None of my horses came with butterfly’s! But on all my horses, boy I wish I had some forelocks! I have pathetic forelocks on all my finely bred animals.(Hehe) I did not get anything but horses with tiny bits of duck fluff! What I would give to have that big luxurious forelock! So Equibrit, is Gypsy just a type then? NetG, I guess it is individual what works for each person and we are happy when we make that connection whether it is a cross or whatever!
[QUOTE=jdeboer01;7655713]
No offense, but…HUH? Friesian trots are NOT easy to sit! They are one of the most difficult trots to sit.[/QUOTE]
I’ll count my blessings then. Ruais’ trot is quite nice and I have a horrid back.
She is only half Friesian though, perhaps it is the Arab side or a mix thereof?
I should have specified “purebred Friesians”, and even then, I concur that not ALL of them have that stiff, up-and-down sewing needle type action as well. I also think that “bornfreenowexpensive’s” experience with difficulty getting them to lift and work correctly over the back is quite common with the breed. Outcrossing them with supple, elastic horses can help.
This video isn’t the greatest, but I do think this colt’s sire, Sir Sinclair, certainly added elasticity to his movement. His dam, a purebred Friesian, doesn’t have that “sewing needle” action either.
[QUOTE=jdeboer01;7656870]
This video isn’t the greatest, but I do think this colt’s sire, Sir Sinclair, certainly added elasticity to his movement. His dam, a purebred Friesian, doesn’t have that “sewing needle” action either.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bTAAz9hg3tc[/QUOTE]
I think this video is a great example of the difference between a “fad breeding” and a well-thought out breeding with a plan and end goals. Lovely colt! What a super cross! :yes:
I think you are all not considering that these horses are not bred for you and the horses that you might breed are not for the people who want these crosses. There are a number of things that do show up in these crosses. Temperament, easy to handle and start, gaits that a rideable from someone who doesn’t ride more than a few times a week, and riding a few times a week their horses should not get hot, and they are easy to keep. I am sure too that they are hair lovers, black lovers, baroque lovers, maybe spot lovers, and people should get what they want. A pure bred Friesian is NOT something better than a half bred. Frequently the halfbred is a better horse for these people. I would love to have the Friesians used in these crosses to be good Friesians, or QHs or Morgans or SBs etc. As many of these breeds have many issues…though these issues are often better with an outcross. And if you replace Friesian with Gypsy Cob the same goes for that as well. In Great Britain and Ireland there are a lot of crosses on the Gypsy and actually they are better movers for sport than the Friesians and their temperaments are even better as they are not as belligerent and their temperament is actually what people THINK the Friesians temperament is. They are sounder…and still cute and hairy and black. Many traditional American options have issues with movement that don’t make them the first choice for sport horse sports. If you make sure you get a sound cross they are fine for sport. And yes I have Irish Draughts and breed Irish Draught sport horses(ID crosses)and the farm breeds and sells Friesian crosses. Believe me these are not warmblood customers gone astray. I call them purple sparkly people. Many are good riders and horse people distracted by a pretty face and some bling they are buying what they want…and if they put the training time in you may have to beat them at the shows. PatO
[QUOTE=Daventry;7657094]
I think this video is a great example of the difference between a “fad breeding” and a well-thought out breeding with a plan and end goals. Lovely colt! What a super cross! :yes:[/QUOTE]
BLUSH
Why, thank you Daventry!
YES – to say I put thought into my breeding choices is an understatement. Unfortunately, I think the vast majority of “Hairy Horse” crossbreeders don’t even have a truly cohesive, well thought out breeding goal. Friesians are much more than “pretty, hairy horses”. They have much to offer with their ammie, willing temperaments (and the fact that they’re beautiful is a massive bonus). But if someone is looking for beauty, temperament AND sport talent, breeding these horses to anything other than proven sport lines is VERY unfortunate. If I’m looking for “purple”, I’m not going to mix blue and yellow. Know what I mean? 
[QUOTE=Equibrit;7656493]
There is no such breed as a “Gypsy”. They are mutts. Why would any serious breeder cross a mutt with anything else ? Other than of course to get another mutt. Sorry forgot the butterflies and hair !
(The existence of a registry does not confer breed status).[/QUOTE]
I was at the MN Horse Expo a few yrs ago & there was a table in front of the Gypsy Vanner stalls…it had a brochure or something with a very long explanation of how it WAS all about the hair…that there was no point in breeding anything without excessive “feather” b/c even an otherwise decent horse w/out feather was not worth anything, and only fantastic lines & fantastic confirmation came with feathering (which I find hard to believe). You can hide anything under that mop. Can you french braid leg hair?
I remember going home & ranting about it.
I do admit to thinking some of them are pretty, in the princess pony sense, although the excessive hair gets to be kind of gross looking at some pt.
