Dealing with a hyperalert horse

[matryoshka]

Summernyt, it is okay to find another home for a horse if you are not enjoying her. You are seeing a mismatch and have concerns. That’s smart. I’m speaking from experience, because I gave up on my OTTB this year after putting three years of training into him. He was a bucker, and I gave up on him when it turned nasty. I love the horse, but I need to stay whole. He is now in a home where he can do jumping and other things that may keep him more contented than he was out on the trail.

So if you are looking for permission to give up on the horse, give it to yourself. It’s okay. Riding should be enjoyable, and though some people manage, it is hard to ride from wheelchair.

If you wan’t to explore some more options before making your decision, then check out a few books on bombproofing and try the advice here (lots of experienced trail riders have chimed in). It boils down to what you want from your horse and what she is able to give you. I’ve had decent success getting unlikely horses (OTTB’s) doing well on the trail. But not every horse enjoys it–and when I find this out, I look for a home that provides work the horse may find more to taste. It also frees you to find a horse that suits your temperament better.

p.s. If your horse is anywhere near agile as Merlin, then God bless you!! That horse is incredible. One thing about OTTB’s: they may be powerful and fast when running in a straight line, but I could always feel a spook or a buck long before it arrived.

[Summernyt]

Whoa that ![](erlin video gave me chills

Having said that, my Andalusian is 1/2 Lusitano and can move in a very similar way…there is just a lightness of being in the breed. I agree with the poster who said I can’t change her personality (that’s true with men also, I find…); I just either have to work with it or find a home with someone who can. It’s got to be a good personality match with this type of horse. Interestingly, I had her and the QH down at a western barn for a month with a guy with a real cowboy mentality (the one with the Texas longhorns)…he worked great with the pissy QH to help turn her attitude around but his techniques absolutely terrified the Andalusian…his methods just did not work with her because her fear kicked in and her brain completely checked out. He was totally frustrated (I brought them both home, BTW.)

I should say in 8 years I’ve only come off this horse (or any other horse, actually) twice: once I forgot to tighten the girth :o and so we spun around a few times with me off on one side for awhile and the second time a few months ago when we saw “Sitting Bull”…

Here’s a pic of her in one of her more animated moments:

[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v737/SilverNite9/May2007111.jpg)

under saddle (that’s me):

[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v737/SilverNite9/PicasaHorsePhotos420072008.jpg)

one of my favorite despooking items (you never know when you’ll meet one of these on the trail):

[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v737/SilverNite9/IMG00106.jpg)

and with a scarey monster horse (she was absolutely shaking but went up and sniffed it which I appreciated):

[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v737/SilverNite9/IMG00077.jpg)

Thanks for all the helpful advice…it would be easier if she wasn’t such a doll in so many ways…

[Shadow14]

[QUOTE=Kyzteke;3656909]
Luistanio (sp?). National horse of Portugaul, I believe. Amazing athlete, isn’t he?[/QUOTE]

Thanks Merlin is incredable but this guy I feel is also fantastic.
Look at where he hands are, one holding a pole, the other holding his hat. The reins are tied to his waste. This horse is really handy and I assume agian a Luistanio???
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qhuip8kyBTU&feature=related

[Summernyt]

You are exactly right

[QUOTE=Mersy;3655407]

I now have a Arab that is very alert and sensitive. I do a lot of singing when I ride her and try to ignore those “scarey” things when we walk by them by focusing ahead. In most cases she gets by without to much problem.
That said, there have been some cases were I have just dismounted when I could see the horse was not going to be able to control itself. Such as when one day we came across some cows. At first she wasn’t to concerned but when they started to migrate to the fenceline to check us out she lost it. In this situation I retreated to a location where she would hold her feet still and I dismounted. I then progressed along the fenceline leading her in hand. She was still scared, but I was out of danger or at least could step out of its way. When we got passed the cows a certain distance she settled and I remounted. My plan now is to go back to where the cows are and practice a little approach and retreat to work on desensitizing her.

With sensitive horses always be aware of your surroundings, determine what might be a issue before hand and decide how to work through it in a safe manner. Stay relaxed. If you don’t feel confident enough when coming upon a situation, dismount for safeties sake then proceed after you pass the danger zone.[/QUOTE]

My screw-up when I came off with “Sitting Bull” was that I knew the horse was scared seeing the bull lying under the tree buuuuuuuuuut I had just had a session on the QH chasing cows and I thought “I can push her through this!” And I probably could have ridden her through it, except I should have considered I had NO room to maneuver on a narrow trail, being beween a barbed wire fence on one side, and thick bushes and trees on the other with the bull in front of us. Total dumb idea looking back…I actually considered getting off and walking, but thought I could handle it.

