Diann Langer’s abuse article

[aohunter0629]

And to be completely honest, I don’t really care about what anyone makes in life (more power to them), but when it seriously damages and affects the long term of helpless animals that is where the buck stops for me (no pun intended). I have a serious problem with people that are willing to make 7 figures by abusing and mistreating animals. That’s criminal. Just like someone who embezzles to make 7 figures. Sorry. And that is what this thread needs to be about. Mistreatment and how we collectively can band together and try to put a stop to it.

[Djones]

You compete in one of the ficklest, most political, most expensive forms of horses in sport. Only reiners come close to the number of drug offenses, if I read that right earlier.

You’re IN IT. Oh, but the poor helpless animals!!! Sobs in hypocrisy.

[Djones]

@aohunter0629

I think a friend of mine said it best recently that has been in the industry for decades - she said “when trainers wanted to start living like their extremely wealthy clients with generational wealth is when it all went wrong.” I can’t say I disagree with her, I think at the end of the day there’s a fair living for a horse trainer and then there’s the reality of what the ones that are “top” BNT are making,

QFP.

[aohunter0629]

So you really believe that just because people in the sport “have money” they don’t care about their animals? I have news for you many don’t even realize what is happening with their animals in these “programs” and wouldn’t be ok with it for one second. Again, this is about abuse, why it happens doesn’t even really matter. Be the change for the horses. I quit supporting all of it when I was truly faced with the reality of how it destroyed my horses.

[Not_Your_Janice]

My trainer, who is definitely not at the top of their sport but is good, runs a pretty shabby program (compared to a true BNT, not a judgement) and still brings in a 6 figure income by doing very little. They’re pretty burned out on high level stuff and still make a VERY comfortable living running a facility and teaching lessons. They help clients sometimes with horse purchases or sales, but I can guarantee that is the smallest part of their income. The BNT in the HJ world (maddens, dignellis, clarks, etc.) are easily bringing in $500k per year through commissions etc. We are not the same lol.

[Djones]

@aohunter0629

No matter how much money you spend on horses, how much you try to reward, show appreciation for, or help, tip, thank etc the people around you, or how many horse shows you attend, spending hundreds of thousands of dollars a year on this as a hobby, it’s just simply “never enough”.

Yes, really.

If it’s about welfare, why were you, why are you, talking about wealth?

[aohunter0629]

I spoke about all of it. Horses being treated badly as well. It’s all because of greed.

@aohunter0629

The sport needs change and reform, but that takes people stepping back, truly looking around, and demanding it. Not being ok with poor treatment of people and horses and turning a blind eye for a ribbon or self admiration at the costs of the animals and others mental and physical well-being.

@aohunter0629

And I find it extremely sad, but I also know I’m surely not alone in this. So many top riders of the past that I’m still friends with (people who truly can ride circles around most amateurs or juniors we see today) feel the same, and they don’t really miss the showing at all! Instead they’ve made their life about saving some of the great horses that have done so much for so many people and riders. My hope is that in time there will be change, change for horses to be treated better, for a level playing field without undetectable drugging of the hunters, without these animals seeing a lunge line for hours, for a reset to understand we are all just doing our very best, including the horses.

How much more did I need to say about “horse welfare”?

[Djones]

Please don’t PM me, @aohunter0629. Anything I have to say I’ll say here.

I suppose the owners like yourself who spend ‘hundreds of thousands of dollars a year’ on their hunters don’t ever flip through the USEF magazine they receive? The one that features big winners, medalists, Horse of the Year stuff, feel good articles, and the one that details pages and pages and pages of offenders names, their offence, and their punishment? Are they too busy patting themselves on the back?

Next up, I’ll be accused of being jealous.

[aohunter0629]

Ha! I don’t have time for this! Enjoy your day and life

[Djones]

@RooTheDay

So. Who are you, person on the Internet who “spend[s] hundreds of thousands of dollars a year on this as a hobby” (i.e. at least twice as much AFTER TAX as you’re suggesting trainers “should” make, so really probably closer to 4x as much) and is still unhappy, to feel qualified to declare this an “average type of job” and confidently pronounce what amount trainers “should” make? What value do you provide to the world that’s so much greater as to make it right for you to spend double their suggested total income on your expensive luxury sport pet hobby , especially considering that many good trainers chose this path in an attempt to facilitate their own competitive dreams?

@RooTheDay you are the best for putting this together far better than I could.

@aohunter0629, do you have time to address Roo?

[aohunter0629]

Already did. Have a good day.

