestyle, all caps, for that, but it certainly is not the Plaid Horse (I had to go look that up!). You won’t get rich farming or logging with a horse, but it is unbelievably satisfying to truly work with the animal. You are both bone tired, and somehow the horse knows that you are working too…
I never want to see horses treated as pets, mostly because of the legal ramifications. But, I do wish as an industry, we were more accepting of people simply working with horses, not necessarily showing them.
A good riding school will take excellent care of their most valuable resource: the horses. It is perfectly possible to work a horse for two hours a day, indeed for three [gasp!!] so long as the work type is balanced out (better riders will tune up horses that have been used by lesser riders) and work periods are balanced with rest days. Too many recreational horses are seriously underworked and it leads to behavioural and soundness issues. A hour a day is nothing to an animal that evolved to be moving for hours out of each 24.
Let me be the first do double-down on shaming someone who thinks they can treat a horse like a rental car. If they don’t think the animal’s well-being matters then they should go elsewhere. Because here’s the thing: No one who doesn’t feel compelled to care about the animal isn’t going to be worth keeping in the industry anyway. I don’t care if they pay an expert to do care for their animal. But they should care that there is a standard of care. Where would they learn that if we don’t hold them to a high ethical standard?
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As usual, your brush is broad and your horse is high.
How can you possibly justify the statement that people who employ professional grooms to care for their horses should go elsewhere? Do these people not care about their horses? Based on what evidence? Should we all quit riding and collapse the industry because we pay someone to do the hands on stuff? Do the reasons even matter to you? There are women in their 70’s still riding at my barn. The groom helps them on and off the horse. Maybe they can’t take a temperature or treat a thrushy hoof. Maybe riders have a busy career, or a bad back, or kids at home. They aren’t worth “keeping in the industry”?
Oh, I completely agree! It’s the management less than the hours that’s the issue. Unfortunately, not all schools do this in practice or have a good mix of less and more experienced riders.
I feel your pain. I moved a lot when I was in my 20’s for work. The biggest PITA was finding a barn.
I recall sending a letter to the state Saddlebred association saying I was looking for a horse & new to the state, could they point me toward any barns or trainers. CRICKETS. Never heard a word from them. I grew up on the edge of the Saddlebred business, I wasn’t completely clueless about horses, but the geography was another thing. It was ridiculous how hard it was.
I’ve joked or threatened, not sure which, to get my current barn one or more of those big, bright, sail flags with the barn name on it to place along the road. Despite going to the place for 12 years, I still have to look hard for the driveway. Might happen at the new place.
My mother worked at a small local restaurant that advertised in the VAL-PAK coupon mailers. It’s fairly inexpensive and it brought people in. Why barns don’t use things like that, I’ll never know.
Thank you. I’m completely baffled by the notion that a horse can’t handle more than one lesson a day.
I’ve been around working horses. My grandfather drove a milk wagon on the streets. I’ve got an Amish pony who can do 5 miles on the road with no problem. A 30 minute lesson to that pony is barely a warm-up.
@mvp I agree. Do you think maybe the fallacy of the well rounded “I need millions of activities to get me to a good college” mindset is really the result of the college prep industry and the extremely overpaid private college admission counselors helicopter parents hire?
Some of the laziest undergrads I ever mentored in the lab with were those who were “well-rounded.” When I got fed up and was trying to finish my PhD and wanted a summer intern I could trust, do you know who I chose and was not disappointed? The 16yo high school junior at the barn who had her Pony Club B riding certificate & was working on her H-A & A levels.
Haha good for you @mvp, I assume that “Harvard of the West” is USC or Stanford. 
Can I double like all your comments on this topic?
Well @Ponyplusaninch this is thought provoking and insulting to us “crazy horse girls and grownup horse girls”… but I think you hit the nail on the head. I applied to college in the late 1990s right when Title 9 was becoming a thing, before the rise of the NCAA Equestrian Teams. I assumed Title 9 helped. But maybe not. Upon further thought, there is a perception that hunter/jumpers are all pampered, spoiled trophy wives or the daughters of such. Watch the movie The Wolf of Wall Street and the part where one of the levels of success in to live on Long Island and buy a pony for the daughter. Hmm. Got to ruminate on this one.
