Deleted :)

[Badger]

[QUOTE=flash1;6700315]
I’ve been hunting for some time now…and we have never killed anything…I for one would not want to be part of that…tradition or not…I love being out there and watching the hounds work…that’s our goal…I didnt realize that hunts acutally did that…[/QUOTE]

If you are live hunting, you ARE a part of that. You are, indeed, HUNTING. All the PC talking of “chasing” is just that, PC talk. The hounds are doing their darnedest to track and catch their quarry. And it does happen on occasion. Anyone riding to hounds on a live hunt should accept and come to terms with that fact.

Now, what I enjoy about hunting is the chase, the hound work, the great outdoors and my wonderful horse and my foxhunting friends and the wiles of the quarry and the mysteries of scent. And many other things. I’m glad that in my decades of hunting, the kills have been few and far between. But I’ve considered and come to terms with the fact that ever time i hunt, something may be caught. For the hounds and their quarry, there is no PC line that they run up to and stop at. Hunting is legal, time-honored, and it’s in my blood. I don’t need to apologize or deny I’m doing it. If I wasn’t comfortable with this reality that something could be caught, I wouldn’t hunt…despite the fact that almost every hunt I’ve ever been on was only a chase or a blank day hacking out.

I don’t enjoy a kill, but I can be happy for the hounds whose breeding and training and hard work paid off. I’m glad that much is done to give the quarry a fair shot (and then some), I.e. no dropped foxes or blocked earths and we stop hounds when the game runs out of hunt country (and the quarry figures out what is and is not hunt country pretty darn quick).

I love to hunt, enjoy the chase immensely, but accept that every time we move off from a fixture those hounds are trying to do what they have been bred for generations and centuries to do. And I’m not going to ignore or deny or apologize for it. Hunting isn’t for everyone, but I hope those that do hunt learn about and accept what they are a part of.

[Badger]

[QUOTE=Katyusha;6701657]

On another note, this is one of the best threads I’ve ever read in a forum. Any forum.[/QUOTE]

There was another and very similar thread on this subject some years back that you might want to read:

http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/showthread.php?34004-A-little-misunderstood-Apparently-a-good-thread-to-learn-from

[cssutton]

[QUOTE=Badger;6701686]
If you are live hunting, you ARE a part of that. You are, indeed, HUNTING. All the PC talking of “chasing” is just that, PC talk. The hounds are doing their darnedest to track and catch their quarry. And it does happen on occasion. Anyone riding to hounds on a live hunt should accept and come to terms with that fact.

Now, what I enjoy about hunting is the chase, the hound work, the great outdoors and my wonderful horse and my foxhunting friends and the wiles of the quarry and the mysteries of scent. And many other things. I’m glad that in my decades of hunting, the kills have been few and far between. But I’ve considered and come to terms with the fact that ever time i hunt, something may be caught. For the hounds and their quarry, there is no PC line that they run up to and stop at. Hunting is legal, time-honored, and it’s in my blood. I don’t need to apologize or deny I’m doing it. If I wasn’t comfortable with this reality that something could be caught, I wouldn’t hunt…despite the fact that almost every hunt I’ve ever been on was only a chase or a blank day hacking out.

I don’t enjoy a kill, but I can be happy for the hounds whose breeding and training and hard work paid off. I’m glad that much is done to give the quarry a fair shot (and then some), I.e. no dropped foxes or blocked earths and we stop hounds when the game runs out of hunt country (and the quarry figures out what is and is not hunt country pretty darn quick).

I love to hunt, enjoy the chase immensely, but accept that every time we move off from a fixture those hounds are trying to do what they have been bred for generations and centuries to do. And I’m not going to ignore or deny or apologize for it. Hunting isn’t for everyone, but I hope those that do hunt learn about and accept what they are a part of.[/QUOTE]

A great post.

Yours is an excellent post and I have no quarrel with one single word of it.

However, I wish I had said at the beginning what I will say now.

This thread is without any doubt driving Dennis Foster nuts.

I can assure you that every one of you that he can identify and that belongs to a MFHA member club will in some way feel pressure from him.

He very rarely contacts the victime in person, but almost always goes it through a second or even third party.

So it is my advice to anyone belonging to a MFHA member club that they drop the subject, unless of course they are very secure in themselves and in their position within their club.

[Lady_Eboshi]

To fail to acknowledge the hunter, and indeed the warrior, part of human nature is to live in denial of half our humanity. It also fails to pay Nature the respect it is due, and denies us the opportunity to take full posession of, and yes, responsibility for our human position as the pinnacle predator. The farther we get from exposure to Nature, the less time our children spend with REAL animals in the outdoors, the more we are going to louse things up.