[QUOTE=jdeboer01;7657313]
BLUSH
Why, thank you Daventry!
YES – to say I put thought into my breeding choices is an understatement. Unfortunately, I think the vast majority of “Hairy Horse” crossbreeders don’t even have a truly cohesive, well thought out breeding goal. Friesians are much more than “pretty, hairy horses”. They have much to offer with their ammie, willing temperaments (and the fact that they’re beautiful is a massive bonus). But if someone is looking for beauty, temperament AND sport talent, breeding these horses to anything other than proven sport lines is VERY unfortunate. If I’m looking for “purple”, I’m not going to mix blue and yellow. Know what I mean? ;)[/QUOTE]
Can I give you 100 thumbs up?
[QUOTE=Hippolyta;7657464]
Can I give you 100 thumbs up?[/QUOTE]
Thanks, Hippolyta!
I think the best examples of controlled, well-thought-out breeding choices are done with the major European Warmblood stallion testings and approvals. To me, it’s a no-brainer to use proven stallions and good mare lines – even if one can’t register the offspring with those very registries! The best, proven stallions crossed onto the best, proven mares from the best lineages is a tried and true system! What a horses given “breed” is shouldn’t matter, IMHO. In my own case, I’m hoping to produce horses that LOOK “Baroque”, yet have hybrid vigor and proven talent in their pedigrees. 
[QUOTE=Hippolyta;7657464]
Can I give you 100 thumbs up?[/QUOTE]
Thanks, Hippolyta!
I think the best examples of controlled, well-thought-out breeding choices are done with the major European Warmblood stallion testings and approvals. To me, it’s a no-brainer to use proven stallions and good mare lines – even if one can’t register the offspring with those very registries! The best, proven stallions crossed onto the best, proven mares from the best lineages is a tried and true system! What a horses given “breed” is shouldn’t matter, IMHO. In my own case, I’m hoping to produce horses that LOOK “Baroque”, yet have hybrid vigor and proven talent in their pedigrees.
[QUOTE=jdeboer01;7656870]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bTAAz9hg3tc[/QUOTE]
That’s not your typical Friesian cross either. You and Donatella have posted horses anyone would recognize for their quality.
I breed and train Friesian Sporthorses, including my FSA stallion Lexington who I raised from a foal and is now competing (and winning) at Grand Prix and will be 11 years old this month.
The breeding does make all the difference – but when they’re well bred these can be very nice horses, and absolutely comparable to Warmbloods in my opinion. 
Interesting to read about the cross breeding thoughts/opinions, even as a non-breeder. A few days ago I saw this video (horse is for sale or lease) on Facebook and thought that the mare appears to be a successful outcome of someone’s plan to make a nice driving horse. She is Friesian/Saddlebred. http://vimeo.com/90384194
Does the purebred Friesian assocation still kick out people/horses for cross breeding?
[QUOTE=Anne;7667058]
Does the purebred Friesian assocation still kick out people/horses for cross breeding?[/QUOTE]
No. And they never actually did. That was a scare tactic.
Out here in cowboy land…it seems every spotted horse with hairy legs is a Gypsy cross and anything solid colored with hairy legs is a Friesian cross. I have a friend who bred a Friesian to an Arab and has a hairy mane/legged 14 hand pony. She bred a paint to a Friesian and got a filly, who at 2.5 years is 16.3 and she just sold a 1/2 Reg. Friesian Sport Horse who was out of a POA!! That one was 15.2, a “Butt Ugly” brown tweed (The registry called her black with roaning…NOT), hammer headed, and moved like a post driver, but she sold for a good price due to !/2 Friesian papers. When we were breeding top quality TB/Clyde or Shire crosses we prayed they wouldn’t be hairy!! My 29 year old hunt horse never needed a shave!! It just seems to be in fashion right now. Whatever makes buyers happy puts money in the breeder’s pocket. Most of us breeders need all the help they can get…fad or otherwise!!
[QUOTE=crosscreeksh;7668353]
Out here in cowboy land…it seems every spotted horse with hairy legs is a Gypsy cross and anything solid colored with hairy legs is a Friesian cross. I have a friend who bred a Friesian to an Arab and has a hairy mane/legged 14 hand pony. She bred a paint to a Friesian and got a filly, who at 2.5 years is 16.3 and she just sold a 1/2 Reg. Friesian Sport Horse who was out of a POA!! That one was 15.2, a “Butt Ugly” brown tweed (The registry called her black with roaning…NOT), hammer headed, and moved like a post driver, but she sold for a good price due to !/2 Friesian papers. When we were breeding top quality TB/Clyde or Shire crosses we prayed they wouldn’t be hairy!! My 29 year old hunt horse never needed a shave!! It just seems to be in fashion right now. Whatever makes buyers happy puts money in the breeder’s pocket. Most of us breeders need all the help they can get…fad or otherwise!![/QUOTE]
At this point, “Friesian x uterus” is NOT a wise marketing strategy (And it never should have been.) I’d also like to pose the question to these breeders – What, exactly, is your breeding goal? And where do you see your breeding program in 5, 10, and 15 years from now?
