I have the fudge recipe… 
Blasphemy, I know… but I don’t care for the fudge
Me neither, V; give me a lemon stick any day! 
I have the Devon fudge recipe too but it is sort of like scratching your back, it’s always better if someone else does it for you! It has got me through a serious craving a time or two however.
I’m glad it’ll be on Sunday! I can’t wait to go watch HB at Devon for the first time
Bad move for HB!
I absolutely HATE that the day was changed for Devon HB. This is a huge blow to our division and will absolutely kill what little interest/support for it we still had. The HB being on Grand Prix day was a great draw for spectators… It was an honor to be in that time slot and gave our division the pomp and feel of a true competition that you cannot find at any other show (with the exception of Warrenton).
All 3 shows of the HB “Triple Crown” hold their HB classes on the biggest day of the show- Devon (Grand Thurs), Upperville- ( Grand Prix Sunday) and Warrenton (Hunter Classic Saturday). This new schedule is a joke.
Nobody came to watch the Hunter Derby on Sunday… All vendors packing up and out the gates before the final bugle call is even a thought. Why would you think anyone will come for the HB on Sunday?
The Devon Hunter Derby was boring, just another hunter class. I realize that creativity for course design is limited by that ring but seriously lacked wow factor in any aspect. Make it a night class like the Hunter Spectacular at WEF… That would certainly make it more exciting and fun!
Complete fail Devon!
Emily Anne Belin
The first year the Devon derby was a night class. It took forever and I recall a LOT of complaints re: spookiness of the ring. Several big time horses had ISSUES and the scoring was sort of all of the place and people really didn’t enjoy it. Something made it go soooooooooooo slow. I can’t recall what it was now (opening a gate? leading over a jump? but it took forever).
I agree that our derby is boring. We’re kind of stuck in terms of the ring but we really need to inject some creativity in to make it more fun.
I have been at Devon for breeding day for the past few years, had a horse in the YHUS twice. Covered it for the newsletter. There is never more than a handful of people spectating until around 2/3pm and those people who start filing in at that time aren’t even really watching-- they’re seat holding and starting to tailgate for the PM classes and the GP. It’s pretty quiet all during the hunter breeding.
Look, I really enjoy HB (put my own horse in and hope to do so in the future) but it’s not that fun to watch. It’s really not. Its a bunch of horses mainly standing while someone looks at them and takes notes. I appreciate it… but even I can acknowledge that it’s not much of a spectator sport. Maybe a weekend day will get more ammy/local handlers and horses out?
Unfortunate…
For those who think that Sunday will be a calmer day for their excitable young ones, I think the commotion of trucks and take-down will be a surprise. I’ve been to Derby Sunday for the last three years…the atmosphere of Devon is there everyday.
Moving the Derby to Thursday won’t make it anymore exciting. It needs a course revamp–perhaps a reason why entries aren’t as desired. It should be more exciting, that’s how you get spectators, not riding on the coattails of the GP as folks seem to think the breeding does. I agree, a night class would be fun to watch with some interesting twists.
[QUOTE=Midwest girl in an East coast world;7446501]
Moving the Derby to Thursday won’t make it anymore exciting. It needs a course revamp–perhaps a reason why entries aren’t as desired. It should be more exciting, that’s how you get spectators, not riding on the coattails of the GP as folks seem to think the breeding does. I agree, a night class would be fun to watch with some interesting twists.[/QUOTE]
I haven’t been to Hunter Breeding at Devon since I was a junior and could cut school to go see it, but I feel for all of you who have been involved in it for decades. This schedule change really is such a huge break in tradition, and Devon is really all about tradition. They got rid of the Welsh Pony division decades ago, so I feel your pain in worrying that this is the first step in getting rid of Hunter Breeding. I truly hope it doesn’t happen.
The first year Devon had a Derby (five years ago I think) it was at night under the lights (I think it was the last Saturday night) and the place was PACKED. I mean TOTALLY PACKED. The course was awesome, and I really don’t remember any extra spookiness, but it was a long time ago. I also have never heard anyone complain about how long it took, and I remember a bounce in the handy round, but no dismount/open gate requirement. I’ve watched the Derby at Devon every year since then, when it moved to the last Sunday morning, and everyone I’ve spoken to agrees that it went way downhill since the first year. Every year since then the course has become more and more boring. They don’t even try anymore.
