Debbies explanation for what went wrong with Brentina

[QUOTE=wanderlust;3446019]
The video can be seen on youtube. I was expecting to see a mildly off horse. What I saw was a horse that had serious issues in any movement that required extension of that particular hind leg (I think it was right, although I forget now), or when pivoting and so much weight was supported on that hind leg (hence the falling out of the canter pirouette). So, makes sense that piaffe and passage were ok, as they are not requiring extension and the front leg is helping evenly support her weight. The extensions, and the canter pirouette where her weight is supported on the inside hind? Ouch! Poor horse.[/QUOTE]

Can you post the link I can’t find it? Thanks

Brentina at the Olympic selection trials:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3JFHcmpv3XQ

Brentina at Beijing:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mCCSvgo9BI

One doesn’t have to be involved in an equestrian sport for long to see examples of older horses kept going. it happens all the time. It’s not rare.

She’s definitely off at the selection trials. I’m not a lameness expert but looks like right front, low, (guessing here) her foot from the way she points the toe.

I still think this pair should have gotten individual medals at the 2002 WEG. Wasn’t she sound at Athens? I remember thinking that she should have medalled there too.

I just read at Wikipedia that she had a tendon strain in 2004 and 2006.

I used to know a horse who would have his gaits go haywire like this when he’d tie up. He was sound, but the gut pain and reaction to heat (because it always happened when it was hot) would just make him look dog lame. Maybe that’s what happened here? I don’t have a clue…and I hate to speculate.

Point being that SOMETHING wasn’t right with the mare. Debbie knows it, judges knew it, vet knows it, all of us know it. And it sucks, but it happens.

Do dressage judges ever excuse a horse that doesn’t look right?

[QUOTE=slc2;3446060]
One doesn’t have to be involved in an equestrian sport for long to see examples of older horses kept going. it happens all the time. It’s not rare.[/QUOTE]

We had the same with our horse Darwin. However he wasn’t fit enough to train and compete at the GrandPrix and certainly not for the Olympics, he won many championships at Junior level.

Never the less (and I may sound like a broken record) when you can’t see that a horse is uneven/irregular/lame you should find another job.

Theo

Ok I have watched 5 min and 55 seconds, I have not seen a spook, and she was lame in the extended trot, the half pass and looked sore in the walk… Her canter was bad…Although I think it is the rider’s responsibility to put the horse’s welfare over his or her own goals she must have been under a great deal of pressure. I think Klaus should not be overlooked in this. Watch her flying changes in slow motion on YouTube and take a look at what her left hind is doing…What an embarrassment that they are saying she is fine…:no:

Brentina is very clearly lame on the right hind, and everything looks labored. Just look at some of the other videos of the other rides. Night and day. Way more than NQR. Compared to the other rides it looked labored and in slow motion.

[QUOTE=Kenike;3446091]

Point being that SOMETHING wasn’t right with the mare. Debbie knows it, judges knew it, vet knows it, all of us know it. And it sucks, but it happens.[/QUOTE]

According to the Dressage Daily article linked above, the horse passed every vet inspection, was examined routinely by three vets, and was cleared as sound an hour before the event (when they could still substitute another horse). She then passed the all vet tests again, after the poor performance.

Clearly, this was not the Brentina we’ve grown to love, but at this point, the vets are saying there is nothing physically wrong with her. Now, I love conspiracy theories as much as the next person, but every single horse can and does have bad days. Big Brown, anyone?

I know that Brentina has had soundness issues in the past. She most likely should have exited the world stage the first time they talked about it a few years ago. I do want to note, though, that Bob and Debbie were my trainers way back when – when they were big into hunters – and I can say with complete certianty that didn’t matter how cheap (and mine was, relatively speaking) or how expensive the horse, each one was treated with fanatically good care and was incredibly well looked after. I know people change, I know that the lure of a big prize can make one do things that one would not normally do. But the Bob and Debbie I knew (and still see on occasion) would not knowingly or willingly risk a horse.

