It appears my 25 yo cushings mare has foundered. She is very uncomfortable. We are supposed to do x-rays tonight but I find myself wondering if even doing that is cruel. She is eating hay just fine and vocally demands dinner (a minimal vitamin supplement). Don’t know what the reason for this post is really. I guess I’m just looking for your experiences. By the way, as of October it will (would have been?) our 21st anniversary.
Do the X rays. They will tell you a lot.
I lost one to founder in January. He foundered once before mildly, and after the first couple of weeks was very happy again, even mostly sound. Minimal rotation (3 degrees in one foot). He lasted almost 2 more years before he foundered again for no apparent reason. That time the Xrays showed a much different story and I let him go before he got too bad. The road back, even if we got the progression stopped which didn’t seem to be happening, was going to be a long and painful one and I elected not to put him through that at 23.
You really need to see the films – you will feel much better about your decision even if you do decide to put her down. Really a side view on each side will probably tell you what you need to know, which is a matter of lifting the foot and putting it down on the block for just a minute. Not something I would hesitate to do.
I have zero regrets about the decision I made but I would probably have second-guessed it if I hadn’t seen how bad it was in there. Worth it for the peace of mind. So sorry about your mare…founder is terrible.
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Good points! Thanks!
so sorry you are dealing with this. definitely second the x-rays, it will show you whether it is recoverable or not and IMHO, worse case scenario i think it helps the brain process and will prevent you from second guessing your decision… either way, hugs to you and your mare going forward.
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My mare at 17:
- [TABLE="cellpadding: 0, cellspacing: 0"] [TR] [TD]Bri (Silken Dreams) by Falke in a lesson on Sunday. Bri is 17 yo but we have been without lessons for a long time: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2u4bAgXSgw [/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE]
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Went through the exact same scenario with one of the horses in my barn. Though he still looked good we knew he was uncomfortable. His life was being stuck in a dirt paddock without companions and there was no hope of recovery so we let him go.
Is she being medicated for the Cushings? I find that my Cushings pony will have small laminitic “flares” from time to time, and sometimes it’s not clear why. I increased his Prascend dosage even though his ACTH numbers were still in the normal range and it helped a lot with the laminitic flares.
Personally, I think they start responding to the lack of daylight about this time of year; their brains can tell that the days are getting shorter.
I wouldn’t give up hope for recovery just yet, although I understand that since there is no real “cure” it’s just a matter of time before you have to make a decision.
Do you have her on bute or equioxx for pain/inflammation management?
are you icing her feet?
is she on super soft ground? If not, make sure her stall is well bedded.
Does she have shoes? Or barefoot? Call your farrier NOW and make him/her aware of the situation. The farrier can work with the vet to make the horse more comfortable. When we’ve had horses founder the farrier has oftentimes wanted to speak with the vet.
Are you managing the cushings with prascend?
founder doesn’t have to be the end-
we’ve had had horses founder and it’s gone both ways. I also have a friend who had one and by keeping the horse on very soft ground and feet in ice she managed to save one that literally couldn’t move. 12 years later the mare is 30 and galloping in the turnout everyday.
The second we suspect it could be laminitis we get the feet in ice and make sure the entire stall is deeply bedded. Talk to your vet this am about anti inflammatory treatment prior to their arrival. Plus, call your farrier.
I wish you the best of luck!
To answer questions, she has been on prescend for 4 years, she is on deep bedding in a stall. Currently barefoot - farrier has been notified. Been cold hosing. I tried putting her foot in a bucket and she knocked me flat. 
She is on bute. I don’t think this mare would be happy dry lotted and would likely tell me so. Thanks everyone!
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When was the last time she had her ACTH checked? Maybe worth checking for a possible dosage adjustment.
FWIW, my can’t really tolerate grass well at all. I have a large sacrifice pasture and when all my horses are on it he usually does fine because there is virtually nothing growing. But in summer when my big horses are on pasture it grows up a little bit more. Probably time to take him off for a while because it will be too much for him soon, if not already. He’s much more consistent on hay, because it is much more consistent than the pasture between temperature changes, rain, sun, etc.
There are other ways to Ice the feet… although the fact she was so disagreeable to icing isn’t a bad thing. I’ve found when they are in horrendous pain they can’t even move to fight you on the icing.
One way to do it is to get fluid bags from your local vet hospital and tie them at the Pastern. That’s how we’ve done it as per our vet.
