Since the OP opted to add a stride in every line - that was your plan and not a whoops not going to make the distance so lets add here. Since the plan was to add in each line that made your rounds more consistent, keeping a rhythm etc. which may have given your rounds a boost. I’m not a judge but some would rather see consistency, rhythm, over rushing down the lines to get the distances - which can end up w/ chips, or leaving long, or just look dangerous.
[QUOTE=Prime Time Rider;7676004]
The divisions were unrated (2’6" - 2’ 9") but at a rated show.[/QUOTE]
When I judge, adding a stride to me in the lower height divisions, even at an A show (pre-children, pre- adult, short stirrup, 2/2’3 low hunters etc) does not close the door on a good ribbon, as long as it fits in the round… In a situation where a green horse/rider need to add. I personally like to see the extra stride in each line, not just one. Consistency to me is important. And a plan…I would rather see the add, rather then running down the lines to make “the number”, that to me is dangerous and does not teach the horse anything other than to be quick…
Would the add trip win against another one that does the correct (by that I mean how the distance measures on tape), it all depends on the other trip as well; jumping style etc.
I really try to keep an open mind and never say never…
In an unrated division with low fences and no in and outs, adding everywhere won’t necessarily keep you out of the ribbons. If there’s any way that your horse could have been mistaken for a large pony, you’re even better off. I knew a pony who did the unrated low schoolings at 2’6" by adding everywhere and he often won.
It’s up to the judge. A beautiful course with the numbers will probably beat you, but a rough course with the numbers might end up below you.
The fact that there are no in and outs is the key here in my opinion.
[QUOTE=MintHillFarm;7678251]
When I judge, adding a stride to me in the lower height divisions, even at an A show (pre-children, pre- adult, short stirrup, 2/2’3 low hunters etc) does not close the door on a good ribbon, as long as it fits in the round… In a situation where a green horse/rider need to add. I personally like to see the extra stride in each line, not just one. Consistency to me is important. And a plan…I would rather see the add, rather then running down the lines to make “the number”, that to me is dangerous and does not teach the horse anything other than to be quick…
Would the add trip win against another one that does the correct (by that I mean how the distance measures on tape), it all depends on the other trip as well; jumping style etc.
I really try to keep an open mind and never say never…[/QUOTE]
The horse I used to show in our local circuit (unrated) was a little QH. He was about 15.1, cute jumper, cute mover, had beautiful changes, but (no surprise) was short-strided. We always did the adds. He was very consistent and often won. There was no way he was going to get the numbers at 2’6"; I would have had to gun him at the lines, and that would have been risky, not to mention unattractive.
My little guy often beat nicer horses because he was so consistent. On the occasions when he was beaten, it was usually because I made a mistake or there happened to be a nicer horse with a longer stride (who also made no mistakes) in the class. Only once did I show under a judge who refused to place anyone who did the adds.
[QUOTE=MintHillFarm;7678251]
When I judge, adding a stride to me in the lower height divisions, even at an A show (pre-children, pre- adult, short stirrup, 2/2’3 low hunters etc) does not close the door on a good ribbon, as long as it fits in the round… In a situation where a green horse/rider need to add. I personally like to see the extra stride in each line, not just one. Consistency to me is important. And a plan…I would rather see the add, rather then running down the lines to make “the number”, that to me is dangerous and does not teach the horse anything other than to be quick…
Would the add trip win against another one that does the correct (by that I mean how the distance measures on tape), it all depends on the other trip as well; jumping style etc.
I really try to keep an open mind and never say never…[/QUOTE]
MintHillFarm - I think I love you. You are actually taking quality of the round into consideration and not just the strides.
No matter a rated show or unrated, a AA hunter division or short stirrup hunters, the performance is JUDGED by the Judge. It is solely the Judge’s discretion what horse gets what ribbon.
[QUOTE=Prime Time Rider;7676129]
Yes, I know the scores are used by the judges to organize their card. My question is what is the usual, or standard number of points a judge will deduct for consistently adding a stride in each line.
For example, my friend at the same show received a score of 45 for her first classic round after she dropped a rail. So, one can assume that the judge deducted 40 points from her score for dropped rail.[/QUOTE]
I think a score of 40-45 is commonly used for a rail or trot, circle or other major error. At least I do…It is hard to say if the score for her round would have been 85 without seeing her trip.
No there is not an"set deduction of points" the usef gives a general guideline of what a 70 score should look like, what 75 should look like, what an 80… And so on. Each judge scores a little differently but by a little I mean, usually a 1-3 pt difference. Judges want to see safe, consistent rounds and on some days/shows the horse that does the ads and does it well will win. Now, those ads are not going to win in all classes in all parts of the country at the best shows, but keep doing what you need to do for now. Build confidence, be safe, do what you need to do for you and your horse. 
Dropping a rail is NOT an automatic 45 any longer, UNLESS it is the riders fault. That rule changed about 2 years ago.
[QUOTE=ComingAttraction;7678948]
Dropping a rail is NOT an automatic 45 any longer, UNLESS it is the riders fault. That rule changed about 2 years ago.[/QUOTE]
In the eq. Still a major fault in the hunters.
