Defusing a potential explosion- what would you have done?

[findeight]

WWID? Avoid the situation. You have changing weather, a fresh horse only 2 weeks back to work that only gets ridden 3 times a week after a long layoff , other horses nearby doing something else and a situation where he is more likely to get overexcited then not. And he’d never been ridden in that field before…,snug contact may have backfired on you too if he is not well schooled to accept it. Don’t forget he was originally trained to run into the bit, don’t know how much schooling he has in yielding to it…he might have thought he was going to be asked to run and confusion lit the freshness/overstimulation fuse.

No no matter what kind of an idiot trainer may or may not be, it’s their job to teach, they probably won’t change what they plan in a lesson for one non lessoning, non owner rider. It was predictable the situation you put yourself in would not result in a successful ride. Not dissing you but…I would expect what happened not be surprised by it. That’s a lot to expect of a fresh, green horse working alone with a crowd nearby. What do you think he learned from that schooling session? They either learn or unlearn every time they are handled. It helps if the horse trusts the rider too…he barely knows you and hasn’t learned to look to you for guidence if scared or excited.

You can assume Trainer is not going to change her lesson plan for you so you need to re-evaluate your program and choices to avoid putting yourself in this type situation where failure is the most likely outcome. Yeah, Trainer should probably have let you know what she was going to ask the class to do but…those taking lessons that are asked to wait or adjust what they want to work on for a non lessoning rider on a green horse often start threads on here complaining about having to do so when they are paying for that time, there’s two sides to that story.

Getting off is sometimes the best option, BTDT, but it is a reward for the horse and if they really get excited, you are not in a great position to control any explosions, you can get knocked down or dragged around trying to hang on to him. And, again, what would that teach him?

Make friends with the lunge line and don’t just chase him around, side reins are a great choice with situations like this. Either you need to get to the barn more days or get someone else to at least lunge days you can’t get there, IMO 3 days a week isn’t going to get an excitable green horse bred to be…energetic…too far. IME it isnt even enough for the less energetic breeds, they may not blow but they often forget new concepts if it’s not schooled every day.

Might be blunt here but this is a typical problem that can be fixed with more thought and better choices aimed at success and not risking failure. Even if you don’t do much, it has to end on a good note…even if it ends early.

[cnvh]

@Come Shine

Good for you OP! That sounds hairy

Not to derail and maybe I should start a new thread. My coach told me it is always safer to stay on top than get off in a bad situation. My default has always been to want to get off.

Is it safer to try and stay on?

I’ve heard this too, but I think it depends on the situation and the skill of the rider. There have been times where I’ve felt safe enough to put my OTTB into a working 15-20m trot circle to get the devils out, but there have also been times where he’s become so unhinged that I took the safest moment I could find to hop off-- I am not someone who has a natural Velcro-butt, and I would much rather be safely on the ground under my own volition than to be launched like a missile. (That’s not to say that Horse doesn’t IMMEDIATELY get put back to work with me on the ground though-- if I have to get off, he does NOT get to go back to the barn!)

[vxf111]

I agree with F8. Wisdom is the better part of valor and all.

[CPL713]

I’m probably repeating what others have said, but I think you did the right thing. I have an 8 year old OTTB and if I know I can work through it (he’s just being quick, lookie, spooky, hopping a bit, etc.) I stay on and do lots of small circles, bending, lateral work, changing directions, etc. If he gets that “I’m gonna BLOW” feeling, however, I get off and make him work on the lunge line. If I think he’s going to be too wild for lunge work, I hope that the ring is empty and not slick so I can free lunge him in there first to let him get the crazy out, THEN put him on the line to work on focus, THEN get back on. lol

If he’s spooky, I don’t let him stop to look at things - we go forward and we bend away from the scary stuff. If he gets to straighten out and get a hard look at something, then I’m in trouble. Doesn’t mean I crank down on him, but we go to work and redirect that energy. A lot of spookiness is just energy that needs an outlet.

