Devoucoux buffalo leather...the good, the bad and the ugly...advice!!

[hunter-jumper-rider]

Sooooo…I have been contemplating buying a brand new all buffalo Devoucoux Biarritz. I have heard that the leather quality is not up to par with Hermes leather at all…not even close…so my question is, how DOES it wear? I take EXCELLENT care to an OCD point with my tack. I love the Biarritz but I am very, very concerned with leather quality issues such as wrinkling and cracking very early on with these saddles. I have seen older buffalo Dev’s that look amazing and yet a 2009 Dev with barely any use that was already cracking.

Opinions and personal experiences on Devoucoux only and how it compares to Hermes, not any other brands. This is a thread about the leather quality only, not anything else with the saddle such as fit, what type of horse it is for, etc.

I am all for positive commentary and not merely searching for negative. It is just that the one all buffalo Dev that I DID see was like new yet already was cracked on numerous parts of it. I know buffalo has some “different” tendancies, but this was cracking like I had never seen on any other brand of French saddle. FWIW, the owner of this particular saddle took care of the saddle exactly as Dev advised her to as far as conditioning, cleaning, etc. during the break in period.

TIA!!

[bonstet]

I have a Devoucoux Socoa in buffalo that I love! The leather is beautiful, has shown little wear over four years and it is super-comfy (and grippy). I don’t have specific advice on the Hermes vs. Devoucoux, but I definitely like the Devoucoux buffalo.

[Rhody_Ram]

I have seen a couple Buffalo saddles and they look like crap after only about 4 years of use. One was an Antares, the other CWD.

When I went to buy my CWD I was interested in the buffalo seat and he advised against it. The rep said the leather is tough and hard. He said if he had several to ride he preferred to ride in the grain calf saddle because his butt would be killing him after a few rides in the buffalo. But if you only have a couple horses this won’t really matter to you. But he did say it’s really tough to break in.

The reason it’s tough to break in is because of the grain of the hair on the animal. With horses and cows–their hair grows in one direction, one grain. Buffalo hair grows in every which way, it’s kind of a mess. Consequently when tanned, the hide is much different from cow hide.

I went with grain calf and that’s what i would suggest for you. Flaps will last forever, and if you ride in breeches the seat and patches should last a long time too.

[Lucassb]

Buffalo is known for durability, not appearance.

I have had a full buffalo Devoucoux as well as one from Antares.

I went back to calf (Butet) and have been happier.

[BAC]

I know two people who have buffalo Devoucoux and while I found them to be comfortable to ride in, there is no getting around the fact that they are UGLY. :yes: At least IMO they are. They are rugged and durable, but they look it.

[Lea]

I have had mine a year and love it!! Buffalo leather seems perfect. The Devoucoux Buffalo is not as soft as my Antares Buffalo.

[FineAlready]

A friend of mine got a Devoucoux in all buffalo back in, oh, 2008ish? I always thought it looked really nice. She took great care of it, and although the leather had kind of a “crackled” appearance (typical of buffalo), it was in good shape and seemed very durable (not prone to scratching, etc.). I have not seen it recently, so can’t comment on how it is holding up, but it seemed fine for the year or so that I was acquainted with it.

I did briefly try an Antares buffalo saddle and did not like that one at all. The buffalo seemed to vary quite a bit between Antares and Devoucoux…at least when it came to those two saddles. I wonder if the cuts of hide determine quality/how the leather will hold up? Maybe it is sort of a matter of chance? I have no idea if that is true or not, but of the two buffalo saddles that I have seen up close and personal, there were not many similarities.

[morganpony86]

Thanks for the thread, OP! I’ve been considering an all buffalo Antares. I personally love the way the buffalo looks, and they seem so grippy, but it would be bought with the hope of being my “forever” saddle so I’m interested i how they hold up too.

[hunter-jumper-rider]

So is calf a better option? With Devoucoux, the calf does not seem very high quality either especially compared to CWD…maybe I have just had the misfortune of seeing saddles that were not par for the course, but that has been the experience.

I LOVE the way the Dev fits me and the way it feels. Leather quality is just worrisome to me.