There is no way after the last four years of boring courses that moving the Derby to Thursday mid-day will generate more interest from a spectator stand-point, but it doesn’t seem that is the goal anyway. And the excuse that the Dixon Oval presents constraints with regards to the derby type course is not completely true - they went all out the first year when it was at night and it was a huge success spectator- and competetor-wise.
I can’t recall what it was that took so long, but I know we had a start and stop time (which is usually highly accurate) and it went way over. I really can’t remember but SOMETHING made it take AGES.
I don’t recall the first year course being really particularly UNUSUAL/FUN but I agree with you the last few courses have been BORING and we need to make the derby a lot more fun/interesting. Moving it to mid-show is partially going to accomplish that, I think.
Complaints were from BNTs who had spooks or stops or just bad trips and were unhappy that some people showed before it got dark and/or the course walk was before it got dark and then some people had to jump under the lights. Things running long may have also had something to do with it-- people expected to go at X time and then it was later/darker when they actually did.
It’s been a while, I don’t have a strong memory. I do recall a LOT of excitement that first year, some “usual suspects” having uncharacteristically bad trips, complaints, and it taking way way WAY a long time. I remember I was going home on the R5 and I was really concerned I’d miss the last one.
[QUOTE=ynl063w;7448375]
I’ve watched the Derby at Devon every year since then, when it moved to the last Sunday morning, and everyone I’ve spoken to agrees that it went way downhill since the first year. Every year since then the course has become more and more boring. They don’t even try anymore.[/QUOTE]
This! It is so disappointing to see how dull the hunter derbies have become. I started watching the one at Devon last year on live streaming and gave up. The one at the Hampton Classic wasn’t any better. Even the finals in Kentucky last year were boring; the handy round wasn’t much different than a regular handy hunter class. I hope the PTB in USJHA notice this and encourage shows to swing the derby back to the way it was supposed to be - more than just a plain handy hunter!
[QUOTE=Janeway;7449506]
This! It is so disappointing to see how dull the hunter derbies have become. I started watching the one at Devon last year on live streaming and gave up. The one at the Hampton Classic wasn’t any better. Even the finals in Kentucky last year were boring; the handy round wasn’t much different than a regular handy hunter class. I hope the PTB in USJHA notice this and encourage shows to swing the derby back to the way it was supposed to be - more than just a plain handy hunter![/QUOTE]
I can’t comment about any other Derby classes, because the only one I get to see in person is at Devon every year. And what I have seen at Devon is that the first year, when it was at night and under the lights, the turnout from both a competitor and spectator point of view, was the best they have had. I’m not doubting that some BNTs complained about showing under the lights (although don’t a good number of them do that at WEF before they come to Devon every year?) because I don’t personally know any of them. However, I have a hard time believing that was why the class was moved to daylight hours after that first year, because there have been fewer entries in the derby at Devon every year since then, and the only difference other than moving it from night to day was that it was moved from Saturday night to Sunday morning.
I also remember about two years ago when there was an oxen at the end of the ring at the end of the course that caused a rail down for just about EVERY big name derby horse (any numerous not-so-big-names) that entered the class. The handy round was seriously lacking in top horses because of that. I would think THAT would have resulted in many more complaints than showing under the lights.
It will be interesting to see who sticks around for the derby this year compared to the last few years, but I’m not planning on watching in person this year. It’s one thing to head to Devon on a Sunday morning to watch some really nice horses and riders over a “derby” course, but I’ll be damned if I’m going to waste a vacation day to do it.
I did not mean to imply that complaints were the only (or even primary) reason why the derby moved. I was just pointing out that there were complaints. I think the gist of it was that a hunter class that starts half in the light and half in the dark isn’t a level playing field. The fact that everyone boffed a big oxer (until people wised up and took the other option) isn’t an issue of the unlevel playing field. Not a scientific analysis, just my take. Sometimes I am around to hear the complaints, sometimes not. I don’t know FOR SURE but I do recall some BNTs being unhappy with the class going when it did the first year and I surmise it’s because of the way the class started before the sun set and then ended after it had. AND that it took FOREVER.
