[QUOTE=jstov96327;8416050]
Also, the rep was very pushy…and devoucoux was insistent that every saddle I liked of his fit my horse and i’m concerned he’s telling me that to sell a saddle, regardless of my horse’s well being.[/QUOTE]
Everytime I’ve worked with a fitter who is employed by a specific saddle brand I’ve been underwhelmed. They absolutely have a confict of interest. Caveat emptor.
There may be another dimension here besides “fit” which is both where the panels contact the horse in total and also how “live” the panels and seat are, meaning exactly what happens when weight comes down on the horse’s back. Maybe some saddles kick back a big bounce and others don’t.
I have one saddle that every horse I’ve put it on loves even though this saddle obviously doesn’t fit as well as others do on that same horse. It does happen to be a wool-flocked saddle, but I don’t think that’s the only reason horses love it. I have learned, though, to listen to the horse first and my hands and eyes second about saddle suitability.
This saddle is on my ‘want desperately’ list after riding in one for a cross country lesson last year. It was amazingly secure. I have three horses it will need to fit. I guess we’ll see.
[QUOTE=Bogie;8418996]
Gary Severson is one. He comes to Massachusetts. He doesn’t sell any saddles, only does fitting and body work. I’ve worked with him for 17 years and my horses are very happy. [/QUOTE]
So I bought my Devoucoux Chiberta in 2008 and Devoucoux Mendia in 2010. Never had an independent saddle fitter evaluate their fit. My horse has had intermittent back pain, but also has kissing lesions and is built extremely long in the spine. And cropped up with Lyme this summer.
I had Gary Severson out this fall who fully admitted to me that he did not prefer the foam-flocked French saddles before we started. However, he put both on my horse and told me they fit extremely well.
He also very quickly diagnosed the back pain and felt strongly that it was not at all related to the saddles but how my horse holds himself and could be addressed with regular body work from Doug Hannum. I feel pretty comfortable now that my saddles fit!
[QUOTE=Divine Comedy;8420225]
So I bought my Devoucoux Chiberta in 2008 and Devoucoux Mendia in 2010. Never had an independent saddle fitter evaluate their fit. My horse has had intermittent back pain, but also has kissing lesions and is built extremely long in the spine. And cropped up with Lyme this summer.
I had Gary Severson out this fall who fully admitted to me that he did not prefer the foam-flocked French saddles before we started. However, he put both on my horse and told me they fit extremely well.
He also very quickly diagnosed the back pain and felt strongly that it was not at all related to the saddles but how my horse holds himself and could be addressed with regular body work from Doug Hannum. I feel pretty comfortable now that my saddles fit![/QUOTE]
What I like about Gary is that he looks at YOUR horse and YOUR saddle and lets you know whether or not it fits. Whether or not he’s a fan of the brand. I’ve had two Stackhouse saddles that were foam. His philosophy has always been that if they fit they are fine. He told me that in his opinion, foam saddles work better on hunter/jumpers because they don’t change shape as much as event horses over the course of their season. Obviously, your mileage may vary.
My horse outgrew his first Stackhouse saddle and it was easier and more cost effective for me to sell it and buy something that worked better (I bought it used for a screaming deal and sold it for more than twice what I paid for it). My preference is for wool panels.
I believe that Devoucouxs also have a recessed stirrup bar, which also makes it wickedly comfortable for riders. However, that recessed stirrup bar also puts pressure right behind the withers, which is probably causing the muscle atrophy that another poster mentioned.
I came from a barn that used to use all Devocouxs.Then, they switched to Voltaire, but couldn’t get those saddles to fit. A few of us had Black Country saddles, which were borrowed all the time because the horses went so well in them. Eventually, they admitted to themselves that the BCs were really better for the ponies than the Voltaires, so now the barn is BC all the way.
I used to have a Chiberta. Loved it. Thought my pony went well in it, too - at least, he didn’t move significantly differently than he did in anything else, so I kept using it as it looked like it fit well. A year later, i noticed muscle atrophy right behind the withers (where the stirrup bar would sit) and then tried him in a Black Country - HUGE difference. Sold the Chiberta and haven’t regretted it, except occasionally I’ll see a Chiberta on a horse and want to go over and pet it - the leather is so damn lovely. But the pony gets the final say.
[QUOTE=Bogie;8420543]
What I like about Gary is that he looks at YOUR horse and YOUR saddle and lets you know whether or not it fits. Whether or not he’s a fan of the brand. I’ve had two Stackhouse saddles that were foam. His philosophy has always been that if they fit they are fine. He told me that in his opinion, foam saddles work better on hunter/jumpers because they don’t change shape as much as event horses over the course of their season. Obviously, your mileage may vary.
My horse outgrew his first Stackhouse saddle and it was easier and more cost effective for me to sell it and buy something that worked better (I bought it used for a screaming deal and sold it for more than twice what I paid for it). My preference is for wool panels.[/QUOTE]
And I’m the opposite. Wool panels require that you have them constantly fitted. They get out of shape, hard and do not have the same qualities that today’s modern foam (in high end saddles). The key is having the right tree shape/fit and panel shape for your horses. I use the same saddles on multiple horses-- have to understand how they fit and whether they will work on a horse. I adjust the fit with padding/half pads. I’d rather adjust with padding than wait on getting my saddles adjusted–and know that cannot have saddle built for just one horse. And honestly…IME, most horses do not change shape that much over the course of the season unless they are at the 3-4* level OR you let them get completely let down for several months.