I don’t think that relocating to let him simmer down is teaching him anything bad, in this specific case. When they get wound that tight, they aren’t going to learn anything, IMHO, and you’re just risking a bad ride or fall. I’d rather let him blow off steam safely, then get back on when he can focus (or at least be in his right mind). I think you know what I mean - it sounds like he was a little outside his mind at that point, so the only risk you ran was falling off and THEN him learning, “hey, I can buck and she gets off” :lol:

TBH, if I was in your shoes I probably would have lunged before ever getting on and, depending on how he lunged, I might not have even gotten on. Might have just worked from the ground and practiced our transitions and listening skills that way. If I did get on, I would have tried to ride on a looser rein. Not saying to throw the reins away by any means, but give him room to relax and then redirect that energy where you want it. Tight reins tend to make a tense horse even more tense, at least in my experience.

[GoodTimes]

I think you did the right thing.
Every horse has a different mind, athletic ability, and different reactions.
I’ve got two horses. The older one’s version of blowing up is getting a little light in front and getting really strong. Lots of circles will diffuse the situation. The younger one is the most athletic horse I’ve ever been on. 99% of the time when he’s going to blow up it’s not out of fear, it’s attitude. He can go full rodeo like a Bronc coming out of the chute. With him I get off, let him chill. When I’m on him I’m the enemy, when I get off I’m the leader and he follows. I give him a minute and get back on and we can usually go back to work without an issue.

[BatataHead]

This is a favorite topic of mine as I had some rough early times with my OTTB, who thankfully now is a pretty chill dude.

Given the particular circumstances and horse you had, I think you did the right thing. You say he was calm once he was in the ring, so consider it a success.

@Fiona_785

So, how do you guys handle it when you feel your horse building up like that? Like when you can literally feel they’re like a wound up coil ready to pop? How do you channel that energy and do you ever just hop off?

For your general question, it depends on the circumstances. I generally stay on, except in one situation. If the horse freezes and is shaking, and I mean blank, checked out stare and whole body shaking, I’ll get off. I’ve only had that happen twice, it was real fear, and I’d honestly rather the horse break away without me and run off, if that happens, than be riding or attached to a truly scared horse who has completely checked out.

Otherwise, generally I stay on, and try to keep the horse forward and busy. It is easier to ride out antics, I think, on a horse moving briskly forward than a bunched up horse that might go zero to sixty in any direction suddenly. I think the advice not to clamp down and not try to shut the horse down is great, especially with OTTBs So I try to ignore the antics, push forward, even pushing into a canter or continuing an unasked for canter, asking for shoulder fore, big serpentines, changing things up, and trying to find moments to give forward with the reins and lengthen the frame, as unintuitive as that may seems. And try to stay emotionally neutral about the experience and not take it personally, and not think that the ride is a failure etc.

Although I totally agree with the “sit up, long legs, relax, stay back” method, I personally find riding a really hot, erratic horse easier in a jumping saddle with short stirrups, and staying in two point. I get up off his back, heels well down, shoulders and chest up and back, and don’t post - I stay up in two point and absorb the movement with my joints, like jumping. If you’re posting and you get a buck or big hump at the wrong moment the timing can pop you up out of the saddle quite a bit. If you’re already up, I think it is easier to absorb. But that’s just me.

My horse was not a bolter or bucker, but a teleporter, spinner, slam on the brakes then plunge, and favorite move was enormous dolphin leaps into the air. Once after a hairy ride in the jump arena someone who had been watching from a distance said, “You guys really jumped some big stuff today!” I was like - “No, we weren’t jumping.” He said, “I saw you take some big jumps.” Nope. That was just my horse leaping into the air. Not over a jump. Albeit with a nice bascule, and me in two point.

[Fiona_785]

Thanks everyone so much for the replies! Lots of good advice here and a great discussion!

@WalnutGroveEq YES- the turning the horse in on itself maneuver is what I instinctively did and it does work to get them to slow! I used to have a bolter so I learned how to manage it with the pulley-rein technique. Only trouble at first was he’s strong so he got me unseated with a buck and was able to pull me forward. Eventually, the pulley-rein is what got him to stop running, thank god :lol:

@findeight This horse isn’t “green” at all- he’s very well schooled. He was an eventer who is used to cross-country, water jumps and small banks, and was showing locally in the 3’ hunters,. Like I said in my original post, he is usually very, very chill, which I why I ride him. I’m actually surprised at how he’s been so calm for me when we ride outside! My old warmblood would never have been so relaxed, that’s for sure. I think this was just an unusual event where a trainer with some “interesting” tactics had his rider doing something I wasn’t expecting, which in my opinion, was rude and stupid to not at least give me a heads up about but that’s beside the point of my post. I am an adult and I’m aware that we can’t always control our surroundings hence why I presented the question for positive techniques to get them to settle in such a situation. I’m not interested in having a horse who can’t go outside, especially with winter coming and we’ll be cooped up in as it is. Instead I’m interested learning techniques to manage spooky behaviors and be able to ride safely outdoors on this horse that can learn to handle it. Trust me, nobody would ever accuse me of being a reckless rider who takes too many risks :lol: I’m probably too conservative as it is!

