Different types of shoes for horses with possible navicular and other hoof issues

[walktrot]

My gelding is 27 now. Fortunately his feet have been pronounced “perfect” by the vet after a recent full set. All those years of good trimming and shoeing she said with the farrier standing beside her.

We have had the same farrier since I bought him 20 years ago. He came from Iowa with a pair of cheap keg shoes on the front. Toes were long, heels run down, and pastern angles require a 2-degree pad. It took some time finding the breakover. He was on steel Natural Balance and Natural Balance Light so his toes could be rolled.

A couple of years ago the farrier was at a clinic where the Avanti shoe was demonstrated. We tried it and it is amazing. He had little stumbly toe dragging things that disappeared with the first shoeing. It keeps the breakover where it belongs, no changes. It is the outside contour that has more lateral room so it is easier to pick the foot up. There is a very high ridge around the inside. It was fine as a winter shoe with borium studs. The farrier has switched other horses with similar results. She said the dressage crowd doesn’t care for it because it takes some of the flash out of their performance.

I have to give credit to the vet. Farrier wanted to consult with her before we changed his shoes. Hence the full set of x-rays. When I asked the vet if they could get together she asked for the farrier’s phone number. They set up the appointment. So much easier than trying to figure it out myself.

Avanti shoe

[quietann]

I think with my mare, that shoe would have the wrong balance. She does not need more rise on the insides as she already weights her foot very much to the outside. My farrier says this is the opposite of what most horses do. But, cool innovation and I’m glad it’s working for your horse.

[Atlas_Shrugged]

I have tried all the stuff out there after MRI showed navicular changes in my experienced AO 11 yr old gelding. Vet may do a chemical nerve block on his funky FL hoof - Anyone had experience with this?

[quietann]

Another update – will be switching to the vet/farrier for a couple of cycles as she wants to take the toes back more, but very carefully. She also wants to try steel rocker shoes, as the rolled toe on the mare’s current shoes hasn’t changed things much, and they are more complicated to put on right. It’s a very slight rocker. Epona shoes are still on the table, too.

I kind of feel like this is a last ditch effort to get the mare happy for trail riding. If it comes to retirement, I’ve found a small barn nearby that would board her. Not inexpensive, but about 60% of what I am paying now. And I am just. so. burned. out. on the horse thing that I’m not planning to try to get another horse for a while.

(Although there is a complicating factor , in that I ran out of the mare’s Vitamin E and it was back-ordered at the company that makes it. And of course didn’t think to just go get some softgels at the drugstore. She had mild EPM back in 2012 or 2013, and has been on 8000 IU of Vitamin E per day ever since then… and I’d noticed she would get more clumsy if she wasn’t getting it for some reason. So the return of the stumbling may well be due to that. She is getting the softgels now.)

[sportyspicepony]

My horse is seeing the vet this week for more diagnostics on her very slight, vague, sometimes moving around, but mostly bilateral front foot lameness. I’m almost 100% sure it’s her feet but also don’t want to get tunnel vision for her feet and miss something else altogether.

My question for you is, how often do you take front feet x-rays to track positive or negative progress? I have a set from October 2020 so I’m guessing I’ll need more now…?

Did you have any other images taken for diagnostic purposes/ to rule anything else out during the whole process? (Ultrasound, MRI?)

I know you mentioned nerve blocking and I definitely would want to go that route first but just want to get a sense of what I’m in for to get the correct diagnosis.

Thank you for all the info you’ve posted so far, and sorry to hear how burned out you are hopefully your awesome vet can help get her comfortable!!

[quietann]

Hi –

My mare has had front hoof Xrays approximately every 6 months since 2018, when she was lame in the LF. Her X-rays actually have looked remarkably good; in fact her palmar angles are better now than when we started (she had sharply positive palmar angles back then.)

She has had ultrasounds done once, with no particular findings. It is kind of odd; she is boarded in a very horsey area with plenty of $$$ floating around, but vets seem reluctant do do a lot of imaging. Of course I may just be spoiled from my vets before I moved her, who have excellent portable ultrasound machines, to the point that they will do SI injections in the field.

Anything requiring trailering out is not happening right now because she won’t get on the trailer unless forced. It is a backing off problem. She is very comfortable and happy in the trailer until it’s time to unload, and then she’s terrified. This is a problem I created, and I’m slowly working on un-creating it. I would trailer her in an emergency or urgent situation, but this is not that.

