I’ll second you on this one. The Isabell’s definitely not for me. (FWIW, I find the Bates version slightly more comfortable than the Wintec version for whatever reason, but only just.)
Give me my Passier any day.
The ones I like are: Devoucoux, Forestier, Antares, Delgrange, Butet…Lets say most of French brands saddles?!?lol And Theo Sommer and for sure Hennig!
Dislike: Stubben, some old Passier, Kieffer, my old Jeffries was a slidding night mare…
But just make sure the saddle is properly fitted and on level, 'cause that can make a whole lot of a difference ('specially in the crotch area!)
I agree with trying as mny saddles as possible. Beg and borrow saddles to try noting the make, model, year, and size. When you know what you like and don’t like, then go shopping.
Christa
Who LOVES her old Stubben and other flatter saddles. I hate saddles with deep seats and/or big knees rolls.
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This is so variable. The balance of the saddle on the horse is such a critical component. As my seat improves, I find that I can ride in a smaller seat size, even in deep seated saddles, because my knees are down.
I have found that, even when you try one you love, and buy another one of the same brand/model/size, it may not fit the same. Very frustrating.
Custom Saddlery. I get all sorts of “wow! what saddle is this?” comments from people coming to try sales horses and from students.
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Ever change the knee blocks on Passier?
So I happened out of good fortune to get a Passier Antares for very little $. Its a 17.5" MW and fits like a dream on one of my horses. LOFF the fit for her, really can’t get better than that.
For me, however, meh. When I first sat on it I greatly disliked it. I decided to give it another chance and rode in it again- and ok, I can be convinced to ride in it.
What I think would make this saddle better is to support my wayward legs and add bigger knee blocks or velcro so i can change them out (i have a couple sets of these).
Has anyone done this to a Passier? I’m going to take it to our ancient saddler later today to see if he can do it. But before I do that I thought i’d ask the COTH public if they’ve ever done this before.
Thanks!!
My personal crotch (and seatbone) punishers:
Bates Isabelle
Amerigo Vega
Schleese JES
I find comfort in a County, Kieffer and Niedersüss.
Wide or Narrow Twist?
Configurations of saddle seats vary wildly but when you’re not able to sit on a saddle it helps to know whether the saddle will be at least close to your conformation needs … after, of course, your horse’s. Knowing whether you need a narrow or wide twist helps.
The way the twist affects you depends on the conformation of your pelvic floor; whether your pelvic floor is arched or not. The way to determine whether you need a wide or narrow twist is this: Sit on a flat seated chair, legs spread and posture as though astride. Now, as if you were checking the clearance of the pommel on the horse’s wither, see if and how many fingers you can slide between your crotch and the chair.
If you can slide some fingers in there, you are a candidate for a narrow twist. If you can’t slide your fingers in at all, you are a candidate for a wide twist. The way the saddle is built for a narrow twist is that the rise will support the pelvic arch. If your pelvic floor is more flat and you don’t need that support … OWWWW.
You are in comfort trouble if you need a wide twist but your saddle is narrow because you feel as though you are astride a 2x4. If you need a narrow twist but your saddle has a wide one, you will feel like your legs are being pulled out of their sockets. Neither condition lends itself to effortless riding.
You can’t necessarily depend on a saddle maker to produce all wide or all narrow twist saddles. E.g., one of my favorites is an Albion Original Comfort model (currently no longer made). It’s perfect for my wide twist preference. However, for me an Albion SLK is like sitting on a nicely padded 2x4. My trainer loves her SLK and hates my OC. I love my OC and hate the SLK.
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Horsefaerie and Spyder – thanks to both of you for the tips on saddle fitting for the rider! This is sooo helpful. And now I know I’m a wide twist/openseat person.
For those who say, “you must be sitting badly”, here’s an internet slap for ya!
WHACK!
Sometimes its a poor posture. Sometimes it’s stirrups that need to be adjusted. But most of the time I think it’s a saddle that just doesn’t fit the rider’s conformation. Exactly like not all saddles fit all horses well.
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Also need to mention that the position of the stirrup bars must fit your skeleton and how it hangs down the saddle.
No tips for how to figure that out!
Too far forward and you will have no stability. Too far back and you will be pitched forward.
They can be moved on some saddles.
Usually a saddle fitter won’t see this but a good instructor should.