@Impractical_Horsewoman triggered is the right word. Are these mostly men that are triggered or are nonhorsey women who make hiring decisions too? When I was trying to get back into the dating world after the end of a 7 year relationship, I went on a first date with a guy who seemed fun and at first was interested in the horses and actually seemed to be knowledgeable. But after a couple of beers, turned out he had a HUGE chip on his shoulder over his ex girlfriend who was an “equestrian in the tight pants and boots” (so English) and spent more time with her horse than him… Needless to say I did not return his calls for a second date. This was in my late 20s. Maybe men like that then go on in their careers and then have juvenile male inadequacy feelings about women riding 1200 lb animals??! Hmm. 
Circling back to the OP… and thank you again for this interesting topic…
Well then @arelle that is frustrating! I know a reining trainer in Southern California. If you are ever out here and want an introduction, PM me.
I don’t think (forgive me if I’m misspeaking for someone) anyone is arguing that for a serviceably sound and sane horse or pony that a beginner lesson at 3pm with a walk-trotter, and a two foot jumping w/t/c lesson with a more experienced rider at 5pm on the same day is abusive. And a good lesson barn will give horses days off, and hopefully also have a day where the horse can be flatted by a decent rider so he/she carries himself better (or even more ideally hacks out) and can do some more interesting things. Plus have decent vet care, tack that fits, and so forth for those lessons, and an arena (and paddocks) with acceptable footing, clean (enough) stalls to wait in between lessons if necessary.
It’s just not all barns do that stuff, even if they say they do. And I can understand why–few barns can afford to have a deep enough pool of school horses.
Re: the well-rounded thing. I worked for a private admissions counselor for 20+ years and can offer some insight. The “well-rounded” kid who could play an instrument, play one or at most two sports, was editor of the school paper, is of my era (and no, I didn’t have a private admissions counselor myself)! Today, a more typical applicant might be the kid who goes to a specialized high school magnet school for science, shadows a doctor during winter break, plays an instrument and maybe one sport, tutors kids with special needs in math and science, does fundraisers for a hospital. So yeah, kids are doing a lot, perhaps not necessarily more busy, but there is a focus more on showing the college that there is a passion/sense of direction. College has gotten much more expensive, and admissions much more competitive, and someone just going to a top school as a “well-rounded” kid with truly no focus or direction is a hard sell. Of course, kids change and evolve in college, but colleges like to know that even if the goal shifts, the kid is capable of setting goals.
Long-winded and a bit of a tangent. However, I will add that although I worked with kids who rode horses, I don’t think someone who doesn’t live the life fully understands the work involved. I agree gender bias is at play. If something is seen as done mainly by women–whether it’s riding, getting good English grades, dance, or so forth–it’s seen as easier and less worth doing. 
OMG, my anxiety just shot through the roof. My daughter will be entering high school next year. She goes to public school, is a “B” student, and lives for children’s theater (performance, set design, lighting, helping the littles, you name it). She is the sweetest, dearest, most loving child you ever met, but on paper, she’s nothing like the “typical applicant” you described. But I won’t push her to be different or more, because I think she’s awesome and enough. Still, I’m sad that colleges are now demanding applicants who are basically Nobel Prize candidates. So much pressure on these kids.
I teach at an R1 school (there is a new system for rating, but I always forget what it is, so this is a big research uni, basically), and some of my students have CVs that make me feel like a huge loser. 
They do an incredible amount of things! I think on the one hand this generation is more socially-tuned in and empathetic, at least I find this to be the case in my students. They are admittedly cherry-picked because of where the school is and what type we attract, but they are committed to public service in a way that I find inspiring and hopeful. I think being pushed to be well-rounded is a good thing if that is what it helps to produce; on the other hand, I think it’s too much pressure.
I came to college not knowing anything about the world and had a terrible time adjusting; there was little to no support like there is now, and I struggled immensely before I figured out what I wanted to do and be. I was a lifelong horse girl whose last show hunter had been sold when I went off to school and I was lost without that structure in my life. Had there been more of a support system for me I could have weathered it better, and in retrospect what I learned as a rider and barn rat helped shape who I became. These students often come in having traveled and volunteered and served in various capacities but they are still teenagers! They still don’t know anything relative to what they will need to survive in the world.
I’m just sort of blathering now, but my point (I think) is that I’m not sure where the balance is, and perhaps kids who want to focus on something and do it really well shouldn’t be penalized for the resulting lack of breadth in their activities. Instead, they should be measured in terms of what skills they have and how well they have been able to use them in their chosen passion.
