And taking away safe disposal will NOT cut down on injectable drug use. Evidence: drug use in humans. The needles just end up improperly disposed and put others at risk - usually the folks taking out the trash, or people walking along the side of the road.
I’m more inclined to think overflowing sharps containers all over a show are not being emptied on a proper schedule vs assume abuse.
I totally agree taking away sharps containers wouldn’t change anything. My husband and I have been chatting a lot about this and one thing that has really personally bothered me is that this “drug use” is much more rampant I believe than many (even Diann) want to acknowledge. He was mentioning how if properly investigated he thinks it would be very similar to Lance Armstrong’s doping downfall. “Everyone was doing it”. Lance also had been tested without positives as were all the others. But cycling HAS figured out a way to properly test now somehow for very similar type drugs. For instance, I know of a junior who just wrote an essay for school about it, as she’s someone who has been a working student for many BNT’s and has actually had to a) give shots of these substances and b) be posted as a “lookout”.
One thing that hasn’t really been mentioned here is what the cause of the cheating and drug use is for. Personally I don’t think it’s really about winning $1.50 ribbon, rather it’s a side effect of greed and money. As my husband said “This is a sport that should have respect and love for the animals who work so hard for their owners but instead has become a monster where broken horses (mentally and physically) are the casualties of padding the pockets of those who run it.”
I switched to paste banamine because it’s much easier to direct a non horse person how to give it in an emergency if I’m say out of town. The convenience beats the cost savings.
I agree, drug use is going to happen anyway. Not having disposal boxes in areas known for human drug use doesn’t send any more of a “message” than the standard “drugs are bad.” People have gotten the message and are ignoring it.
I still draw people back to the Selevit thread, in which people actively argued that regular use of (legal) injectables was GOOD horsemanship and routine.
I have paste banamine in my
Home barn for my groom who does not give IV shots for emergencies. But horse shows aren’t emergencies so I take my banamine and give it IV.
I am probably one of those people who advocates for some injections being good horsemanship. I will die on this hill. If your horse is locked in a box and not out moving around as much as when they are in their regular routine and you are asking them to work harder than an average ride at home, it is kind to give them some anti inflammatory help. I do the same for myself. Doesn’t mean you are making a lame horse sound. You are making your hard working partner comfortable so they can sleep well. And inflammation is not good and that’s what damages joints etc. I know people who proudly say their horse gets nothing. And guess what. Day two the horse is angry and doesn’t perform well because it’s sore. Your horse can be fit as all get out and still feel
Sore under horse show conditions. Walking around in the paddock does so much you can’t simulate at a show.
Didn’t we just get finished talking about all the risks of IV injections, and now we are talking about doing it for routine things, when there’s alternatives available.
I don’t recall ever giving myself injectable ibuprofen, even when I’ve worked super hard that day. Nor would I entertain my DH doing it on my behalf. I don’t think anyone in the dog performance world is injecting painkillers either, but I’m sure it’s happened a time or two.
Just… bizarre.
EDIT: Note that I’m not talking about the use of painkillers themselves (but every time this comes up, it becomes abundantly clear why we have an ulcer epidemic in horses, yikes). Whether you are a vet or not a vet, a minor or an adult, every IV injection comes with risk. Yet, when there are oral pastes available, or the ability to give the injectable orally, we’re still just putting it right into the blood stream. Weird.
I don’t disagree on making your partner “comfortable” and let me be clear, I’m not talking about therapeutic use of banamine, bute, robaxin, or even the use of a little dex. I’m talking about all of the substances on this list which the veterinary board is asking usef to make prohibited on show grounds, but should also be being factored into testing…
Side note: I do think that can be accomplished orally just as well without constantly giving shots.
One more thought - just because something has become normalized, does not make it normal. Owners administering IV injections for routine maintenance - that should never have been normalized, it is not normal. If this is a large part of what the sharps boxes are for, then give it orally. There is zero “need” for this.
100%. I don’t see any reason why horses need any of that. It’s horrifying. Isn’t ACTH what we test for cushings? I mean that has to be damaging their health. And adenosine? Years ago, Someone told me to give it to my horse that gets nervous. I looked it up, and it’s used for tachycardia. NO THANK YOU.
I love my horses and want to keep them healthy for a long time.
ACTH is widely used right now by many of the culprits and for sure it causes Cushings like symptoms and breakdown of the tendons. As someone mentioned in this thread, it’s been used for years in concoction with dex. It’s very, very sad.
So owners shouldn’t be able to give their horse’s legend or polyglycan for maintenance? That shouldn’t be normal? They should pay vets to do that? So a vet bill every month? The reality is most owners’ TRAINERS are the shot administrators and to me that is the issue. Owners don’t know. Better an owner do it than a trainer assuming they have the skill. Then they know what their horse is getting.
I find this to be abhorrent if not borderline criminal.
I don’t think a monthly bill for a vet to give it is out of the question when the owner is paying a bazillion other dollars for what they want to do (the shows themselves).
When it’s becoming clear that those sharps containers aren’t just full of legal things, maybe the vets need to be the ones retaining control of the sharps. No IV injections on site, without being administered by a vet.
If that’s pearl clutching to some, I truly suggest we need to step back and reanalyze what we are doing here. What other animal show has rules about sharps containers (let alone complaints about them overflowing)? This has gotten absolutely out of control.
Absolutely agree.
Did anybody say qualified adult owners should absolutely be forbidden from giving their own horses injections of legit substances obtained from legit vets for legit reasons?
Seems to me we are drifting/derailing into two discussions. A very black and white discussion of abuse including drugs and a secondary discussion of the somewhat grey area of therapeutic/maintenance substances. Why give them and who should administer them.
I believe the racing industry forbids syringes in the barns except for vets? Maybe we look into that in some form? Not a solution but it might help reduce misuse.
I never said that. But, given the problem we are facing, it might be a good idea to throw the whole idea out. Suzie can still give her horse banamine, she just has to do it orally. Wanda can still arrange for her legend injections, she just needs to call her vet if it must be given at the show.
If her vet happens to provide service in the area where the show is happening.
So the oral banamine would have to be paste, because using the injectable orally still requires a needle to get it out of the bottle.
Or she could use the local vet or the show vet, or arrange for it to be given a week early or a week late.
The banamine could be pre-drawn at home.
We do not need to have needles at our disposal when we’re playing jumpy-jump with our luxury sport pets.
Well…maybe. Thats one reason to throw the no syringes idea out there for discussion.
Maybe somebody can start another thread about following the track in banning syringes…I gotta go.
I think it would be interesting if somebody got a grant to look at what drug residues are in the syringes in the sharps containers.
Now this would be a study! I’m a little surprised it hasn’t been done.
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