Equestrian is the Laughing Stock @ NBC

It should now read U.S. Dressage is the Laughing Stock of the Equine World if we contiune to try and claim this mare is anything but lame…

try this.

Watch the video.

Pretend it is Salinero,

then give your objective opinions.

Please note, it is just a suggestion. I have not said anything negative about horse or rider.

I love that mare…but she’s obviously lame.

So sad. She should not have been shown…and if it only really revealed itself to Debbie mid ride, she should have withdrawn. She could have. and I bet she’ll beat herself up, or already is, for not letting that mare quit when she was obviously upset and hurting. I feel bad for her, I know she felt caught between a rock and a hard place.

If BB can get pulled for flaking in the Belmont…then this mare can get pulled mid ride in the Olympics :frowning:

Girl, you know as well as I do that there is good crisis management PR and there is Spin Doc In Action. See the video yet? Have a peek. :frowning:

I know, Coreene, I know. And I also wonder if an Olympic vet’s version of “sound” is different from mine (or many of us, for that matter); lord knows I’m such a horse-a-chondriac that I’m paranoid about every little hiccup, bump and “Oh, GOD! Was that a short step?!?!” any of my horses take.

Yes, I think the horse looks off/uncomfortable/should have been in a pasture a while ago. But there’s a part of me that also knows that if vets are telling you the horse is sound, nothing’s wrong, yadda yadda yadda, there’s a strong desire to ignore what your butt’s telling you.

Me, I’d pay attention to my butt. I wish Debbie had.

Ah yes, but you do sign over control of the horse to USEF for the duration, so you can’t really do a lot.

And then again there is also the thought that many have voiced privately, but few have posted: did you want a gimpy Brentina, or did you want Neruda going up centerline?

Look, ultimately they took an arrogant risk bringing the horse along in the first place. And it backfired. Maybe they’ll learn from it. And then, maybe not.

What a contrast to Nicholas Touzaint pulling his horse from eventing because, right before the dressage round, the horse felt NQR.

But maybe she is…now?

I know she looked NQR out there. I’m just not sure I can say exactly what is wrong. But honestly and truly, maybe whatever it was, passed shortly after the ride and the mare is fine?? It’s entirely possible. Not probable. But possible.

And, from what it sounds like, she’s retired now so who will ever know??? They can say she’s fine and she probably is technically fine. She will move on to her retirement life and they won’t have to face the scrutiny of another competition.

spook

I will not enter the soundness debate, but having just watched the video on youtube (thanks for providing the link) and having seen Brentina in person twice, once in California and once at WEG 2006, I can say that in Hong Kong she was not behaving like the horse I have seen before. There was no doubt she was spooked and ready to bolt, just look at how tight Debbie had to hold her when exiting the arena. Perhaps that’s even why her lengthenings were not there, worrying that she would run. NOT typical of Brentina, poor thing. My heart goes out to Debbie, a skilled and classy competitor and a nice person, and I congratulate her on keeping her chin up, not breaking down even when devastated, and here’s to Brentina, who has put in a remarkable career and been anchor on many teams. May she have a long and happy retirement.

I know they’re saying she’s fine now, and I know they said she was fine within an hour of start time. All I was trying to say is that everyone is well aware something certainly wasn’t “fine” with her during the test.

I have to ask why the judges didn’t excuse her. Seriously, how many people do we have here from all over the world? If we can see it, why couldn’t they? Which, of course, they did because they scored her on it. But why not excuse her? Risk the forever soundness of a horse over an embarrassing moment of excusal during the Olympics?

I’m trying to be diplomatic with my posts, but I’m also scratching my head here. (seems I’m not the only one)

Sometimes when your running and you cant breathe. That kinda throws the rest of the body off. Besides that she was unlevel or uneven how ever you call lame. She couldnt breathe eithier.