Is the calf less prone to wrinkling and cracking? Does it become soft and supple? My trainer had an all calf Dev and it looked and felt like cardboard :o( Once again, maybe this was not normal, but the saddle looked like cardboard brand new out of the box and never broke in.

[AlterBy]

All I can say is that I wasn’t impressed with Devoucoux’s customer services and would worry a bit about warranty on the leather if it doesn’t hold up well… I also saw their bridles in a tack shop and frankly, wasn’t impressed with the leather…Company is getting bigger and bigger, quality seems to suffer…

I really enjoyed the buffalo leather from the hennig saddle I’ve seen and tried.

[Lucassb]

[QUOTE=hunter-jumper-rider;5344439]
So is calf a better option? With Devoucoux, the calf does not seem very high quality either especially compared to CWD…maybe I have just had the misfortune of seeing saddles that were not par for the course, but that has been the experience.

I LOVE the way the Dev fits me and the way it feels. Leather quality is just worrisome to me.

Is the calf less prone to wrinkling and cracking? Does it become soft and supple? My trainer had an all calf Dev and it looked and felt like cardboard :o( Once again, maybe this was not normal, but the saddle looked like cardboard brand new out of the box and never broke in.[/QUOTE]

Well, I know you didn’t ask specifically about the service but I will tell you that I had a NIGHTMARE experience trying to order a Socoa from them.

I had an older calf model that I loved except that it didn’t have knee pads on it. Asked them to reproduce the same saddle in full buffalo with knee pads and spent close to the next year and a half trying to get one that fit either me or my horse, and ended up having to threaten legal action to get my money back. So I would NEVER buy a new saddle from them. If you do a search, you will find I was not the only one who had these issues with this company.

That said, my first Dev was a full calf. It was beautiful, soft and very cushy. That said, ALL calf saddles require more care and attention than either printed leather or buffalo. They show dings and scratches easily (although marks on calf also tend to disappear with glycerine or a quick oiling.)

The buffalo shows up looking like suede. It is super grippy. After normal riding/care, the appearance changes to look more like a grained leather. Not as beautiful as calf, but more durable. The appearance tends to show the kind of cracking that you describe although IME they are really more “wrinkled” than cracked.

I didn’t care for that, personally, and as I say I went back to calf when I bought my Butet. FWIW, although the original Butets seemed to have fairly fragile seats (no one uses pigskin anymore, darn it all!) the new one is much sturdier and combines excellent durability and comfort with a much nicer appearance.

[hunter-jumper-rider]

^^Ah yes, I read your horror story of the service…so scary.

Was your all calf Dev an older or newer model? The older ones seem to have lovely leather wheras the newer…2006 and up has garbage leather IMO.

[flyracing]

Oh yes, hideous saddles! Look how horribly wrinkled and worn this one got after a decade of use:
http://sports.webshots.com/photo/2976138690106566483FXpkof

And this one is ridden in multiple times a day since it was made 6 years ago. Practically falling off the horse. (sorry no saddle only pic).:
http://pets.webshots.com/photo/2717272560106566483wHplKA

Guess, I just won’t be able to sell them and will have to keep them forever!

All joking aside though, I personally find the all calf to be much better looking and just as well wearing as the buffalo when specifically talking devoucoux. I think a quiet leg, quality tall boots, and low abrasion riding breeches go way farther to making a saddle last then any type of cleaning regimen and is can be impossible to know what a person has done to their saddle in those terms when looking at wear on their saddles. I had a person test ride one of my saddles and amazingly her riding position, tall boots, and full seat breeches put as much wear on my saddle that ride as I had in the last year of heavy use. She bought the saddle along with new boots and breeches (she noticed the wear without me saying it) and when I saw her 4 months later, she said it solved the problem.

In terms of the Herme’s buffalo vs devoucoux, I do think the hermes is slightly more consistent in texture, but less consistent in color, but not enough of an issue to warrant such a difference in price for the Hermes. A good devoucoux buffalo and a good hermes buffalo seem very compatible. I have not personally felt and ridden in any of the low quality devoucoux buffalo’s but it sounds like it may be a industry wide problem according to the previous postings .