I looovveee children’s theater and I think that theater, along with riding, is one of the few activities that really foster independence in kids.
I agree, it’s crazy, and TBH, the reason for the existence of that type of resume is often due to heavy management from the parents. Not that the kids aren’t smart and they DO do the work, but it requires such a micromanaged schedule.
It’s absolutely amazing. First off, the woman who runs the theater is God’s gift to…well…everyone. She teaches them lessons that apply far beyond the world of theater. And creates a safe space for my eccentric kid to be exactly who she is.
Secondly, you’re right! It’s really teaching my daughter how to be a responsible adult. She helps a ton with the littles. Not just teaching lines and choreography, either. Sometimes they poop their pants or vomit and she, as the intern, has to deal with it, call the parents, console the kid, and get back to work. She still loves it! Go figure.
I’m sure she’ll do incredibly well adjusting to high school. And some kids, including myself, actually do better in high school, given the work is more interesting and creative.
By the time she applies to college, given how the world is changing, who knows what the world will be like! Very different, I have no doubt, than how it is now.
Lol did you date my ex? He used to get legitimately jealous of my horse, to the point he suggested I sell him. And at first he was super encouraging of my riding and competing … but then I’d actually go out of town to an event and he would worry that I was going to “hook up with someone.”
He’s gone, but I still have the horse 
There are plenty of colleges for B students, and wonderful ones at that. The issue I see, based on the experience of my family members and being in higher ed, is that so many students want to go to the same colleges. Princeton had over 37k applicants last year, with about a 6% acceptance rate. If you are from New Jersey, however, you can apply to Rutgers, a fantastic R1 university, with an acceptance rate of 67%. If you live in Virginia, you can go to Mary Washington College, with a lovely campus and great faculty, with an acceptance rate of 75%. There is no reason to be fatalistic in this regard, just expand the pool of posibilites!
This is all so frustrating to me. I did the barn rat thing as a kid, was a working student at some solid HJ barns during my college years, and umpteen years later am a VP / in house counsel at a very large publicly traded company.
So much of what I learned doing the horses translated well to my non-horse career.
-I learned that sometimes you just have to show up and get it done regardless of whether it’s supposed to be your day off or someone else was supposed to do it.
-I learned how to deal with a wide variety of personalities of all income levels and egos.
-I learned aspects of project management from managing a barn while the head trainer was gone or from planning out a day at a horse show while grooming.
-I learned how to bargain from watching horse sales and leases being advertised and negotiated.
-I learned how to manage conflict from the times I stepped in to manage the ingate at a local show.
I’ve since shifted to those apparently more respected endurance sports - believe me, they have much less carryover to the business world than the equestrian stuff does.
Blockquote I wonder how many lifelong riders here have gotten some lucky breaks from kind people who saw someone with desire and gave them an opportunity, even a small or temporary one.
Figuring out how to quote…I was one of these lucky people! I started lessons around 7 years old and owned two horses before I went off to college. I was lucky enough to continue lessons all through college as there was an equestrian program there and was even luckier to meet a woman who I have now been friends going on 20 years. She reached out to the college looking for someone who could help her exercise her horses at home; I responded and was a good fit for what she was looking for. I rode with her regularly until I bought Charlie in 2020. Not only did she give me the opportunity to ride, she herself is an incredibly knowledgable and talented rider as are her mother and sister, so I had many learning opportunities and someone to ask questions to. She also had great horses to work with. Over the years there were 4 that were my main rides.
Had I not met her, I may have lost my momentum without being able to afford regular lessons right out of the graduation from college gate, let alone purchase my own horse as an adult…that didn’t happen until I was 37. Never getting out of riding shape (physically and mentally) was huge for me and my confidence going back into horse ownership. It also gave me a great outlet to decompress and relieve stress as well. I had my toe in the water socially as I didn’t really have a big horse community after college and that was something that I didn’t realize was missing until I got back into ownership.
I totally agree! And as a runner, I do admit, it’s a much more selfish sport (and much easier to control all of the variables that affect performance).
Let’s not forget how horses teach you how to persevere in the face of setbacks. Lots and lots and lots of setbacks. I feel like horses have instilled me with a supernatural tenacity!
Now, the flip side is that I’m pretty prepared for disappointment at all times, but hey, you take the good with the bad…