Remember that in 2009, the year it was at night, it was BEFORE the pro divisions. The Dixon Oval is HARD. And at NIGHT? For horses that didn’t get in there first during the day in a regular pro division? I mean, that’s hard. Not many spookier things than your first round of a show being over maxed fences, in the Dixon Oval, at night. I think that was the gravamen of the complaints. IIRC the junior riders (who had gotten in the ring) mostly went around well but some pro horses had uncharacteristic unglueings.
Moving to the last day should make a BIG difference entry-wise. Junior horses that did not make the cut for the pro divisions LEAVE. They do not stick around and they did not stay just for ONE class at the VERY end of the show. Putting the derby closer to the middle of the show might entice some additional people to stick around. The second biggest jumper class (Idle Dice Stakes) moved too. Also to try to put the more important classes during the more active times of the show. Now the derby is going to be closer to junior week AND after the pro horses got a chance to get into the ring for their regular classes. It’ll be the same day as the Grand Prix but during the day so as not to have the dark/light issue.
Trust me that no one is out to get HB and certainly I think it’s no secret that many of us think the derby could be better. I love HB but like many things I love (crossword puzzles, baking, etc.) it’s not always such a spectator friendly sport.
[QUOTE=vxf111;7450157]
I did not mean to imply that complaints were the only (or even primary) reason why the derby moved. I was just pointing out that there were complaints. I think the gist of it was that a hunter class that starts half in the light and half in the dark isn’t a level playing field. The fact that everyone boffed a big oxer (until people wised up and took the other option) isn’t an issue of the unlevel playing field. Not a scientific analysis, just my take. Sometimes I am around to hear the complaints, sometimes not. I don’t know FOR SURE but I do recall some BNTs being unhappy with the class going when it did the first year and I surmise it’s because of the way the class started before the sun set and then ended after it had. AND that it took FOREVER.
Moving to the last day should make a BIG difference entry-wise. Junior horses that did not make the cut for the pro divisions LEAVE. They do not stick around and they did not stay just for ONE class at the VERY end of the show. Putting the derby closer to the middle of the show might entice some additional people to stick around. The second biggest jumper class (Idle Dice Stakes) moved too. Also to try to put the more important classes during the more active times of the show.
Trust me that no one is out to get HB and certainly I think it’s no secret that many of us think the derby could be better. I love HB but like many things I love (crossword puzzles, baking, etc.) it’s not always such a spectator friendly sport.[/QUOTE]
I’m not arguing with you at all, but I guess my point was that the first year Devon had the derby it was Saturday night under the lights and everyone who was anyone was there. The next year they moved it to Sunday morning and only some of those who are anyone were there, and it’s been downhill since then. So people were willing to stay until Saturday night the first year, but when it moved to Sunday morning? Not so much.
Honestly, at this point I think Devon should forget the Hunter Derby (it really doesn’t resemble a derby anyway and no one cares about it at this point) and focus on how to keep the Hunter Breeding division alive since that’s a division that has a real history at Devon and there are plenty of people who really seem to care about preserving it.
Also remember that in 2009 the whole CONCEPT of a derby was new and every show didn’t have one. Now a lot of shows do. I think that had something to do with the dropoff in entries also.
Also, I can tell you from looking at the entries that the last 2 years a lot more “somebodies who were anybody” were planning to do the derby but scratched due to the extreme heat. NOT because they didn’t stick around until Sunday. They were still there, they just didn’t show because of the heat.
Uh, if entries is how we nominate classes to get dropped off… I have a whole SLEW that have not had more than 5 in a class in the 9 years I’ve been a chair that I can think of that can go before EITHER the derby or HB.
[QUOTE=vxf111;7450207]
Also remember that in 2009 the whole CONCEPT of a derby was new and every show didn’t have one. Now a lot of shows do. I think that had something to do with the dropoff in entries also.
Also, I can tell you from looking at the entries that the last 2 years a lot more “somebodies who were anybody” were planning to do the derby but scratched due to the extreme heat. NOT because they didn’t stick around until Sunday. They were still there, they just didn’t show because of the heat.