[QUOTE=RiverOaksFarm;7666354]
I breed and train Friesian Sporthorses, including my FSA stallion Lexington who I raised from a foal and is now competing (and winning) at Grand Prix and will be 11 years old this month.
The breeding does make all the difference – but when they’re well bred these can be very nice horses, and absolutely comparable to Warmbloods in my opinion. :)[/QUOTE]
Those are lovely horses and the obvious result of well thought out breeding. More examples that are not the typical Friesian cross.
I disagree with the part I bolded. How can you justify breeding more low end horses just to make a quick buck? It sounds selfish and greedy to me. Breeding should be about more than just the bottom line, and that doesn’t only apply to backyard Friesian cross breeders but to ALL backyard breeders.
Sometimes I hate people… But I’ll spare everyone a rant. :mad:
“Friesian x uterus” is what I see the most of. Breeding programs driven by greed and ignorance.
Quote Originally Posted by crosscreeksh View Post
Out here in cowboy land…it seems every spotted horse with hairy legs is a Gypsy cross and anything solid colored with hairy legs is a Friesian cross. I have a friend who bred a Friesian to an Arab and has a hairy mane/legged 14 hand pony. She bred a paint to a Friesian and got a filly, who at 2.5 years is 16.3 and she just sold a 1/2 Reg. Friesian Sport Horse who was out of a POA!! That one was 15.2, a “Butt Ugly” brown tweed (The registry called her black with roaning…NOT), hammer headed, and moved like a post driver, but she sold for a good price due to !/2 Friesian papers. <snip> It just seems to be in fashion right now. Whatever makes buyers happy puts money in the breeder’s pocket. Most of us breeders need all the help they can get…fad or otherwise!
I disagree with the part I bolded. How can you justify breeding more low end horses just to make a quick buck? It sounds selfish and greedy to me. Breeding should be about more than just the bottom line, and that doesn’t only apply to backyard Friesian cross breeders but to ALL backyard breeders.
Sometimes I hate people… But I’ll spare everyone a rant
My last statement was meant to be a bit “tongue in cheek”!!! I don’t believe in breeding “cutsie/furry/feathered” horses who don’t have much purpose in the real horse world, but it IS a free country and if people can pay their bills breeding “designer dogs and now horses” I guess it is their own business. IMO…this is what keeps the killer market booming. Sorry for the misunderstanding!
Gypsy Crosses
I see a lot of sarcasm in regards to Gypsy and Friesian crosses. Not a big Friesian fan - I have seen some I really like and some that I don’t much care for but other people have adored. As far as the Gypsy crosses go - I love the Gypsies - Love their disposition, heavy bone, stockiness, hair, and love the fact that they are easy keepers, if by crossing a quality Gypsy with quality mares regardless of breed and get the traits you want, then why bash people for a “cross”? I know probably many people don’t realize it but most breeds did start out with crossbreeding to get the type desired. Quarter Horses don’t even trace back 100 years - their bloodlines include Arabian, Andalusian, TB, Morgan… Morgans were developed in the US as a result of crossbreeding. TBs trace back to Arabians, Paint horses are a fairly new breed with strong QH and TB heritage. Warmbloods are the breeding of a cold blood (drafts) and a hot blood (Arab, TB). Anyway I could go on and on. You all have to admit the Gypsy people did a pretty darn good job at culling bad dispositions! Gypsy Horses are known for their excellent temperments. As a breeder my goal is disposition above all, its the hardest to breed for and what the majority of breeders don’t have as their priority. Next I want a horse with good bone and good feet, without those you have no horse. Next I want a horse with versatility - I may need to work cows one day, go on a quiet trail ride, pack salt to the cows, try my hand at Western Dressage or give a lesson. I Love my Gypsy crosses and have sold prospects for dressage, hunting, trail, extreme cowboy race, mounted shooting, Extreme trail, Bridle horses etc. I think everyone I have sold a horse to is thrilled with the disposition of what we are raising. We work hard to give our babies a great foundation, they are handled from birth, pasture raised, and started using natural horsemanship methods. I have never had one person say my crosses are ugly. I have had some top names in the horse industry comment on the looks and what good movers they are. When people come to buy I hear over and over what are hard decision it is because they are all so nice. I’m not trying to brag, don’t take it the wrong way, but I am defending the crosses - Gypsy crosses, Friesian crosses, Andalusian crosses. Many people can’t afford a purebred or want to bring a bit more to the table. I just saw a stunning bay Friesian X QH stallion that puts both purebred Friesians and purebred QHs to shame! And he’s very athletic! Anyway that is my 2 cents - I’m done.