[fivestrideline]

Well said.

Whatever my trainers, BOs, and their staff make, it ain’t enough. Especially not to put up with clients who think like this!

[smoofox]

@aohunter0629

Ha! I don’t have time for this! Enjoy your day and life

If only I, a mere barn scrubber and foaler and everything to the herd here, could be so dismissive and full of disdain… as someone who has repeatedly whined to us that they spend hundreds and hundreds of thousands on their horses. Just in case you(g) missed that repeated Very Important Message.

@Djones

@RooTheDay

So. Who are you, person on the Internet who “spend[s] hundreds of thousands of dollars a year on this as a hobby” (i.e. at least twice as much AFTER TAX as you’re suggesting trainers “should” make, so really probably closer to 4x as much) and is still unhappy, to feel qualified to declare this an “average type of job” and confidently pronounce what amount trainers “should” make? What value do you provide to the world that’s so much greater as to make it right for you to spend double their suggested total income on your expensive luxury sport pet hobby , especially considering that many good trainers chose this path in an attempt to facilitate their own competitive dreams?

@RooTheDay you are the best for putting this together far better than I could.

And far better than I could. Well said.

@Djones

@aohunter0629

No matter how much money you spend on horses, how much you try to reward, show appreciation for, or help, tip, thank etc the people around you, or how many horse shows you attend, spending hundreds of thousands of dollars a year on this as a hobby, it’s just simply “never enough”.

Yes, really.

If it’s about welfare, why were you, why are you, talking about wealth?

Because it seems that one must be judged by their spending ability… and that seems to take precedence for some? My experience with that was years ago when there was a Very Nice Farm near where I lived and worked then. Astounding property and custom facilities. I remember going to an open house there - and wandered around with my mouth hanging open. That place beat the hell out of the extremely fancy Arabian barns I had seen. Chromed out big rig & trailer with spectacular amenities that pulled into shows and left everyone speechless. Grooms and barn staff were paid quite well compared to the rest of us… but the turnover was constant. Red flags everywhere. It obviously was not the facilities or the horses that were an issue… or even the sons who rode at the top level. The Mom and her barn manager made life a living hell for anyone unlucky enough to get hired and work the usual backbreaking long hours. The Mom constantly bragged about how much she spent on this or that - and yet complained that she never seemed to get any respect. Finally even that barn manager could no longer handle it and walked away as soon as the horses got back from the biggest show of the year. That was many years, barns and disciplines ago - and I often wonder what happened to that facility… time to be a Google detective…

[kirbydog]

Thank you for that. It is incredibly offensive to me, as a very hard working trainer, known for her blunt honesty, that someone thinks that there should be cap or limit to what we make. Nobody’s damn business. Period…

[kirbydog]

[albytb]

Anyway, back on topic, there was a horse this past week at Ledges that signed up for 26 jump classes (one rider, divisions from 2’6 to 3’3 and also puddle jumpers for some reason) and completed 24 of them before management stepped in. There was a couple other horses in the 20+ range. I just have to wonder what the heck some of these trainers are thinking and why show managers are allowing people to sign up for so many classes.

I mean, I KNOW what they’re thinking. But it still boggles the mind and I feel very sad for the horse.

[Not_Your_Janice]

because if you spend money, you are “included” and good enough. My guess is that the child spending 100’s of thousands each year is bankrolled by a trust or mom and dad and assumes the $$$ equals horsemanship and it. does. not. Tell me that you have 2 private grooms that you pay double…good for you, I guess? But why aren’t you taking care of your own horses instead of arguing with people on the internet?
ETA @smoofox this was not meant to be directed at you, just an add on to your comments to the ding dong who thinks they are smarter (and wealthier) than everyone else in this thread.

[aohunter0629]

I just was out taking care of my own horses and I honestly don’t have time to argue with people about something that has nothing to do with this topic or the concerns at hand. Just like in this country people want to be at odds apparently. Agree or disagree but name calling and assumptions is uncalled for. Between working full time for our business, normal life, and having a 15 acre farm to take care of I think the fact I have 2 grooms part time is not to be questioned and I don’t owe you an answer. I spend a tremendous amount of time with my horses, more than most of you that “board”.

[aohunter0629]

I do not think I’m smarter or wealthier AT ALL. I’m sure there’s many more with higher qualifications in life and there’s always people with more money! That’s life, hunny.

[Not_Your_Janice]

and yet you can’t stop humble bragging in any way…
seriously, good for your and your horses that you can offer such exceptional care. You are fortunate.