So…we started forward, then, like the cows in your story, Sitting Bull got up to check us out, and all bets (including me) were off as we went spinning off into the trees…

Well, the end of the story was with my breeches shredded and after pulling out the branch in my rear end, I walked her by the bull as scared as she was because I needed to locate my husband who was way ahead on his mountain bike. Of course when I finally caught up with him and limped home while he slowly pedaled, no signs of the bull were to be found…I still wonder if he believes any of it…

[Shadow14]

If it truely was a bull could you not get in more trouble leading a horse past him??? I know your horse dumped you, a sure fire dangerous thing but getting off and leading a horse past a bull can’t be a good thing either??

[pines4equines]

Hay

What I might suggest is a grab strap. I’ve added it and when I see something potentially scarey, I hold that and the reins. I can then actually loosen the reins when we see something scarey rather than tighten up which can be a tendency. I noticed that some super sensitive horses might react to being held tightly and might spook more.

Also, look up Auventura’s thread on “We have ulcers.” My super steady guy became a spook monster when he had an ulcer. Could be something to research just to rule out…

[pines4equines]

Hay 2

PS: Also wanted to mention to cut yourself some slack…I don’t think any one of us would have had Mr. Calm coming up on a bull under a tree unexpectedly. I think all would have looked and done some sort of mild to major freak over that one…(Unless you’re used to cows.)

[jnel]

Me Too!

I too have a hypersensitive horse, bought him about 5 months ago. He is a quarter horse draft cross with an Arab personality. Two different vets told me to consider selling him and find something quieter. They said this because his rolls his eye, his head comes up and body tenses when faced with something new. In his hyper alert state he looks just like your guy. A couple of things have really helped calm my horse.

1. Consistant environment: Quiet handling, good turn out with no more than four other horses, cut back on the grain. It took a month of riding in the ring for him to relax enough to drop his head and reach for the bit. Ride the same trails. Once we had ridden the same trail over and over again I was finally able to ride with him on the buckle. I rode with a buddy and had to “leap frog” with him until he finally has gotten happy wherever you put him in the line. I also know that with every new situation he will be hyper alert until he becomes used to it. So I don’t stress about it. If he spooks or is fearful of something we stop and wait until he will go by it. Now in new situations I just get a lead from another horse and after a few times following then I’ll have him go first through the scary part.
2. Saddle fit. His new saddle is on order and we were making do with a saddle that sort of fit. When I changed pads he noticeably relaxed his back and became much happier.
3. Magnesium. This is a calming supplement recommended by my vet. There are several products out there just look up “calming” on any of the sites that sell horse supplements. Some products have Tryptophan in them and I understand this is not good for long-term use. My horse has been on Ex-Stress and I haven’t really noticed a big difference, but he does seem to give me the eye roll less.
4. Desensitizing. When I got him I couldn’t walk up to my horse carrying a towel without him rolling his eye, head going up and him shooting back about four steps. Every day we worked with towels, tarps and blankets rubbing on his body, gently waving them around, putting them on his back now he is better.

I bought my horse knowing he was fearful and very green, I thought it was because of the way the dealers were treating him. It was to a certain extent but he will always be hyper alert/fearful that is just the way he is. I have really enjoyed seeing this horse slowly becoming calmer and less stressed. As to the vets that said to sell him, my answer was whom would you sell this horse to? He needs a rider that is patient and is savvy enough to work with the issues. That kind of rider is really hard to find. I would worry about selling my horse because I could see that he might get in the hands of someone who is intimidated by him. If not handled correctly I can easily see this horse turning into one of those problem horses that gets passed from owner to owner getting treated worse and worse until ending up at auction. It doesn’t sound as if you are ready to sell yet and I would try the Magnesium and see if it works for you.