Uh, if entries is how we nominate classes to get dropped off… I have a whole SLEW that have not had more than 5 in a class in the 9 years I’ve been a chair that I can think of that can go before EITHER the derby or HB.[/QUOTE]
Oh I get it from your perspective. I’m just looking at Devon from the traditional point of view. After years of being taken there as a very small child to watch, to riding there in the Welsh Pony division when I was 9 years old (on a lesson pony belonging to my trainer), to showing my own ponies in the hunt teams, to doing the parent-child class with my mother (under the lights at night; me on a lesson pony as my pony at the time was a 3 year old, and my mother on a lesson horse), to showing in the horse hunt teams (again under the lights on a horse that was not by any means a show horse), I get the Devon tradition.
If the Hunter Derby was going gangbusters as far as entries, it would make sense to keep it going. But not only has it not taken off since it’s inception a mere five years ago, it’s LOST interest in a big way every year since it started. For this reason, I would rather see the Hunter Breeding stay on the schedule to keep with the tradition that is The Devon Horse Show, than kick Hunter Breeding to the curb for the sake of the Derby.
HB is just moving days?! Not being eliminated?!
If we want to go with true tradition, we’d have all women riding in sidesaddles and show in no saddle pads etc. The hunts teams used to actually BE FROM HUNTS. So if tradition was the criteria, you probably wouldn’t have gotten to compete.
Things have to evolve. The derby’s a popular concept, it’s a money class, and it’s something an AA show really needs to have. And people DO want to watch it (it got loads of live streams in addition to people watching it live). HB, as much as I enjoy it, has little in the way of a spectator fan base. Switching days is hardly the death knell for HB that some people are suggesting. I’ve been there for HB. There is hardly ANYBODY watching. The people who show up around 2/3pm… AREN’T WATCHING and they don’t care. They’re hanging out waiting for the GP. Moving to Sunday probably won’t have a discernible effect on the number of spectators… and it might get more local people out to show youngsters.
Ccompletely disagree with you. Devon is OUR gold standard, while it is just another derby in a year filled with derbies. Our whole year is planned around peaking the babies at Devon. When we evaluate youngsters, the unasked question is if it can win at Devon. The classes have been on Thursday since long before any of us were born. So why do we have to give up our date to try to resuscitate an already very sick patient? The number of spectators isn’t the issue. It is shoving us to the last day, when everything is being torn down to move out. The Young Hunter Under Saddle will be tiny, as none of the pros who have supported it will stay just for that. It will be a class just for PA horses.
Devon needs to work on attracting MORE exhibitors (remember how many saddlebreds there used to be?) into the classes they already have, not add ones that really aren’t designed for the facility. Leave the GP the crown jewel.
I was just thinking about this because of the meeting tonight.
HB folks are upset because their classes were moved to a quiet day at the end of the show and now they’re not on the same day as a “big draw event,” namely the grand prix.
But the pony breeding has (as long as I can recall) been at the beginning of the show on a day when virtually nothing else is going on except equitation. So they’ve always had a quiet day without a “big draw.” They even (gasp) managed to do their thing in the GOLD RING. Somehow they’ve managed to get by without a big draw. A lot of the same argument being made apply-- not all the vendors are fully stocked/set up, entries are light, no “big draw class,” the pool of proespective buyers potentially isn’t there yet. Isn’t it the “gold standard” of their season too?! And yet they always seemed ok even if they were on the quitest/lightest day of the show?!
So why is it such a problem that hunter breeding is now getting the same treatment that pony breeding gets/has gotten? Somehow they’ve always been ok even if not scheduled on the same day as the grand prix.
YHUS has to be all “PA horses”… the class is “Young Hunters Under Saddle - Pennsylvania Bred” and aside from a sprinkling of BNRs it’s always pretty much local PA owners, riders, owners, and pros.
Managing to show your ponies or horses in this case and being happy about the move aren’t the same thing. They will soldier on if you hold it Monday after the show is over if need be. If you ask me it would make more sense to hold the Grand prix on Sunday or at least Saturday night. At least that way you could get some of the vendors to stick around the whole show.