But really I don’t think taking the horse out into the field to do a slow W/T hack is worthy of much derision, is it? He’s proven himself to be a gentleman otherwise so I trusted him and I still trust him, just not that trainer And in regards to only being able to ride 3x/week I’d LOVE to be able to ride more, you’ve got to be kidding me, HAHA. If only I were rich If he were my horse I’d have him on training board but he’s not so we work with what we have right? Considering training board in my area pushes $2000/mo for a fairly modest show barn, it’s quite cost-prohibitive so I’ll do what can with him with my 3-4x a week for now.

[Fiona_785]

@vxf111

I agree with F8. Wisdom is the better part of valor and all.

While I agree with the quote, I’m not sure what I did was all that unwise? I rode a usually quiet horse at a controlled pace in a polo field next to the riding ring. It wasn’t an issue until the galloping around us started with no warning. It’s not like I can see the future and know that a trainer was going to just send his student out flying at me with no regard. If I had known they were going to be galloping recklessly and unannounced then of course I’d have stayed in. Who even does that? It’s definitely one of the less considerate things I’ve seen (but sadly not the worst by far.)

[Fiona_785]

@TheHotSensitiveType

This happened with my mare and I a few weeks ago… The outdoor riding area is next to a pasture. We were cantering from back to front when I hear thundering hooves behind me… My mare bolted at this point, convinced that something was indeed out there to eat her and she was not going to be the one that went down!!!

The sound of thundering hooves is almost like an instinctual trigger for them isn’t it! Most horses do react to the sound in my experience so when I hear it, I automatically start trying to get the horse’s attention back on me, haha. I just know it might not go well, being the herd animals they are.

Off-topic but I had a mare who was set off BIG time by llamas, of all things. We were trail riding one day and unbeknownst to be a llama farm was on the path. I just hopped off when I noticed she was about to blow a gasket and it wasn’t going to be worth the battle. Getting off made her feel more secure anyway and I led her on by the creepy, long-necked, horse-eating monsters and never went that way again :lol:

[vxf111]

@Fiona_785

While I agree with the quote, I’m not sure what I did was all that unwise? I rode a usually quiet horse at a controlled pace in a polo field next to the riding ring. It wasn’t an issue until the galloping around us started with no warning. It’s not like I can see the future and know that a trainer was going to just send his student out flying at me with no regard. If I had known they were going to be galloping recklessly and unannounced then of course I’d have stayed in. Who even does that? It’s definitely one of the less considerate things I’ve seen (but sadly not the worst by far.)

Fresh greenish horse ridden 3 days a week in a field where he’s never been ridden before while legging him up and machine noise is happening is asking for excitement with or without another triggering rider

That is not at all how I would have handled exposing him to being ridden in the field for the first time or something I would have tackled in his second week back after a year off

Then after the first galloping past you didn’t leave immediately but let there be a second incident even after you felt him be shook up from the first

Hindsight is 20/20 but you were asking a fair amount from a rehabbing greenish fresh horse that day. After a year off EVRYTHING is triggering/exciting and you asked him to take on a few too many exciting things all at once

[Scribbler]

If I feel that I’m on a horse that has basically lost its mind, and isn’t listening to me at all, I get off right away. It’s past the point of being a teachable moment. At that point the horse isn’t going to win or lose anything; it isn’t even thinking about me. I feel that I have more skills on the ground for dealing with horses in that state.

On the other hand, if you manage to stay on the horse, don’t get hurt, and are able to ride the situation through, that’s great.

