Did a horse die at Clinton Anderson's ranch?

[Alagirl]

[QUOTE=twadwis;6907782]
Quote Originally Posted by Plainandtall View Post
So apparently a horse did die at Clinton’s place.

I know of another horse that ‘died’ as the result of training at CA’s.

The story was the gelding is “not going to be safe as a riding horse for the owner”…they could ride it at the center but it was unpredictable.

This horse was already started by the owner but quick and spooky (disclosed to CA) thus was sent off for the training.
The horse spent the first month with a CA ‘associate’ who couldn’t get him bridled and then got him so cinch sore he was laid up for another month.
Then another month goes by and Clinton still isn’t working the horse himself but promises to get him going.
Now three months are past and the horse is not ready, horse is not safe and CA doesn’t want her to take the horse home …suggests putting it down…the bill is now past $3000 and he finally offers to pay for euthanasia. No refunds, no replacement and not much of I’m sorry.
The owner raised this horse, handled it herself, it was not aggressive, just reactive. I own it’s sire who is same way, cannot be forced or pushed or you will have a major fight, yet he is now 16 years old and I (at 71) am driving him after years under saddle.
The original poster may be goofy but much of her story is probably accurate.
If I sent a horse out for training and found that it was hobbled and left unattended I would be livid. An older experienced ranch horse sure but at a high dollar facility you hobble a Frisian and walk away, bad idea.[/QUOTE]

Does not mean the horse had not a screw lose.

But usually - as in the original saga - when things don’t add up, there is usually a reason for it that is not explained by logic.

[goneriding24]

[QUOTE=Plainandtall;6907519]
http://www.downunderhorsemanship.com/Blog/post/2013/03/28/Statement-from-Clinton-regarding-Academy-Horse-incident.aspx

So apparently a horse did die at Clinton’s place. Now he seems pretty mad. I don’t blame him for being ticked.[/QUOTE]

Well, yay for CA. Folks, this is the type of person I like and try to be like. He’s cranky about this and from what I’ve read, with good reason. If he’s done all he said, no doubt he hasn’t on my end, then that’s all there is to it.

ETA: I’ve read more responses and while he does seem brusque, in the long run, the next time a horse dies, this brush fire won’t be started. I think he went above and beyond in trying to fix the situ for the wacky owner. If and when the next horse dies, the owner will be compensated somehow, however they decide, and it probably won’t make the net in such a spectacular way. Because you know he’s going to be on it, defending himself. Now, I’m thinking the Fresian owner is going ‘Oh, cr*p, the jig is up’.

Sort of short, sweet and to the point.

[leilatigress]

Way to go Clint! Sorry but I think the letter is perfect and truly fits his personality. If he didn’t actually word that letter verbatim then I would be surprised. As for the magical horse and his mystery death? Stuff happens and while I do sympathize with the owner it’s her prerogative to get or not get a necropsy. I would have gotten one especially under odd circumstances like that on someone’s property. But again that is me. As for the offer of a Signature horse, I get why the lady would think 14.1 is short for her when you are used to riding or seeing a 16.1 horse in the field. I again would have taken the signature horse but I get a bit woozy on anything taller than 15hh. (I ride ponies) I’d crack a joke about not being tall enough to see over the grass but her property seems to lack any as well.

[goneriding24]

[QUOTE=Appsolute;6907575]
Well, not that CA would ever see a red cent from me anyway (I don’t need horse training by DVD thanks) - this really clinches it.

What a calm a cool professional :rolleyes:

I assume he keeps better control of his emotions, and stays composed when working with a frustrating animal…

TOTALLY - That IS your customer base CA.[/QUOTE]

Not that I’ve ever met or been around CA, no need to, but I can say, I’m not a big fan of people either, but, with a horse who is either confused or scared or not comprehending or maybe a complete stonehead, I have a lot of patience. I’m not a big wig who has to cater to the public, thankfully, but I can understand how his mind works in this matter.