[Summernyt]

Sorry, the bull was on the other side of the barbed wire fence, so no risk

[QUOTE=Shadow14;3657545]
If it truely was a bull could you not get in more trouble leading a horse past him??? I know your horse dumped you, a sure fire dangerous thing but getting off and leading a horse past a bull can’t be a good thing either??[/QUOTE]

And honestly, she did not dump me; I realized I had to bail or get my head cut off by tree branches. She does not have a mean bone in her body. Once she was able to get far enough away from the bull…literally 10 feet, she stopped and waited for me. It was totally my fault for overfacing her.

[Summernyt]

Saddle fit and what I’m trying

[QUOTE=jnel;3657638]
I too have a hypersensitive horse, bought him about 5 months ago. He is a quarter horse draft cross with an Arab personality. Two different vets told me to consider selling him and find something quieter. They said this because his rolls his eye, his head comes up and body tenses when faced with something new. In his hyper alert state he looks just like your guy. A couple of things have really helped calm my horse.

1. Consistant environment: Quiet handling, good turn out with no more than four other horses, cut back on the grain. It took a month of riding in the ring for him to relax enough to drop his head and reach for the bit. Ride the same trails. Once we had ridden the same trail over and over again I was finally able to ride with him on the buckle. I rode with a buddy and had to “leap frog” with him until he finally has gotten happy wherever you put him in the line. I also know that with every new situation he will be hyper alert until he becomes used to it. So I don’t stress about it. If he spooks or is fearful of something we stop and wait until he will go by it. Now in new situations I just get a lead from another horse and after a few times following then I’ll have him go first through the scary part.
2. Saddle fit. His new saddle is on order and we were making do with a saddle that sort of fit. When I changed pads he noticeably relaxed his back and became much happier.
3. Magnesium. This is a calming supplement recommended by my vet. There are several products out there just look up “calming” on any of the sites that sell horse supplements. Some products have Tryptophan in them and I understand this is not good for long-term use. My horse has been on Ex-Stress and I haven’t really noticed a big difference, but he does seem to give me the eye roll less.
4. Desensitizing. When I got him I couldn’t walk up to my horse carrying a towel without him rolling his eye, head going up and him shooting back about four steps. Every day we worked with towels, tarps and blankets rubbing on his body, gently waving them around, putting them on his back now he is better.

I bought my horse knowing he was fearful and very green, I thought it was because of the way the dealers were treating him. It was to a certain extent but he will always be hyper alert/fearful that is just the way he is. I have really enjoyed seeing this horse slowly becoming calmer and less stressed. As to the vets that said to sell him, my answer was whom would you sell this horse to? He needs a rider that is patient and is savvy enough to work with the issues. That kind of rider is really hard to find. I would worry about selling my horse because I could see that he might get in the hands of someone who is intimidated by him. If not handled correctly I can easily see this horse turning into one of those problem horses that gets passed from owner to owner getting treated worse and worse until ending up at auction. It doesn’t sound as if you are ready to sell yet and I would try the Magnesium and see if it works for you.[/QUOTE]

Couple of thoughts: I’m trying the Thinline pad on both horses and it seems to help. They have a closeout on one of their models so may be worth a try.

I think desensitizing is fun and useful, but when they see the same thing “out there” it really boils down to the horse/rider combination.

Today I said I’m just going to spend time every day with her. We did a bit of head-down cue, longeing over cavaletti for the back end, got on, shoulder-in for the front end and mental check-in, opened a gate, sidepassed over a log one step at a time, more cavaletti for the back end, did a little low jumping, chased the flock of wild turkeys away (sorry, I got off for that one) and cantered around as if we were the Pony Express delivering mail on time. I find horses to be so much more motivated if the rider has a destination in mind, no questions asked and they deliver.

And yes, this type of horse needs to be with the right person. They are easily ruined. I’ve had several trainers work with us, and their opinions have seriously ranged from “absolutely wonderful horse that can do anything” to “dangerous”…

[jnel]

I was wondering how many times it would take seeing something before my guy would decide it was ok. I joked with my instructor that I thought he needed to see something 20 times or more. Some things he will never be comfortable with and just trying to reduce the level of reaction is progress. You have a wonderful attitude about your horse, I like the work you are doing! I hope things work out for you both. :yes:

[matryoshka]

There was a rider some time back who had trouble with her horses spooking at kangaroos. Gangs of them would suddenly come upon a horse and rider, and her horse would panic. I think I would, too.

Bank of Dad has the right idea.