Hiding who and what we are under a politically-correct veneer of shrink-wrap and bar-codes while delegating the work of bringing home the meat is hypocritical at best. It’s a sorry day when even on the Hunting Forum we can’t have an open and free conversation about, well, hunting!

[kt-rose]

[QUOTE=Badger;6701686]
If you are live hunting, you ARE a part of that. You are, indeed, HUNTING. All the PC talking of “chasing” is just that, PC talk. The hounds are doing their darnedest to track and catch their quarry. And it does happen on occasion. Anyone riding to hounds on a live hunt should accept and come to terms with that fact.

Now, what I enjoy about hunting is the chase, the hound work, the great outdoors and my wonderful horse and my foxhunting friends and the wiles of the quarry and the mysteries of scent. And many other things. I’m glad that in my decades of hunting, the kills have been few and far between. But I’ve considered and come to terms with the fact that ever time i hunt, something may be caught. For the hounds and their quarry, there is no PC line that they run up to and stop at. Hunting is legal, time-honored, and it’s in my blood. I don’t need to apologize or deny I’m doing it. If I wasn’t comfortable with this reality that something could be caught, I wouldn’t hunt…despite the fact that almost every hunt I’ve ever been on was only a chase or a blank day hacking out.

I don’t enjoy a kill, but I can be happy for the hounds whose breeding and training and hard work paid off. I’m glad that much is done to give the quarry a fair shot (and then some), I.e. no dropped foxes or blocked earths and we stop hounds when the game runs out of hunt country (and the quarry figures out what is and is not hunt country pretty darn quick).

I love to hunt, enjoy the chase immensely, but accept that every time we move off from a fixture those hounds are trying to do what they have been bred for generations and centuries to do. And I’m not going to ignore or deny or apologize for it. Hunting isn’t for everyone, but I hope those that do hunt learn about and accept what they are a part of.[/QUOTE]

So very true! I love to hunt, have tried to stick to the hunts who avoid the kill and in over 30 years only remember 2 foxes killed – one ran into the road and was hit by a car (along with a hound, very bad day) and the other was clearly old or ill – but it is what it is, we are hunting and you can’t sugar coat that. We respect the fox, the hounds, the horses, the tradition and the land and live to preserve all of that for many reasons only a piece of which is the sport. If you are going to hunt you have to come to terms with all the truth of it. It’s not a trail ride…

[Gestalt]

[QUOTE=kt-rose;6704783]
So very true! I love to hunt, have tried to stick to the hunts who avoid the kill and in over 30 years only remember 2 foxes killed – one ran into the road and was hit by a car (along with a hound, very bad day) and the other was clearly old or ill – but it is what it is, we are hunting and you can’t sugar coat that. We respect the fox, the hounds, the horses, the tradition and the land and live to preserve all of that for many reasons only a piece of which is the sport. If you are going to hunt you have to come to terms with all the truth of it. It’s not a trail ride…[/QUOTE]

I hear what you are saying and I agree. What is disturbing to me is the “ritual” that happens after an animal is killed.

[cssutton]

I started hunting in 1941 and never stopped.

I was blooded very shortly thereafter, not sure exactly when.

Frankly, I never cared for it, but there are also a lot of other customs in foxhunting and in fact in life in general that I don’t care for.

However, it never has occurred to me to criticize practices that others consider a passage.

Nor to even comment on the customs others consider important.

So long as it harms no one, and I doubt that it harms a dead fox, it is not that important.

So I say again:

If we do not wish to lose our freedom, we must learn to tolerate our
neighbor’s right to freedom even though he might express that freedom
in a manner we consider to be eccentric.

Protect your privacy. Replace Google with https://startpage.com/

[Ajierene]

We also must accept the freedom of others to express disapproval in our customs. You cannot simply say that you must have your right to do what you want and deny someone else the right to do what they want - as long as what you want does not harm anyone and what they want does not harm anyone. Here, we are speaking of nothing that harms anyone else (save the fox).

So, do not spout the need for preserving freedom while wishing to deny someone theirs.

[cssutton]

You are correct that good manners and the admirable ability to mind one’s own business are at times in conflict with the 1St Amendment.

Like in so many other cases where there are choices, some people have trouble determining which choice to make.

[altjaeger]

OP, please retitle this thread to “The taxonomy of vascular plants” so people will stop reading it and it can die!