[Fiona_785]

@vxf111

Fresh greenish horse ridden 3 days a week in a field where he’s never been ridden before while legging him up and machine noise is happening is asking for excitement with or without another triggering rider

That is not at all how I would have handled exposing him to being ridden in the field for the first time or something I would have tackled in his second week back after a year off

Then after the first galloping past you didn’t leave immediately but let there be a second incident even after you felt him be shook up from the first

Hindsight is 20/20 but you were asking a fair amount from a rehabbing greenish fresh horse that day. After a year off EVRYTHING is triggering/exciting and you asked him to take on a few too many exciting things all at once

Oh COTH how you never change… I remember why I left these forums years ago…

Anyway, if I may clarify AGAIN, I was making my way OUT of the field but they took another run before I could make it out. I was at the far end of the field. I also wasn’t “legging him up”? Not sure how you came to that conclusion but I was riding quiet, slow and soft, as I’ve said more than once now. And guess what, I lived and didn’t get hurt or even close to it, so I mustn’t be that much of a demon now right?

For Pete’s sake, can people not ask a question without other’s jumping on them and making up stuff to use against them? Can we have an adult discussion without the holier-than-thou bullshit? Why the negativity? This forum doesn’t change does it- it’s nearly impossible to have a civil discussion without the added accusatory and mean-spirited comments that bring nothing to the actual discussion. And it’s always the same old people who doing it as well. Let’s be adults and be kind to one another, life is hard enough as it is to go around creating more negativity in the world. I wanted a discussion about defusing a building spook because as riders it’s something we occasionally have to deal with. Most posters replied with helpful and thoughtful advice and I appreciate that, so thank you Others just felt like bullying and adding details that aren’t even true to fuel their argument. Come on now.

[vxf111]

@Fiona_785

Oh COTH how you never change… I remember why I left these forums years ago…

Anyway, if I may clarify AGAIN, I was making my way OUT of the field but they took another run before I could make it out. I was at the far end of the field. I also wasn’t “legging him up”? Not sure how you came to that conclusion but I was riding quiet, slow and soft, as I’ve said more than once now. And guess what, I lived and didn’t get hurt or even close to it, so I mustn’t be that much of a demon now right?

For Pete’s sake, can people not ask a question without other’s jumping on them and making up stuff to use against them? Can we have an adult discussion without the holier-than-thou bullshit? Why the negativity? This forum doesn’t change does it- it’s nearly impossible to have a civil discussion without the added accusatory and mean-spirited comments that bring nothing to the actual discussion. And it’s always the same old people who doing it as well. Let’s be adults and be kind to one another, life is hard enough as it is to go around creating more negativity in the world. I wanted a discussion about defusing a building spook because as riders it’s something we occasionally have to deal with. Most posters replied with helpful and thoughtful advice and I appreciate that, so thank you Others just felt like bullying and adding details that aren’t even true to fuel their argument. Come on now.

OP, you’re being way too overly sensitive. Seriously. Go back and read my posts. You asked for advice. I’m not personally insulting you. I’m not piling on. I’m not making stuff up. I’m not being negative. I am telling you why I wouldn’t have been out in the field to begin with. I use the term “legging up” to mean getting a horse back in condition after rehab. I think it’s asking a lot to ask a horse that’s been out of work, isn’t fit, may be fresh, is a little on the green side to work in a new environment with a mechanical noise. That was not a recipe for success. I don’t know where you’re finding the negativity in that advice. It’s the same advice F8 gave and others as well.

You can’t handle hearing POLITELY that someone would do something differently than you? Life (not just these forums) is going to be hard. Learn to take constructive comments in the spirit in which they were intended and not as some kind of a personal slight. There is nothing mean spirited in anything I posted. Not even close. And, actually, I think if you read back through with more of a level head and not looking for an insult where there is none, you’ll have to agree.

I actually think you owe me an apology for accusing ME of bullying (a pretty serious accusation). That was way over the top. You asked a question, I tried to be helpful. I never cast aspersions on you, called you names, belittled you, etc. I explained to you why what you did was not setting the horse up for success, and why you could have done things different to not have the horse lose it in the first place. You’re not going to find any definition of bullying that my advice fits.

[Fiona_785]

89

@vxf111

OP, you’re being way too overly sensitive. You asked for advice. I’m not personally insulting you. I am telling you why I wouldn’t have been out in the field to begin with. You can’t handle hearing POLITELY that someone would do something differently than you? Life (not just these forums) is going to be hard. Learn to take constructive comments in the spirit in which they were intended and not as some kind of a personal slight.