A question for the OP. When you say you have seen a newer devoucoux buffalo that was cracked in multiple places, did you feel the leather and see it was actually tearing or was it wrinkling? If it is cracking in the sense that the leather is tearing, then the saddle should be sent back. That is clearly covered under devoucoux’ warranty, so shouldn’t cause much of a customer service fuss. I talked with a newer rep of devoucoux (less than 2 years) and she said they were making a big effort to improve customer relations and they are wanting reps provide more customer service instead of the company handling things long distance. It will be interesting to see how things turn out.

Have you sat in a couple of CWD to see if you get the same balance? If you aren’t really worried and aren’t fitting a specific horse (you mention nothing of a saddle fitting a horse), then that really opens the door for a CWD or like you say a Hermes. The delgrange (can’t remember which one) has a basically identical balance and fit to the biarritz.

Best of luck in your saddle search! Try and meet up with a devoucoux rep so you can feel hands on what the newer demos feel and look like. We all have our different ideas of what ideal is, so it might be the best route for you to check it out.

[TheJenners]

OK, I know you said this was only on leather, but since service has been brought up already: I had a shitty rep, hard to get in touch with, BUT the people I talked to on the phone once I got mine and since then have been wonderful and can’t complain a bit. Love Joe :).

As for leather, I just ordered mine two summers ago (well, 2009) and I got the full-grain flaps with calfskin seat and knee roll. I ride in it quite a bit, not six horses a day or anything, but in the summer probably three or four times a week, just my pony or my pony and my fiance’s horse if he’s gone, and I’m not exactly a, um, great caregiver. I did what devoucoux said to do on breaking in the saddle, and after that it’s been hit or miss. I oil it when it needs it, but haven’t actually cleaned it in, um, well, longer than I’d like to admit.

The leather is still fantastic. Soft, supple, no cracks, no rubs, looks lovely and worn in and comfy (which is it); the flaps have some wear from where my stubby little legs have rubbed them, but that’s it. My only wish is that I had gotten the darker leather, but that’s not that big of a deal really…

[morganpony86]

[QUOTE=hunter-jumper-rider;5344439]
So is calf a better option? [/QUOTE]

You can always do a combo. I’ve been toying with a buffalo seat and calf flaps…

on those saddles that you said didn’t hold up well, where were you seeing the cracking?

[hunter-jumper-rider]

Thanks for all the comments so far!
I have already owned a calf CWD but sold it because it was extremely uncomfortable for me.

The all buffalo Dev I saw had about 20-30 rides in it and was already crackly looking on the small flaps over the stirrup bars and the knee rolls AND the main flaps.

I have owned an Antares all buffalo and it was beautiful with zero crackly weird spiderwebbing issues.

This particular buffalo Dev was something I have never seen on a “new” saddle…it looked like it was ten years old!

[BelgianWaffles]

Antares buffalo is smooth. Their calf skin looks abit more wrinkly to me.

[eventer_mi]

I have a ten year old Devoucoux Biarritz in all calf, the lighter colored leather, that still looks like it’s only just been broken in. I am not the first owner, but the previous owner took beautiful care of it. I find that those people who ride in jeans put the most amount of wear and tear on the saddles. I always only ride in breeches and half-chaps.

[Lucassb]

[QUOTE=hunter-jumper-rider;5344667]
^^Ah yes, I read your horror story of the service…so scary.

Was your all calf Dev an older or newer model? The older ones seem to have lovely leather wheras the newer…2006 and up has garbage leather IMO.[/QUOTE]

First Dev was a Socoa … older, for sure. Maybe an '01? '02? Something like that. To be honest I cannot remember exactly, as I sold it ages ago.

I agree with you that the newer ones… meh, not so pretty. In any leather, unfortunately

If you can find an older one that you like and that fits you/your horse - I would grab it. They are definitely nicer, hold up better, and have the plus of already being nicely broken in.

[JA1]

I have a 2005/2006 (can’t remember) Biarritz that is full buffalo. It is beautiful and does not have the cracked appearance. It looked like suede when I received it but I greased it and it now looks similar to calf. I do grease it several times a year, whenever it looks dry. This saddle has absolutely no wrinkles etc. The key to buffalo is NOT to oil it. Oil saturates the hide too much and creates the wrinkled appearance.