[wcporter]

[QUOTE=MoonoverMississippi;6907247]
Looking back through her posts, she stated (before sending her horse to CA) that her vet warned her the training program was so tough her horse may come back hairless…WTF?[/QUOTE]

OMG I just laughed OUT LOUD in my very quiet office when I read this.

Holy crap :lol:

[BansheeBreeze]

She deleted all her posts, except for this one

“Dear All,
Clinton called and asked me to please stop mourning for my horse on facebook. And I will honor his wishes. 10,000 nosey noodles contacted him.
No more shares or comments please. Thank you.”

Yes, I’m sure he was mad that you were mourning your horse. I’m sure those were his words exactly.

[mvp]

[QUOTE=goneriding24;6907828]
Not that I’ve ever met or been around CA, no need to, but I can say, I’m not a big fan of people either, but, with a horse who is either confused or scared or not comprehending or maybe a complete stonehead, I have a lot of patience. I’m not a big wig who has to cater to the public, thankfully, but I can understand how his mind works in this matter.[/QUOTE]

I know you like cranky, but don’t you think he’s sh!tting on the type of person that has made his career?

Crank away toward nasty people who have never done you a good turn… but CA’s relationship to this kind of HO isn’t that. He hasn’t earned the right to get publicly pissy at this kind of owner yet.

[TBRedHead]

[QUOTE=letmeride;6907542]
And now that I think about it, why would he even ask her if she wanted an autospy if he had something to hide? I’d think he wouldnt even want to bring the subject up.[/QUOTE]

It’s professional to do so. If I sent my perfectly healthy gelding, who in 7 years hasn’t colicked and had only one true vet bill (emergency, I gave him a shot and 2 hours later he wouldn’t bear weight on that leg, I was a sobbing mess lol), and he died all of a sudden? I’d want to know. Even if it WAS just an aneurysm.

Btw I work in the pet industry selling animals, if an animal dies out of the blue and it had been healthy with us for X amount of months, we do necropsies. Sometimes there was something underlying that the owner exasperated, and sometimes it was just the animal.

[goneriding24]

[QUOTE=BansheeBreeze;6907839]
She deleted all her posts, except for this one

“Dear All,
Clinton called and asked me to please stop mourning for my horse on facebook. And I will honor his wishes. 10,000 nosey noodles contacted him.
No more shares or comments please. Thank you.”

Yes, I’m sure he was mad that you were mourning your horse. I’m sure those were his words exactly.[/QUOTE]

Hunh…wonder what he ACTUALLY said that got her attention and action so very quickly. HA!!

[Plainandtall]

The thought of the Big name himself at his home or office computer scrolling through the fairy pictures…

oh the humanity.

[goneriding24]

[QUOTE=mvp;6907847]
I know you like cranky, but don’t you think he’s sh!tting on the type of person that has made his career?

Crank away toward nasty people who have never done you a good turn… but CA’s relationship to this kind of HO isn’t that. He hasn’t earned the right to get publicly pissy at this kind of owner yet.[/QUOTE]

You’re right. I didn’t get all my thought down right. I don’t have to put up with dipsticks, one reason I am a big rig driver, don’t have to deal with whackos, can drive away quickly. He’s made a living off of them but it’s common knowledge he’s a bit prickly. At least in some of the vids I’ve seen. Cut and dried. He could have toned it down but after reading loony ladies posts (not on FB, the ones on here), she would test Job’s patience too. But, she sure did back down once CA called her, no??

ETA: Another thing (I have a lot of them today), she started this whole shebang and now is calling people ‘nosey noodles’?? Sheesh.

[BansheeBreeze]

interesting except from the CA site about the “Academy” program. The price is $4,714 to have a student work with your horse.

"While we ask that you don’t work with your horse prior to training, to best ensure he leaves the ranch in good weight, we encourage you to generously feed him before dropping him off at the ranch. Due to the program’s intensity, it is best if the horse is fleshy and a little fat coming into the program.