I’m well into adulthood and I know how life is. I didn’t feel the replies were polite, and I felt they were intended to make me feel bad and to belittle rather than inform or educate. Perhaps some context gets lost in text, we all know that, but when people start adding negative details that aren’t true it looks like they’re trying to bolster their counter-argument. And why argue? I prefer to stay positive so let me say that I appreciate your telling me what you would do and providing advice, so thank you. And relax, you weren’t the only one to whom I was referring but your comment to another poster higher up came across to me as condescending. It wasn’t appreciated.

[Scribbler]

@Fiona_785

89

I’m well into adulthood and I know how life is. I didn’t feel the replies were polite, and I felt they were intended to make me feel bad and to belittle rather than inform or educate. Perhaps some context gets lost in text, we all know that, but when people start adding negative details that aren’t true it looks like they’re trying to bolster their counter-argument. And why argue? I prefer to stay positive so let me say that I appreciate your telling me what you would do and providing advice, so thank you. And relax, you weren’t the only one to whom I was referring but your comment to another poster higher up came across to me as condescending. It wasn’t appreciated.

Well, I figure if I ask for advice in a public forum, I’m going to get a wide variety of replies. Some of them will be useful, and some will not. The not useful ones may be that way because the poster misunderstood the situation, or because we have very different assumptions about riding or horse care. Sometimes the misunderstandings can be cleared up, but lots of times people just browse through the thread and toss up a reply, without reading for comprehension.

So I figure the price of getting the useful advice, is skipping over the not-useful replies without getting too worked up over them, or defensive because I’ve been misunderstood.

[Sueby]

@Fiona_785

While I agree with the quote, I’m not sure what I did was all that unwise? I rode a usually quiet horse at a controlled pace in a polo field next to the riding ring. It wasn’t an issue until the galloping around us started with no warning. It’s not like I can see the future and know that a trainer was going to just send his student out flying at me with no regard. If I had known they were going to be galloping recklessly and unannounced then of course I’d have stayed in. Who even does that? It’s definitely one of the less considerate things I’ve seen (but sadly not the worst by far.)

As you said, it’s an eventing and polo barn. I’d expect them to do those kind of exercises more often than not.

The reponses I’ve read weren’t impolite or intended to belittle you, I’ve read them all and found some value in each one. If you didn’t, you weren’t reading objectively IMO.

As Scribbler said above, when you post something online, expect responses - good or bad. That’s the nature of the beast. And swearing in your responses to a ‘bully’ smacks of irony.

[findeight]

Sorry you took offense. I was answering what I understood the question was, you just said it was a leased 7 yo OTTB who was only 2 weeks back in work after being off for a year you could only ride 3 days a week and you were in a polo and a Eventing barn… I assumed he was Green since he blew so bad you had to get off and you didn’t say a thing about how well well trained an Eventer and 3’ Show Hunter he was prior to the injury. You didn’t state your maturity or riding ability level leaving it open for speculation on how riding skills might or might not have influenced the situation escalating as it did. Plus, still don’t have any idea how often you have ridden this horse, it sounded like very few if it’s 3 times a week starting 2 weeks ago when he was cleared to resume working.

Can only go off what you share. Also keep in mind advice is often general aimed at many others who might experience similar situations, don’t take it personally if some doesn’t specifically apply to you.

Often, as horses return from lengthy lay ups, they are quite calm at first. But as they start regaining condition they start feeling too good and the lid can come off when you least expect it. I stick with the advice to try to avoid any situation that has potential to turn bad. And he needs some pre ride outlet for that newfound energy to avoid displaying that freshness in an undesireable way. And most in his situation progress faster when worked more often.

If that does not apply to you, just ignore it. But others might benefit if fits their situation,

[Fiona_785]

@findeight

Sorry you took offense. I was answering what I understood the question was, you just said it was a leased 7 yo OTTB who was only 2 weeks back in work after being off for a year you could only ride 3 days a week and you were in a polo and a Eventing barn… I assumed he was Green since he blew so bad you had to get off and you didn’t say a thing about how well well trained an Eventer and 3’ Show Hunter he was prior to the injury. You didn’t state your maturity or riding ability level leaving it open for speculation on how riding skills might or might not have influenced the situation escalating as it did. Plus, still don’t have any idea how often you have ridden this horse, it sounded like very few if it’s 3 times a week starting 2 weeks ago when he was cleared to resume working.