[QUOTE=AmmyByNature;7678961]
In the eq. Still a major fault in the hunters.[/QUOTE]
This is correct. For Hunters, it’s a no-no…
In the EQ as Ammy says, it is a different story.
I would say a lot of issues in this day and age have to do with striding whether your horse has a huge stride and has to crawl or has a short stride and has to run neither is a pretty picture. I think judging should be based on consistency and in your case it probably was because it wasn’t a bigger A rated division. I’ve seen ponies in the 2’6" division beat horses even though they added a stride
I was always taught that at the lower heights (below 3’), the add was not to be penalized. If the add is consistent and planned, it was treated as the horse doing the step.
While not a rated show, I competed in a 2’6"/2’9" division once under a BHJ. I did the lower height with the add and won the division.
[QUOTE=GypsyQ;7679121]
I was always taught that at the lower heights (below 3’), the add was not to be penalized. If the add is consistent and planned, it was treated as the horse doing the step.
While not a rated show, I competed in a 2’6"/2’9" division once under a BHJ. I did the lower height with the add and won the division.[/QUOTE]
Another case of no set rule…there is nothing in the USEF rule book about adding strides in the under 3’ divisions…and again your round, with the added stride was likely the best of the performances in that group that day…
When talking about adding strides, it becomes an issue of “best of the worst” type scenario. No, there is no reason why any modestly athletic horse going a decent pace couldn’t do the strides (and generally in the lower level classes the jumps aren’t even set on 12’ striding). As a judge, when I see adding, it’s typically due to a) unathletic/short strided horse, b) lack of pace, c) crookedness or d) major rider error. Oh and don’t forget lameness!
So yes, assuming the other trips are also not great (which you see a lot in the lower levels, even at rated shows) you can still win with an add. That win may be a 65, but it can still beat the horse that breaks, the horse that zooms around like a maniac leaving out strides, the horse that refuses, the horse that knocks rails, etc. Of course, going up the levels you see better and better trips and that horse that adds naturally will place worse and worse.
[QUOTE=hntrjmprpro45;7679328]
When talking about adding strides, it becomes an issue of “best of the worst” type scenario. No, there is no reason why any modestly athletic horse going a decent pace couldn’t do the strides (and generally in the lower level classes the jumps aren’t even set on 12’ striding). As a judge, when I see adding, it’s typically due to a) unathletic/short strided horse, b) lack of pace, c) crookedness or d) major rider error. Oh and don’t forget lameness!
So yes, assuming the other trips are also not great (which you see a lot in the lower levels, even at rated shows) you can still win with an add. That win may be a 65, but it can still beat the horse that breaks, the horse that zooms around like a maniac leaving out strides, the horse that refuses, the horse that knocks rails, etc. Of course, going up the levels you see better and better trips and that horse that adds naturally will place worse and worse.[/QUOTE]
I think this is a very clear explanation.
FWIW adding is a top 3 offense to my trainer. If I add I can guarantee that I will be getting an ass chewing when I walk out of the gate.
Out of curiosity… why pick adding as a “fault” that shouldn’t count? Should missed lead changes not count? Late lead changes? Skip/disunited lead changes? Crookedness? Trantering? Downed rails? Why pick one fault and decide that doesn’t matter, arbitrarily, but the others still do.
There’s a reason striding is part of the equation-- if you go back to the origins of the sport, for hunting you wanted an athletic horse with sufficient stride for the jumps in the hunt field.
I don’t really understand those whose opinion is “if it looks smooth, it shouldn’t matter.” I agree it’s not as MAJOR a fault as some others (i.e. downed rails, running out, etc.) but it’s still something that does not add up to the perfect platonic ideal 100 hunter horse. That horse has, among other attributes, sufficient stride for the job.
Actually the slavish use of striding is relatively recent. When hunters showed over hunt courses judges weren’t sitting there counting to 24 between fences. The jumps mattered, getting lead changes mattered and way of going and manners mattered.
Certainly at the division level, the horses should get the strides. Not getting the strides will always decrease your score but at certain levels it is far less a fault than many other common occurrences.
As an announcer I often sit with judges and at local and entry levels. There, in a class of 10 horses at 2’3 or so, only 2 or 3 horses CAN make the lines (without running) judges prefer a well ridden add that results in a good jump out over a charging line resulting in a leap out. At “entry levels” it shows thoughtful riding and most judges want to reward that.
Once you move into the higher levels it is far more important. By the 3’, yu should be getting the numbers and certainly above that.
At a one day show where the lines may be set for three foot later in the day I wouldn’t imagine the adds would be penalized below 2’6 and, indeed, I’ve seen the add win more than once. At 2’6 and above my trainer insists we make it down the lines come hell or high water, which (for me) can sometimes result in the awkward add in just one line that really knocks me out of the placings. (This is a poor riding issue and not a horse issue so I think the penalty is warranted.)
I’d love to see a consistent, smooth add not being penalized across the board (rated, unrated, whatever) below three foot.