[QUOTE=bornfreenowexpensive;8420592]
And I’m the opposite. Wool panels require that you have them constantly fitted. They get out of shape, hard and do not have the same qualities that today’s modern foam (in high end saddles). The key is having the right tree shape/fit and panel shape for your horses. I use the same saddles on multiple horses-- have to understand how they fit and whether they will work on a horse. I adjust the fit with padding/half pads. I’d rather adjust with padding than wait on getting my saddles adjusted–and know that cannot have saddle built for just one horse. And honestly…IME, most horses do not change shape that much over the course of the season unless they are at the 3-4* level OR you let them get completely let down for several months.[/QUOTE]
And that’s why they sell both kinds :). You obviously understand saddle fit.
As a foxhunter I try to avoid padding to because it tends to shift over the course of a 2+ hour hunt. I have my saddles fitted to each horse. I have a draft x and an OTTB. Their backs are surprisingly similar in shape but they are completely different widths. I will hack my TB in my mare’s saddle with a shimmed pad, but haven’t tried hunting him in it.
Her saddle, BTW, is a Schleese. I do like the adjustable trees, just prefer the wool flocking. His saddle is a Kieffer, which is also adjustable. Although I will admit I just bought him a Jeffries JMX, which thankfully is also adjustable.
A woman in the barn had her horse fitted for Devoucoux by one of their fitters/reps. The woman was a newby and didn’t realize until months later, just how much damage was being done to her horses back.
Unfortunately it took her several more saddle fitters, both independent and company reps, who were able to do right by her. Another boarder also had a bad experience…it seems to me that just about anyone calls themselves a saddle fitter anymore and there are a lot of quacks out there…even ones who come highly recommended. 
As they are foam flocked, I did not find they really could be “fitted” to a horse all that well. I had a new one on trial years ago and the fitter did not seem knowledgeable, was pushy, and I ended up sending the saddle back and opted for the County Conquest which I loved! Plus, it was actually really “fitted” to my horse, and was able to reflocked as he got more fit. I will add that I’ve never been a fan of foam, so I am a bit biased.
[QUOTE=eventer_mi;8420589]
Sold the Chiberta and haven’t regretted it, except occasionally I’ll see a Chiberta on a horse and want to go over and pet it…[/QUOTE]
:yes::lol:
I had (notice HAD) a custom fit by then premier Devoucoux fitter Chiberta that nearly crippled my horse and made him a maniac…thinking fitter could do no wrong and fearing kissing spine had complete radiographs of his spine that showed only changes where stirrup bars sat - immediately changed saddles and lunacy left.
I would check out Tad Coffin’s or Stackhouse if I were. I’ve heard too many horror stories about Devoucoux
I love love love my Chiberta- and my horses love it too. I wish I hadn’t spent so many years riding in other saddles…I bought mine used. A dear friend rode in mine and couldn’t wait to buy one for herself. Her horse has never been happier and neither has she. Both TBs…
I made a COTH account solely so that I could respond to this thread, because I had a huge problem with this! I had a Chiberta, and it caused my Thoroughbred gelding horrible back pain, to the point where I and my vet decided to X-ray him for kissing spine. Prior to this I had the saddle reflocked with wool (mine was a slightly older model, a 2009 or 2010 I believe, and the foam that came out of it was hard as a rock and deteriorated. Supposedly the newer ones have a different type of foam that’s not supposed to do that, but headsup if you have an older one because you may want to get it looked at) and used a sheepskin half pad, and had it looked at by a saddle fitter.
After his spinal X-rays came back clear with lots of healthy space (which is great news for me because he raced for 7 years and I was not expecting them to look so good!) we figured out that the problem lies in the construction of the Chiberta- the billets are attached directly to the flap, unlike in a traditional dual flap saddle where they go up into the tree and can move. The Chiberta’s are fixed in place and because of this, the pressure went up through the billets across his spine and created a pressure point on two of his vertebrae. Those were the ones that palpated as sore and were directly under that line of the billets up over his back.
Will this happen to every horse? Probably not, and it didn’t fit him perfectly so that didn’t help the pressure distribute evenly. But pay attention to the vertebrae directly in that line of the billets and see if they come up sore.
For what it’s worth, I LOVED this saddle. It was so comfortable and I felt secure in it. I was extremely sad to part with it, but it had to go. I’m still looking for a new saddle to replace it- any suggestions are welcome! Right now I’m leaning towards a dual flap CWD. I may try another monoflap, one that has the billets go up into the tree (like CWD’s) but I’m hesitant about even that.
[QUOTE=laurendrew;8443323]
For what it’s worth, I LOVED this saddle. It was so comfortable and I felt secure in it. I was extremely sad to part with it, but it had to go. I’m still looking for a new saddle to replace it- any suggestions are welcome! Right now I’m leaning towards a dual flap CWD. I may try another monoflap, one that has the billets go up into the tree (like CWD’s) but I’m hesitant about even that.[/QUOTE]
If you want to look at another monoflap, I can very happily recommend the saddle that I use on my TB:
http://passiersaddle.com/saettel/neusaettel/vielseitigkeitssaettel/military-II.php
Another COTHer wisely pointed me in this direction and I bless her every day for it! Passiers are relatively adjustable - wool flocked, and tree width can be adjusted by a fitter. It is not the same kind of buttery soft dreamy beautiful leather as the devoucoux, but it’s good quality and if the other Passiers I’ve known are any indication - it will last FOREVER. Not sofa-soft in the seat, but comfy and secure.
[QUOTE=laurendrew;8443323]
Right now I’m leaning towards a dual flap CWD. I may try another monoflap, one that has the billets go up into the tree (like CWD’s) but I’m hesitant about even that.[/QUOTE]
Love my Stackhouse…and the billets go up into the tree and move like you want them too. Plus it is a beautiful saddle with fantastic balance.
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