Throughout his training, you’ll be kept up to date on your horse’s progress through the Fundamentals every two weeks by the Academy student training your horse. You’ll receive your first phone call two weeks after the horse has been in training, and then four weeks into the horse’s training you’ll receive another phone call. During this call, the Academy student will indicate whether the horse will be ready to complete the course in 6 weeks or whether he may need additional time to get to the desired level of performance. If additional training is required, you won’t be billed for the training, but you will be responsible for the extended board ($17/day).

Can I visit my horse during the 6-week course?
No, personal visits to the ranch are not permitted. Academy students are responsible for training several horses each and are committed to training each horse to the best of his ability and are very focused on achieving this goal. Allowing owners to randomly visit their horses would consume large amounts of the Academy students’ valuable time. You will be kept up to date on your horse’s progress through telephone calls scheduled with the student training your horse.

When colts are started at the ranch, seven out of ten of them on average will develop girth gall."

I had a friend go through the Academy program. You have to quality for it somehow, but you are literally only there for the duration of the Academy, same as the horse. These aren’t people who have been studying under CA for long periods of time, they can be backyard yahoos who somehow get into the program and then you’re paying all that money for them to learn how to train horses, under OTHER CA assistants. I don’t believe my friend ever even saw CA the whole time she was there. She brought her own horse, a very obese, out of work mare who lost a TON of weight (although she needed it) after the program. I was shocked how much she lost.

I hated going on trail rides with her because she and her CA devotee friend spent the entire time spinning their horses in circles. We spent most of our time standing around waiting for them. About the only thing her horses were trained to do was stand still while she cracked a bullwhip.

[wcporter]

I think CA, EM, and the owner of Justriding.com need to all sign up for a PR class.

[letmeride]

[QUOTE=TBRedHead;6907856]
It’s professional to do so. If I sent my perfectly healthy gelding, who in 7 years hasn’t cover and had one true vet bill (emergency, I gave him a shot and 2 hours later he wouldn’t beat wait on that leg, I was a sobbing mess lol), and he died all of a sudden? I’d want to know. Even if it WAS just an aneurysm.

Btw I work in the pet industry selling animals, if an animal dies out of the blue and it had been healthy with us for X amoun of months, we do necropsies. Sometimes there was something underlying that the owner exasperated, and sometimes it was just the animal.[/QUOTE]

I totally agree that it’s the professional thing to do, my point was it he was truly trying to deceive and lie about the situation then he probably wouldn’t are about bein professional either. I myself would no doubt ask for a necropsy to see what happened, I don’t think I could sleep at night otherwise. Like I said, I just meant it wouldn’t make sense that he’d ask that if he was hiding something, cause he wouldn’t want to run that risk of getting caught.

All in all, it’s sad to hear and see just how far this has gone. If she would have just used the money she got in return or better yet, ask him to pay for it, there would be a real answer. If indeed it had been a neglect issue, damn straight I’d be warning others and if it was natural causes then it could have happened in her pasture just as easily.

[goneriding24]

[QUOTE=BansheeBreeze;6907888]

When colts are started at the ranch, seven out of ten of them on average will develop girth gall."

What the h*ll?? That’s an awfully high percentage in my book. Maybe one in TWENTY or so, but 7 out of 10?? What?

I had a friend go through the Academy program. You have to quality for it somehow, but you are literally only there for the duration of the Academy, same as the horse. These aren’t people who have been studying under CA for long periods of time, they can be backyard yahoos who somehow get into the program and then you’re paying all that money for them to learn how to train horses, under OTHER CA assistants. I don’t believe my friend ever even saw CA the whole time she was there. She brought her own horse, a very obese, out of work mare who lost a TON of weight (although she needed it) after the program. I was shocked how much she lost.

A bit of weight lost is about normal in most horses, unless they are already in really good shape.