I have found nerve blocking to be incredibly helpful in diagnosing lameness. Of course there are things it won’t pick up, but watching her RF go from +3 lame at the trot to basically normal when her heel was blocked was quite enlightening. BTW the Osphos DID help; she is now +1 on the RF. But she is still not comfortable.

The lack of work means she has gained weight… not good for a horse who is borderline IR. Barn manager and I are trying to figure out how to cut back her hay without her getting ulcery. Small hole haynets are not a good option for her. She attacks them, they don’t slow her down, and she hurts her neck from all the yanking on them she does. I am almost wondering whether she has some low-level laminitis going on. Her X-rays are good, but…

[sportyspicepony]

Got it, okay thank you! It’s weird that her x-rays are good but she still needs so much correction… I guess based on everything you described conformation-wise it makes sense but it still just seems weird to me.

I know I’ve heard that MRI is the best way to diagnose navicular syndrome, but is there any other way besides X-ray to diagnose laminitis?

I think I have a good plan for my vet visit, a new set of x rays up front and possible nerve blocking from there if they’re not conclusive.

This stuff is so stressful but it helps to talk it out sometimes so thank you!!

[quietann]

Her hooves are actually pretty strong, except she can’t have really rich food or she will get “laminitic changes.” The legs above them are a mess, and her shoulders are not symmetrical. There is a lot of abnormal stress loading.

I’m not sure, but I think Xrays don’t detect laminitis unless it’s really bad, and by then the horse would have other symptoms. Founder is another matter entirely.

I hope you can get some answers for your guy - and do request nerve blocks if your vet doesn’t get a clear answer from the Xrays.

[J-Lu]

I hope all goes well for you, @quietann!

My friend and BO has been dealing with something similar to you for 1.5 years. Very short story, horse (QH) has been on and off lame in the front for 1.5 years (mostly off). Switched to my farrier, who has taken front feet from 0 to a 2 to create more angle in the wall. Horse seems sensitive with nails in the wall and feet were not allowed to grow out. Feet can have a serious flare that has been handled. The two farriers tried pads of various kinds, angled and fill-in pads, many approaches. Owner switched to my vet who said bring the toes back. Horse blocked to the feet. That, with more rocker shoes seemed to help. And then it didn’t.

More recently, our vet took 4 radiographs and is working with the farrier and another vet who is certified in podiatry. Most recently, Podiatrist recommended aluminum wedge heels because the coffin bone angle was a little off, putting tension on the DDFT and likely was contributing to the lameness. He had a conversation with the farrier (was supposed to be there but wasn’t). Farrier used the aluminum wedge heels but the horse is still lame. Podiatrist vet comes out tomorrow to evaluate the horse.

Owner is also considering all of the options, including MRI to really look at soft-tissue. On the one hand, I think that if the palmar angles aren’t corrected, there WILL be findings on MRI. On the other hand, if the angles are good maybe the MRI can pick up other findings. I’ve suggested going to NC state to get a MRI and workup. Owner has had suggestions of just pulling the shoes and turning the horse out for a year, but I think that’s potentially a recipe for bringing a problematic horse back to work only to have it be lame again. The horse hasn’t been ridden much in a couple of months and is lame in the pasture.

Radiographs can also diagnose navicular syndrome if read by a good radiologist. Occasionally, my vet (who graduated from NC state) sends her radiographs to a radiologist expert at NC State for a better diagnosis. Maybe you can also have your vet consult with an expert at your state vet hospital? It is my understanding that laminitis can be diagnosed by radiographs.

Ugghh, I’m so sorry to hear about this!!

[quietann]

Hi –

The vet-equine podiatrist took X-rays at the last appointment, including the “navicular bone views” which prior vets had not done. She did not see anything indicating navicular issues. As she is an equine podiatrist, I trust her judgment on that.

So … rocker shoes go on in a few hours. I am going to ask to get Epona sizing once she is trimmed but before shoes go on, because Eponas have been a candidate shoe.

Meanwhile, I’ve discovered that the mare has a lot more go on cooler days, although going down hills is still rough.

[quietann]

Appointment got postponed until tomorrow because of vet emergencies. This is provided that the remnants of Ida don’t flood us out…

I got the call when just starting what was supposed to be a 30 minute trail ride before the vet arrived, but extended it to 45 minutes and it was fun, but I’ll be happier when my mare is more comfortable.

[quietann]

So… it’s done. And now I know what a really thorough farrier visit looks like. It took 90 minutes, start to finish.