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Have you tried Passier saddles? Libertyville Saddle shop still has a good selection of 16 & 16.5’s available.
(note that Passiers are considered to fit smaller than “others” just as Prestige is considered to fit more generously).
Have you had a saddle fitter out to assess your horse or done wither tracings & photos for an online consult? I thnk your new guy (congratulations!!! :yes:) is an Arab or Arab cross & that can limit your choices in off the rack saddles.
My 10-year-old Passier is not a crotch punisher at all. I recently replaced it with a Lemke because I was having hip problems and wanted to try one of the more modern cushy saddles that are out there. I bought a Lemke because a trainer I respect recommended it as the most comfortable saddle for her and the horse she had ever ridden in.
Sheryl Lemke came out to fit me and my horse. The first saddle I tried was an 18" (my Passier is 17.5), and I immediately felt “punished.” Every saddle she chose for me after that was one with a low cantle, and I bought the fifth one I tried.
The point is that it’s not the brand of saddle, but how it fits you, and fits on your horse.
[QUOTE=TheHorseProblem;5135028]
The point is that it’s not the brand of saddle, but how it fits you, and fits on your horse.[/QUOTE]
Yes and no. Sometimes one saddle brand/maker decides to stick with one basic design for the saddle–attempting to grab a larger share of that one market. I’ve sat in all the Albion saddles and since I love a narrow twist and little or no thigh rolls and need a slightly long and more forward flap for my long thighs, I can’t stand any of that brands saddles. So, sometimes you can generalize by brand, but other times you can’t.
CWD all the way for me - for both jumping and dressage 
I HATE my Stubben Tristan.
Thanks for all the info. Looking for a saddle is a chore when there are so few to try out locally.
My guy is a big Arab (15.3 hands) and for an Arab his back isn’t that short. It IS, however, “curvy” and he has prominent withers. I did try a medium tree County (Competitor, I think – shop owner did not know) on him and it was too narrow. Bad iPhone confo shot here:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/soloriver/5058887478/
The marks are from where I tried to do wither tracings but I think I did them wrong. I am a little confused since different saddle fitters seem to want you to take different tracings, which would really just figure wouldn’t it?
I wish I had a size 17"+ ass because most of the nice used saddles I am finding online are a 17 or 17.5 (seems to be the size 7 shoe of saddles) but I really think I like a 16 or 16.5 better. I am really small and have very narrow hips (32-33" or thereabouts). I really don’t want to end up spending hundreds of dollars shipping saddles and sending them back.
http://www.thorowgood.com/T6-High-Wither-Dressage.html
Looks like the high wither Thorowgood might be a good fit for his build, but the smallest seat size looks to be 17".
Crotch punisher–for me, the Albion. I suck it up and ride in the Albion anyway because it positions me the best of any saddle (except for maybe the Hennig) AND my horse LOVES it. I tried at least 20 saddles on her and the Albion won by a large margin. My princess loves it–I’ve learned to cope (and wear padded undies).
Melanie, certain Kieffers will fit him (but not all) Aachen maybe.
There is a COurbette that should fit too. I’ll need to rack my brain for the model though.
I would think you’d need a cut back.
A County in a 4 tree might work but you will need to probably widen the gullet. Measure your boy’s spine width.
I think you are going to have to steer clear of the pointed panels.
Maybe someone else can jump in and tell you what they see.
Wow, Spyder, thanks for the idea on how to check shape of the pelvic floor! I always thought i preferred a wide twist, but everyone kept telling me that i was wrong. I DO need wide twist! No wonder i hate my trainer’s saddle!
Saddles i find comfy:
Albion
Passier Optimum
Schleese HK
Torture Saddles
Bates Isabelle OUCCCH
Stubbens
I sat in a Schleese HK at WEG and Whoa. I loffed it. but its REALLY pricey. Eek. fortunately my boy is just 16 mos so we’re a while before saddle purchase.
How does everyone feel about raising a youngster - adjustable saddle, like the Schleese, or plan to go through one or two saddles with growth???
I really like the idea of having a saddle that can adjust with my horse’s growth but am wondering if this is too good to be true???
IMO, they’re too good to be true. What I’ve heard is the gullet adjusts, but the back of the tree does not.
Maybe someone who owns one of these adjustable saddles can confirm or deny this? Perhaps the technology has improved? Manufacturers keep producing adjustable trees, so there must be a demand.