Pretty horse, BTW. You sound like you want to keep trying. I think your mindset will make a big difference to your horse. I’ve also heard about magnesium having a quieting affect, but I haven’t seen it demonstrated yet. I have a little, reactive Arabian now, and she arrived spooking at leaves. She calmed down within a few weeks of arrival, but still seemed reactive even after she’d been on Mg for a while. I’ve got her on it (along with having her on a low NSC diet) because she’s got a body type that is likely to become IR. Calmness as a side effect would be welcome.

[Kyzteke]

[QUOTE=jnel;3658012]
I was wondering how many times it would take seeing something before my guy would decide it was ok. I joked with my instructor that I thought he needed to see something 20 times or more. Some things he will never be comfortable with and just trying to reduce the level of reaction is progress. You have a wonderful attitude about your horse, I like the work you are doing! I hope things work out for you both. :yes:[/QUOTE]

You know, I realize “desensitizing” a horse can be helpful, but you will never prepare a horse for EVERYTHING it is going to see.

That’s why John Lyons (an example – other trainers may espouse this as well) believes, NOT in desensitizing, but in “teaching your horse to face his fears.” I think Parelli calls it using their left brain, or something.

It’s a series of exercises and a riding philosophy that basically teaches the horse to THINK, which horses don’t in times of stress. They MOVE, then think later. You teach stuff like automatic lowering of the head, etc.

Then you test it with countless exposure to new things – it’s not meant to “desensitize” a horse to everything it could possibly see or be afraid of (that would take a lifetime) – but instead it gives the horse (and rider) a chance to practice control. Kind of like Fear Factor for horses <g>.

Personally, I think that the rider has more to do with this than anything, especially for a horse who is hyperalert to begin with. Hyperalert usually means ultrasensitive, and that means if you are nervous, worried or even an overerlly “strong” rider it bothers this type of horse even more. They DO take “more riding,” and you (the rider) must be constantly aware. Aware, NOT tense.

I think you should ALWAYS be aware when around horses, but some people want to just completely “chill” and you sure can’t do it around these type of horses.

OP: If you’ve only fallen off twice in 2 years, that’s no biggie. That happens <g>. But it DOES come back to enjoying the horse. Maybe she’d make a nice dressage horse instead.

[Kyzteke]

[QUOTE=Shadow14;3657264]
Thanks Merlin is incredable but this guy I feel is also fantastic.
Look at where he hands are, one holding a pole, the other holding his hat. The reins are tied to his waste. This horse is really handy and I assume agian a Luistanio???
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qhuip8kyBTU&feature=related[/QUOTE]

Lusitanio or Andalusian.

Afew years ago I spent 2 days at the L/A championship here in the PNW – talked to dozens of owners/trainers and saw 100’s of lovely horses.

According to what I was told, both breeds sprang from the same stock, although they have different studbooks now. But the Andalusian (Spain) was used both in the bull fighting ring and as a classical dressage horse.

THe Lusitanio (Portugul) was used primarily for cattle work, and also in the bull ring, although in this country they don’t kill the bull.

THere was a demo by a rider using this pole, but the guy wasn’t this good.

BTW, it was the tradition of this sort of highly trained “bridle horses” who moved from only seat/weight, in a balanced, collected manner that the Spanish grandees brought to California. The cowboys of that area and the buckeroos of OR,WA,ID,MT have carried on the tradition…people like Tom Dorrance, Ray Hunt, Buck Brannamen, etc.

THIS is a “made bridle horse” in action. And yeah, the guy can obviously ride.

Isn’t this SO pretty to watch? This is partnership.

[pines4equines]

Hay

I did have a hard time with the stabbing of the bull in those videos. Call me a wussy but I feel squeamish at that…I mean is super fabulous but yuck…

[Kyzteke]

[QUOTE=pines4equines;3658599]
I did have a hard time with the stabbing of the bull in those videos. Call me a wussy but I feel squeamish at that…I mean is super fabulous but yuck…[/QUOTE]

Yeah, well, think what they go through before they end up as a burger. That’s probably not a laugh riot either.

When you’re raised for human use, your life is not always a bed of roses.

[tkhawk]

Yes it is difficult-but much better than the sport of “Jallikattu” in my birth state in India. There they have something similar to the running of the bulls. Only they tie something to the bull’s horn and you are supposed to get it from the horn to prove your bravery . No weapons allowed-usually the human is the one that gets hurts. Those bulls over there are much quicker than the Spanish bulls -more “hot blooded” and inflict some serious damage on humans. They actually intoxicate the bulls to make them more violent. They always get to live too…People actually do this willingly!!
Just my thing is if somebody is going to get hurt-I would rather it be the bull-short of outlawing these things!