Her toes have been taken back on all 4 hooves** as much as V/F was comfortable with. V/F really squared them off too.

On the fronts my mare has steel rocker shoes – but the side facing her hoof is flat, so no special trimming required. They are basically shoes with a bevel that goes about a third of the way back, and have a bit of a curve to the underside. She also has double leather pads, which V/F prefers over rubber etc. On the rears, she has the shoes from the last cycle, which have a bit of a bevel but not as much as the fronts. All 4 shoes are hot-shod with a lot of reshaping to get them “just right” and using copper-coated nails.

Now if you have ever tried “rocker” athletic shoes after years of wearing standard ones, imagine how that felt at first, and that’s how it is for my mare. She is decidedly cautious about these new shoes. She has been landing toe-first for ages… and now she basically can’t. So this will take some getting used to. I plan to ride her in the cushy-footing indoor for a few days before taking her out.

** Rear hooves seem to not get a lot of attention from farriers. I have always wondered why. My mare had a crazy long toe on her RF and almost as much on the LF. I remember that a friend’s horse was having problems moving freely, until a new farrier trimmed back its toes.

[Pico_Banana]

@quietann I think I know the vet/farrier you are using and she’s terrific. Really thorough and tons of experience. She shod my mare once (filling in for someone else) and she has never moved better. She even had a cute toe flick.

I tried rocker shoes with my horse quite some time ago and she HATED them. They actually made her lame. (She was fine as soon as we took them off.) So just FYI that they aren’t a good fit for everyone and if you see things starting to go south, don’t think you’re crazy if you think it might be the shoes.

I don’t know much about navicular but I just started using Easy Boot’s flip flops on my mare. https://www.easycareinc.com/our_boots/easyboot-flip-flop.asp Seems like a lot of farriers have never heard of them so thought I would mention. They provide a flat surface so plenty of heel support. They are a hybrid between a shoe and a boot. Super easy to glue on and the glue only goes on the dorsal wall. With the open back they can stay on the entire shoeing cycle and still allow natural hoof expansion/contraction. I am a big fan so far. Am on second cycle only so time will tell.

[quietann]

Dr. Lordan is a treasure!

Flip-flips might not work for us; I mostly trail ride from May through November, and would worry about stuff getting stuck in them.

[J-Lu]

My friend had the DVM/Podiatrist out 2 days ago. He suggested rocker shoes and is calling the farrier to discuss. He thinks the horse should have the option to modulate his balance to make him comfy and the rider can ride in these shoes when the horse isn’t lame. Horse will go into them soon.

[jvanrens]

@quietann

Dr. Lordan is a treasure!

Flip-flips might not work for us; I mostly trail ride from May through November, and would worry about stuff getting stuck in them.

That would be my concern with them too. We’ve used flip flops a lot, but we have racehorses, so they’re usually on flat surfaces. I’d be concerned about them being easy to grab going downhill.

[quietann]

Update: My mare is basically retired but she’s doing great barefoot, of all things. Dr. L pulled her hind shoes about 2 months ago and her hooves have adapted really well. At the same time, Dr. L put her in glue-ons up front as a last-ditch effort, since I was unwilling to switch to more extreme rockers.

That didn’t really help, so 10 days ago Dr. L pulled her front shoes just to see how she would do. She did not do a lot of trimming other than shortening her toes, since getting the glue-ons off her hooves took enough hoof with it. The undersides of her front hooves look pretty funky – there is a LOT of sole – but she’s wearing them down gradually. She was a bit ouchy at first (the ground was frozen) but she really does have tough little hooves. I rode her yesterday outside the barn – mostly on blacktop and packed stone dust – and she felt good. She actually seems worse on the cushy indoor footing.

If she was still sound enough to really be worked, I’d be looking into getting her boots as our trails have a lot of loose rocks and roots – which is why she went into shoes in the first place. I did a couple of short trail rides when just her back hooves were barefoot, with no issues.

I have been using Keratex on her hooves, but I am not sure she really needs it. Photo is of a back hoof 6 weeks after shoes were pulled. I am keeping an eye on the white lines but so far the black parts are superficial; it’s dirty out there!

[J-Lu]

@J-Lu

I hope all goes well for you, @quietann!

My friend and BO has been dealing with something similar to you for 1.5 years. Very short story, horse (QH) has been on and off lame in the front for 1.5 years (mostly off). Switched to my farrier, who has taken front feet from 0 to a 2 to create more angle in the wall. Horse seems sensitive with nails in the wall and feet were not allowed to grow out. Feet can have a serious flare that has been handled. The two farriers tried pads of various kinds, angled and fill-in pads, many approaches. Owner switched to my vet who said bring the toes back. Horse blocked to the feet. That, with more rocker shoes seemed to help. And then it didn’t.