Truly a difficult decision --and not sure sometimes that posting such questions on COTH gives one piece of mind --although there are some wonderful, insightful suggestions made here. The decision will be hard --but it is yours to make as only you have all the facts, and sadly, all the responsibility for the decision. When one of my horses was diagnosed by a veterinarian and a second equine specialist with the same diagnosis and treatment plan (keeps him usable but at tremendous expense) --I lamented on CLOTH -now the fact was, I had tried everything within my budget. It seems that some who responded had endless funds and endless time and maybe even endless barn help. What some suggested was too expensive (for me) or too time consuming (for me) or made no sense given my situation. For example, it was suggested that I move my horse to a new facility --I own my own stable --in what universe would it make sense to relocate a horse to a different barn, drive daily to work with him, pay board, when I have all the same things in my backyard? In other words, there were limits to what I could do or would do to for this (elderly) horse. But some posters on COTH didn’t understand this and felt more $/time would turn back the clock and cure an incurable horse. Reading such posts made me feel sad --my fault for not having a thicker skin!
Listen to your heart and the veterinarian who knows your horse best. Some on the bb gave me useful links that showed me what the two vets were doing was the right course. Then it was up to me to decide if the $ was worth the short term usability it gave my (older) horse. I split the difference. Rather than continue to chase difficult remedies that might/might not work, I bought a younger horse, and use my chronically impaired horse as a back up --if I really need to use him, I medicate him with the expensive medications that allow him to be usable. Otherwise, I use my new horse. On the plus side, the new horse is much younger. On the downside, I still miss my old friend and wish everyday there WAS a cure –
Your decision will be the right one.
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Thanks everyone! The immediate issue is the founder. Testing and pasture management will be addressed once this decision is made. Horse is 25, cushings positive, and a photic headshaker. She is long retired and I have another horse I ride. For me the immediate questions are is it fair to put her through the treatments and what is the long-term prognosis for her preferred quality of life. Will discuss with my vet after x-rays. Thanks!
I don’t know that I would even do the x rays. One of mine had terrible x rays. Fortunately, we didn’t do the x rays immediately so he was looking good when we finally did them. He is sound and healthy now.
If you can keep the horse comfortable, I would continue on. If the horse is suffering terribly, it is time to quit. The problem is that sometimes they have good days and bad days. During the bad days, it is hard to keep going. On the good days, it is hard to imagine that the bad days can come.
@Holly Jeanne Is the horse laminitic or foundering? They are not the same thing.
www.thehorse.com/articles/31545/founder-vs-laminitis
As others have said laminitis flairs up, but sometimes can be brought under control quickly, sometimes it can’t.
I think you are wise to weigh how much quality life your horse will gain vs how traumatic or stressful any further treatment may be for her.
I hope an exam by the vet gives you the info you need to feel confident making a decision about which path to take with your mare.
Fingers crossed and jingling!
BT in 2015. DMSO via NG tube and having a vet who was versed do blood flow screening made all the difference in the world to my mare and bute! She spent 10 months stalled and had to wear half plate shoes to keep her from sinking. She had no rotation. She is sound and rideable now. Not sure though if I would have gone through it all if she was retired and had other issues. She was 20 at the time of founder and was still in work (very mild HSer as well). 22 now and doing well. If she founders again, not sure if I would go to such measures the second time. Hers was caused by dex and she was early PPID, now on prascend.
Good luck, I know a difficult decision is possibly ahead.
OP have you looked at Soft Ride boots? wwww.softrideboots.com/Saved-By-Soft-Ride.asp
Lots of vets, vet schools, and farriers reco them.
Interesting that I almost posted what my vet advised me with my Cushings pony - when the bad days outnumber the good, it’s time to let him go. And they actually suggested marking it on the calendar - B or G - because it’s hard to remember for sure…is it always bad? Is it mostly good?
I think with many of our ailing horses/ponies, it’s just a matter of time. My little guy is about 15 but when I got him at age 11-12, he looked 30 because he had never been treated (and probably suffered most of his life.) He will never be sound but at the moment his good days definitely outnumber the bad. I think it is important to keep track and not let them suffer.
But that is a lot of management, too. So it’s a balance of their quality of life AND your quality of life. It’s a tough line to walk.
I currently have 19 PPID horses living on lush grass pastures and we’ve never had issues, in fact we’ve even had a few previously foundered horses come to our farm and do fine. We’ve found the secret is moving. Our smallest pasture is 15 acres, our largest is 35, average size is 20-25 acres, and the horses go out in groups. This keeps them moving continually at mostly a walk, which keeps insulin levels under control. I can’t remember which one, but a University did a study and it concluded that grass worked for metabolic horses on large pastures in groups because of the movement. Small pastures/paddocks with grass are the worst turnout choice for a metabolic horse (even those in work), and if your turnout choices are that or a dry lot then dry lot is probably the best choice.
OP, I would probably do the x-rays just to see how things look inside. However, when I watched the video you linked she didn’t look very sound in it and that was a few years ago, I think? When you combine all of these soundness issues along with the head shaking, from afar it makes it seem like her quality of life might be very low, with a poor outlook for sustained improvement. She’s really lucky to have been with you for 21 years, so much stability in her life. So few horses have someone making decisions for them who have such a long history and so much basis for comparison. Whatever you decide is best for your girl, I wish you peace with your decision, there is often more than one “right” choice.