[matryoshka]

Kyztek, I have similar thoughts about desensitizing. In my view, “bombproofing” isn’t really about desensitizing the horse to every possible stimulus (though we try :D) but more about the horse and rider learning how to get through scary times together as a team. It sounds like jnel’s horse could have faulty wiring, so her course of action might be the best for that particular horse.

I took my husband’s home-bred WB to a bombproofing “clinic” this summer. Poor horse is ridden only a few times a year, and I made him go on a two-hour trail ride followed by this bombproofing gig. It’s a long story, but I was committed to go to the BP clinic and Ajax was the only horse I had available.

He did great. The ranger there thought he should have approached the objects more willingly, but I was thrilled with his accomplishments. His biggest challenge was the swinging noodles obstacle–probably because he could feel them as well as see them. The mattress, mylar baloons, and various ramps turned out to be no big deal. The question is why a horse who is rarely ridden and very sheltered would do all of that whacky stuff for me. The answer lies partly in his laid-back disposition, and partly in the way we approached the obstacles. I respected his fear but didn’t pander to it. I had to throw out the ranger’s advice and go with what the horse and I had worked out between us.

By the end, he was looking for more obstacles. I think I’ll take him on a judged trail ride this year. Also, he needs to try jousting and some of those medieval games. I recently learned to carry a spear on horseback and should keep in practice.

[Kyzteke]

[QUOTE=matryoshka;3660716]
Kyztek, I have similar thoughts about desensitizing. In my view, “bombproofing” isn’t really about desensitizing the horse to every possible stimulus (though we try :D) but more about the horse and rider learning how to get through scary times together as a team. It sounds like jnel’s horse could have faulty wiring, so her course of action might be the best for that particular horse.

I took my husband’s home-bred WB to a bombproofing “clinic” this summer. Poor horse is ridden only a few times a year, and I made him go on a two-hour trail ride followed by this bombproofing gig. It’s a long story, but I was committed to go to the BP clinic and Ajax was the only horse I had available.

He did great. The ranger there thought he should have approached the objects more willingly, but I was thrilled with his accomplishments. His biggest challenge was the swinging noodles obstacle–probably because he could feel them as well as see them. The mattress, mylar baloons, and various ramps turned out to be no big deal. The question is why a horse who is rarely ridden and very sheltered would do all of that whacky stuff for me. The answer lies partly in his laid-back disposition, and partly in the way we approached the obstacles. I respected his fear but didn’t pander to it. I had to throw out the ranger’s advice and go with what the horse and I had worked out between us.

By the end, he was looking for more obstacles. I think I’ll take him on a judged trail ride this year. Also, he needs to try jousting and some of those medieval games. I recently learned to carry a spear on horseback and should keep in practice. ;)[/QUOTE]

I totally agree.

I really don’t like to be the first guy on green horse anymore (older, artifical hip), but the last horse I started myself was a 3 yr. old VERY alert Arab. We spent a ton of time on ground work (some old traditional stuff, like side-reins, cavellettis, etc) before I finally got on her. I wanted to make sure I had control.

I taught her stuff like how to pony off a bicycle, etc. and because of the bond (she was my only horse at the time), she would follow me.

When we finally attended one of those clinics like you describe, I had to listen to all the Arab jokes, but she turned out to be one of the best behaved in the clinic.

She also didn’t like the streamers (and I’m not sure why…they go under trees in the pastures…), but was great with every thing else. People were so amazed.

And she IS hyperalert – she notices everything. Even at age 16 (yeah, I still have her), she would be the one that would survive in the wild. But (most of the time) she’s willing to let me decide what is dangerous and what isn’t…

Which is a good thing…it’s amazing how quick that little fat girl still is when she feels the need.

[matryoshka]

Kyzteke, do you actually prefer sensitive horses? I know I do. They give instant feedback and are very good for improving riding/handling skills. You always know where you stand with a sensitive horse. I used to hate them before I had a really tough one who taught me how to ride differently. Once I understood their needs, I developed a taste for the kind of sensitivity that leads a horse to mirror you every move–including the mistakes.