Diann Langer’s abuse article

[oldernewbie]

I used to think I could tell which Arabians had been gingered. (See mention of rule upthread). I then happened to buy my CraigsList purebred who carries his tail so that it looks like he’s been gingered every day of his life, walking to the pasture, at a standstill, under saddle at shows, you name it. A humbling moment for me, guess I’m not as smart as I thought! Somewhat embarrassing too.

Just another case in point to support @kirbydog The only definitive way to know if a horse has any medications in it is to test it.

Typical tail carriage. Guess I need to say that he hasn’t been gingered for the record. But in the old days I would have said a tail carriage like this couldn’t have been natural. Joke is on me!

[Jackjoe1]

Is there a limit to how many classes you can enter? When I was in Chicago this summer there was one horse that did 24 classes and showed every day, Wednesday through Sunday.

[Rumorhasit93]

@trubandloki

Wouldn’t those people already be reading the rule book?

I mean…unless something pertains to something I want to do, I rarely look at the rule book. I don’t lunge my horse, and only give bute/banamine or robaxin…so, there isn’t a ton I need to know unless it has to do with class specs, usually.

I would honestly love a “welfare test” requirement along with safesport. I think that is a great idea!

[Rumorhasit93]

Unfortunately, no. Why? God only knows. (Oh, wait…money).

[Rumorhasit93]

@skydy

Remember a few years ago ('23?) seeing two horses eliminated by the judges at a fairly big show, for being off during the circle at the end of their round? That gave me hope that judges will act when they see lame horses.

They did it at sunshine series in ‘24 too. There is hope! The fact that the pro even took it in the class to begin with is a whole other conversation we could be having here.

[paw]

@endlessclimb

It might spark the conversation between the owner and the trainer though. “Under no circumstances is Pookie to be injected with anything or fed anything without my knowledge. Kapeesh?” Force the owners to get at least a titch more involved here.

Ah, you (the owner) might say that, but does the trainer honor that? And if the horse is winning and not obviously drugged, do you (owner) know?

Having BTDT, I am firmly in the camp of sitting the owners down, too - it sucks (to be me), but at least I pay attention and try to find an honest trainer…

[Aussie_2020]

@paw

find an honest trainer

And this isn’t hard. I’m pointing a finger at the owners that leave their horse(s) with a trainer that has been outed for abuse and/or has drug offenses. It may be more of an owner wanting a winning horse than it is for the owner to be naive about the abuse.

[TwiSedai]

@BrownDerby

Yes, the schooling shows have welcomed him with open hands the last few years.

I just found out one of the main little HJ barns in the area, the one our Pony Club is based out of no less, had Kocher (or are having him, not sure if it’s happened yet) out for a clinic. The main instructor at the place is a guy, so I kind of wonder if it’s some “good ole boys” club type thing, but I’m just appalled.

[aohunter0629]

So I agree it’s on the owner to pick the “right” trainer, but speaking as someone who had horses with a trainer they 100% trusted and felt they would do the right thing by my horses (which never to my knowledge have been busted for drugs/abuse), I’ve found out the very hard way after we had some family medical stuff with my husband one winter circuit (I was unable to be down in person for the majority of the circuit). I think as I’ve constantly said here and learned through the process of my own horses that have been damaged by drugs this person used, most of these drugs for whatever reason according to what I have been told ARE NOT TESTABLE with the current USEF drug screen test. Including ACTH, Oxytocin, Thiamine, the list goes on…so even if these horses are “tested” there’s not positive tests where there should be.

And just as a side note, I feel so guilty that I didn’t ask more questions or pay more attention in the barn at the shows.

[BrownDerby]

Very valid point. The term “designer drugs” was coined some decades back by a university environmental toxicology researcher who did much of his investigations at the race tracks. New drugs and combinations cropped up all the time. They’d be tried out on jockeys and then on horses. Fortunately testing is extremely exacting now and unknown substances of the smallest amounts show up in the panels.

[kirbydog]

My niche business is people who want to step up from the local circuits, and get their start at the A/AA shows. I cannot tell you how many times over the years I’ve had these clients tell me that their horse is sooo much better at horse shows than he is at home. Said horse is a whackadoo, lame, or both at home, perfect at the shows.
It’s one of the talks I have to have with that subset of clients. I can almost guarantee that the horse will be whacky at the shows I take it to. Or lame( in which case, the horse will not be showing, as we have to tackle the lameness issue)
These are not the big name trainers doing this, these are the uneducated, or uncaring small circuit trainers. Cheating is everywhere

[Aussie_2020]

I understand, one of the last trainers I ever used abused my horse. It took me two months to figure out something was wrong.

But my earlier comment was for the owners that know because their trainer has been busted. Like Andrew McConnon (I think I spelled his name wrong). Videos were posted of him abusing horses for years. Owners did not leave.

[nutmeg]

“Masking drugs” are also a thing. The origins can be wide-ranging. I remember one year in Europe they were passing around some amino-acid based concoction that had been developed for pig farmers to conceal how many growth hormones and/or steroids they were feeding the biggetjes (wee pigs).
Seems like they are always a tweaked molecule ahead of the testers.
While it deals with human athletes rather than horses I highly recommend the movie “Icarus” (2017) on Netflix for insight into that world.

[Ghazzu]

@aohunter0629

according to what I have been told ARE NOT TESTABLE with the current USEF drug screen test. Including ACTH, Oxytocin, Thiamine, the list goes on…so even if these horses are “tested” there’s not positive tests where there should be.

I’m curious as to where you got this information, as the testing folks are typically pretty close-mouthed about what they can/do test for.
Certainly the technology exists to measure levels of oxytocin, ACTH, and thiamine, though it is entirely possible they are not included as a matter of course.
I’m just surprised you would be informed of that.

[aohunter0629]

I understand and agree that’s so unconscionable. I just know there’s a lot like I was, wool pulled over my eyes

[aohunter0629]

Wasn’t from testers, was from a vet that treated one of my horses who had major internal damage. I of course started asking questions as to how this would’ve happened, and putting the pieces together.

[Ghazzu]

@aohunter0629

I understand and agree that’s so unconscionable. I just know there’s a lot like I was, wool pulled over my eyes

Don’t beat yourself up too badly.
I have a DVM friend who found out that her horse was being drugged without her knowledge.

[Ghazzu]

@aohunter0629

Wasn’t from testers, was from a vet that treated one of my horses who had major internal damage. I of course started asking questions as to how this would’ve happened, and putting the pieces together.

So it is speculative.
What sort of damage was it?

[aohunter0629]

There are certain symptoms that accompany the use of some or these drugs very clearly. And when you own multiple with the same test results and the vet has seen others out of the same program with the same, you don’t think they start putting it together?

[aohunter0629]

I understand but spending 100k to get the horse healthy, I now trust no one to be honest. It took over 7 months to just get her stomach, major organ function and intestines healthy again. And another 6 to get the 300 pounds she lost back on. On top of a magnitude of other health problems she had as a result. It’s impossible to not feel guilty because she continued to jump and do everything she could for said trainer.