Can only go off what you share. Also keep in mind advice is often general aimed at many others who might experience similar situations, don’t take it personally if some doesn’t specifically apply to you.

Often, as horses return from lengthy lay ups, they are quite calm at first. But as they start regaining condition they start feeling too good and the lid can come off when you least expect it. I stick with the advice to try to avoid any situation that has potential to turn bad. And he needs some pre ride outlet for that newfound energy to avoid displaying that freshness in an undesireable way. And most in his situation progress faster when worked more often.

If that does not apply to you, just ignore it. But others might benefit if fits their situation,

Thanks for providing your perspective. Yes, I can see that my post left a lot open to interpretation and I can understand some of the responses I got now. It was the “wisdom vs. valor” comment that made me feel like I was being called a fool. I’ve been on COTH off and on for over a decade and I guess I was just over-reacting and applying memories of past instances where people were fighting and arguing quite often. I do see a change between then and now though and I’m glad to be active on the boards again.

I was purposely vague in my post because we all know the horse-world is a small community and I wanted to remain as anonymous as possible. I didn’t want to make it seem like I was complaining about my barn or the trainers that go there because I’m not, I’m really grateful to be able to ride at this beautiful facility on my shoe-string budget So I changed a couple details in my post including his age to preserve anonymity as best I could So some details are ballpark but not exact.

I’ve ridden him probably a total of 12-15 times. I’m an experienced rider, but not a pro and not the bravest soul in the world. I come from having spent the last 15 years in show barns with inside trainers and a predictable routine. Most people have warmbloods or non-raced TB’s; OTTB’s aren’t as commonly seen especially because we were nowhere near a track. I’ve been riding inconsistently for the last 5 years so muscle-memory isn’t what it needs to be to feel super confident just yet. And you’re right, I’m used to smaller H/J show barns which I guess are by nature quieter? I wasn’t aware of how much difference there would be in the style and culture of the stables. Alas, everything is a learning experience if you look at it with the right mindset. I rode at a barn like this as a kid back in the early nineties so I’m sure I’ll adapt again

And for now, I start all my rides in the indoor to get his brain in the right place. I ride outside and only in the ring if it’s quiet and/or I’m having a lesson. I’ve hand-walked him in the field but usually he just wants to eat the grass anyway, haha. I was feeling guilty about riding inside so much, but I’m glad to hear you say that it’s probably the better idea for now. He focuses better inside and we can be more productive with our exercises anyway.

[RedHorses]

I took my younger horse out for hack with two others after I had ridden him in the ring for 20-25 min the other day. He was having a little trouble with their chosen slooow speed, but was okay until he decided cantering was easier than relaxing into a working trot (ie. Not fast, but more forward than the initial slow trot). I did get the canter slowed but he would not trot, and when the horse ahead went a little faster mine tried to catch up, which is not his usual MO.

I decided to turn off and go back to the barn as we were close, and he started to bolt. So I shut that down and dismounted. He was still up and walking too fast and looking at the other horses. I stopped him and did a quick back, turn on forehand, repeat to get his attention and proceeded. That quick pause and work got his attention and he was dropping his head and relaxing within 50’.

Back at the barn I remounted and rode in the ring for ten minutes, reminding him that he can go different speeds in the same gait and he must listen to me. Then we went for a short hack alone and he was fine.

It’s not just getting off or staying on. It’s getting into a position to get your horse to do what you ask and bring his focus back to you. What you choose depends on the horse and the situation at that moment.

I think you handled the situation well and I probably would have done the same thing.

[Frosty_M]

@Come Shine

Good for you OP! That sounds hairy

Not to derail and maybe I should start a new thread. My coach told me it is always safer to stay on top than get off in a bad situation. My default has always been to want to get off.

Is it safer to try and stay on?

My friend felt her young tb mare coil up to explode. She dismounted. The mare bolted out of the ring, turned left toward her home barn down the highway, and was hit by a car and killed. All situations are different but my friend was very blessed she got off. Save your self first and live to ride another day.