More recently, our vet took 4 radiographs and is working with the farrier and another vet who is certified in podiatry. Most recently, Podiatrist recommended aluminum wedge heels because the coffin bone angle was a little off, putting tension on the DDFT and likely was contributing to the lameness. He had a conversation with the farrier (was supposed to be there but wasn’t). Farrier used the aluminum wedge heels but the horse is still lame. Podiatrist vet comes out tomorrow to evaluate the horse.

Owner is also considering all of the options, including MRI to really look at soft-tissue. On the one hand, I think that if the palmar angles aren’t corrected, there WILL be findings on MRI. On the other hand, if the angles are good maybe the MRI can pick up other findings. I’ve suggested going to NC state to get a MRI and workup. Owner has had suggestions of just pulling the shoes and turning the horse out for a year, but I think that’s potentially a recipe for bringing a problematic horse back to work only to have it be lame again. The horse hasn’t been ridden much in a couple of months and is lame in the pasture.

Radiographs can also diagnose navicular syndrome if read by a good radiologist. Occasionally, my vet (who graduated from NC state) sends her radiographs to a radiologist expert at NC State for a better diagnosis. Maybe you can also have your vet consult with an expert at your state vet hospital? It is my understanding that laminitis can be diagnosed by radiographs.

Ugghh, I’m so sorry to hear about this!!

Update of the horse above!

My vet came out with an traveling DVM ultrasonographer. She has an ultrasound that can go deeper than most ultrasounds but obviously has limits. They ended up finding (OK, this is from the owner who doesn’t know alot about physiology) small “lumps” in the navicular bursa area, (don’t quote me on this) indicating an old injury that never healed well. No obvious current tears. This makes sense because the owner kept this horse turned out in their small herd on substantial acreage thinking “turnout will heal the horse”. It really didn’t.

Horse is now in his own 1 acre pasture and shares a run-in with my horse and his 1+ acre pasture. They share a fenceline and are “buds”. Owner asked if they could open the gate between the pastures but I reminded them that my horse runs alot and is very food dominant and it wouldn’t be a good idea. They agreed.

Horse is in mild rocker shoes and is on Previcox. Toes really pulled back, thanks to the podiatrist and my vet. He’s no longer lame. Owner is cleared to do mild walk, trot and canter in LARGE figures or straight lines by my vet. Owner has been doing that and walks around their large equestrian neighborhood and horse seems very comfortable. Podiatrist wanted to give him an additional year off but my vet and ultrasonagrapher saw no reason not to put him back into very mild work.

THANK GOD owner didn’t just pull shoes and turn the horse out in the herd.

And THANK GOD just pulling the shoes worked so well for your horse! That’s such a sigh of relief! My fingers are crossed that she continues to improve and it’s great to hear she’s in such great hands!!! PLEASE continue to update us on her improvement!

[quietann]

More update: the hind hooves look great after 3 months with no shoes. I’m not sure about the fronts, after 4 weeks. BUT she is much more comfortable barefoot than shod. Barefoot does keep her toes from getting so long, but the fronts seem to be flaring a bit, and one has a chunk out of it… not bothering her at all but still.

Photos were sent to her farrier today, and we’ll make an appointment for next week or the week after. Keep in mind the ground is frozen solid and there’s still ice spots everywhere.

Straight on view of fronts (yes she wears unevenly as she’s quite pigeon toed)

Left front sole, with missing chunk from the wall:

Rears look great:

EXCEPT what’s that diagonal line in the back about?

[wildlifer]

If you are looking for other options for fronts in future, the Equiflex (google) polyurethane shoes have made a huge difference for mine. He had a low ddft injury that also damaged navicular bone, so he can’t deal with concussion from metal shoes. He’s basically retired except the occasional trail ride.

You can nail or glue them. Well designed with good research data on concussion reduction. Come in multiple shapes (my guy does best with a natural balance shape). Made in Germany, there is a US distributor.

He wore them for a couple years, then we were able to go barefoot for a couple years, now we are back to them again (we also use the heart bar bridges you will see on the site). I routinely get 3 cycles out of a pair, they have great traction. We get great heel expansion & bc they are lighter & flexible, in 3+ years, only had one come off. And much cheaper than polyflex.