I hated going on trail rides with her because she and her CA devotee friend spent the entire time spinning their horses in circles. We spent most of our time standing around waiting for them. About the only thing her horses were trained to do was stand still while she cracked a bullwhip.[/QUOTE]

My shoer gripes about this of his NH devotees. He’s trying to trim or shoe, horse does something he doesn’t notice, then the owner ‘takes back’ the horse for a moment, stopping his work, while the horse is leadrope jiggled or backed all over the place. He said he likes doing my Sammy because Sammy does something ‘wrong’ (like nipping the shoer the other day, on his shoulder) and I clock him one and the shoer never drops the hoof. Heh…

[Gestalt]

I have no comment about the majikal moments the owner shared with all, but I have never had a trainer say “sometimes horses are injured or die” when discussing training at their facility. Why would they? As an adult I know anyone or anything can die unexpectedly.

[hundredacres]

Lady is a crazy loon, and CA is a narcissistic ass. They were made for each other and I’m glad they found one another. I hope the horse didn’t suffer, but feel no pity for CA for attracting a loon. It’s so tacky to be so angry about it and post like that on his website. I’ve always thought he was an idiot, and now it’s confirmed.

[Appsolute]

Oh hell no.

This is why I think “30 day” programs, colt starting clinics, and the rest of this big money, big industry, signature product, DVD packaged, “horsemanship” is a terrible idea.

Do you know how many LESSONS can be bought with $4,500?! A whole bunch – enough that you could learn the skills to train a horse yourself!

Riding a young, or green horse to the point it is galled is NOT okay – it is how ever a great way to teach a horse to associate the saddle with pain, and end up with one that is “girthy” for the rest of its life. Yes, green horses can get easily galled – it is yet another reason out of many to take it SLOW when starting a horse.

And not able to visit? Again OH HELL NO – way too many reasons to list for this.

The owners are suckers, it is too bad that they usually just have to pay with their pocket books, it’s the horses that have to suffer through this “boot camp”.

[jdeboer01]

[QUOTE=hundredacres;6907927]
Lady is a crazy loon, and CA is a narcissistic ass. They were made for each other and I’m glad they found one another. I hope the horse didn’t suffer, but feel no pity for CA for attracting a loon. It’s so tacky to be so angry about it and post like that on his website. I’ve always thought he was an idiot, and now it’s confirmed.[/QUOTE]

MOST of the people who would actually pay many thousands to send a horse to CA (or Parelli or Monty Roberts) are a bit on the loony side. I agree he’s an egomaniac, but his response is very typical of the way he talks about everything. He doesn’t sugar coat anything – to a fault.

The horse very, very likely died from an aortic rupture – sadly common on the Friesian breed. It’s quite sad she didn’t have a necropsy done because there are people in the Friesian world who would have paid for it. The Friesian people are trying to collect a database and develop DNA markers for the genetic issues in the breed. She could have helped. That sucks.

[BansheeBreeze]

[QUOTE=goneriding24;6907908]
My shoer gripes about this of his NH devotees. He’s trying to trim or shoe, horse does something he doesn’t notice, then the owner ‘takes back’ the horse for a moment, stopping his work, while the horse is leadrope jiggled or backed all over the place. He said he likes doing my Sammy because Sammy does something ‘wrong’ (like nipping the shoer the other day, on his shoulder) and I clock him one and the shoer never drops the hoof. Heh…[/QUOTE]

In response to the weight thing, the mare was VERY overweight going into it-thick cresty neck, huge hay belly(looked preggo), could hardly canter because she was so fat. She was rarely ridden and then it was light. I think she didn’t start doing anything with her until a couple week before the clinic. She came back with visible ribs, tucked up and exhausted looking, just dead eyes. I know horses are going to lose weight in a training program but for her to lose THAT much in such a short time is just crazy, I can’t imagine what she’d have looked like had she been in normal weight.