Dirty Stopper

I will tell you a true story. Jumper that never refused, then started to refuse., every trainer in the world tried to get her to jump because it didn’t make sense why she was stopping., finally, after the owner got tried of seeing her hit, beat over a fence had some work up done on her. Turns out she had a hair line fracture on her from leg that showed up. The mare knew she shouldn’t be landing on that leg and decided to stop to protect herself and her rider. Animals know when they should not be doing something., its up to you to figure that out…, if she has been a good jumper in the past, there is something going on., physically, mentally or ?

It maybe time to retire her or work to repair the unknown…,

I had the same type of mare.

I had her for 8 years.
She was a dirty stopper for 6 of those years.

what helped?
I had her ovaries removed
She had a bad hock that finally started to be cooperative through vet intervention and some supplements–

For those last 2 years she jumped her heart out for me.

Maybe try some hormones?
I liked using Altrenogist. I used it on a dirty bucker. If she was on hormones I was good to go…if she was not on hormones I was on the ground looking up.

[QUOTE=HealingHeart;7496888]
I will tell you a true story. Jumper that never refused, then started to refuse., every trainer in the world tried to get her to jump because it didn’t make sense why she was stopping., finally, after the owner got tried of seeing her hit, beat over a fence had some work up done on her. Turns out she had a hair line fracture on her from leg that showed up. The mare knew she shouldn’t be landing on that leg and decided to stop to protect herself and her rider. Animals know when they should not be doing something., its up to you to figure that out…, if she has been a good jumper in the past, there is something going on., physically, mentally or ?

It maybe time to retire her or work to repair the unknown…,[/QUOTE]

This is what happened with Toby, our APHAwesomeness.
He was great at BN.
And would quit out at N in an odd way when the ground was a little hard. He’d leave the ground and stop mid way high centering us over the jump.

Or he would start to hyperventilate (I could hear it) mid course and then quit out at the next fence…

So I looked into his feet. Turns out his feet were trashed! He injured himself in pasture and needed an MRI. The MRI showed the acute injury but also showed his chronically trashed feet! Totally messed up navicular bursas and signs of laminitis in one foot and an old collateral ligament damage on the other.

I truly believe that dirty stoppers have pain…

You said she’s a dirty stopper, so I am going to assume you have checked her out physically, and this is an ongoing chronic and upredictable issue.

A dirty stopper isn’t worth jumping. She isn’t performing well, and there isn’t any kind of consistency or progression to her work you can count on because her foundation is flawed. For whatever reason, she’ll stop at fences and even be dirty about it.

A horse like that I would take back to the beginning, and start again. At no time would a stop be allowed, and her traininer would be not to progress until she was flawless at the basics. If she couldn’t be retrained, I’d just say “fine, you’re a dressage horse” and hang up the jump cups for her.

Its no favor to anyone to ask them to ride the horse to a fence, and it only reinforces her issue for her, so that’s how I would see it and what I would do.

Good lukc.

Hi everyone,

I want to thank everyone for their contributions. I have been reading them over the last week and I just haven’t had time to respond. I wanted to provide an update.

I had an “Animal Communicator” come out on Friday. It sounds crazy, but after seven years I didn’t know what else to do. My friend had it done and referred me to him and I learned more about my mare than I ever could have imagined. I did not tell him anything about her, he simply showed up and I said “This is Annabel”.

Without him even touching or looking carefully at her legs my mare told him that both her right legs can be uncomfortable at times. They don’t hurt, but they cause discomfort. She said she has good and bad days and actually requested I put something warm on her back right hock. We’ve noticed that she sometimes steps funny with her right front while doing dressage. We’ve had it blocked but weren’t able to find much. I had no idea about her back right until last weekend it felt a little warm and puffy so I ran cool water on it and it went away. I thought I was over-reacting so I didn’t tell my trainer. Someone on here mentioned that hock pain can increase when mare’s cycle. I’m going to have her legs checked out ASAP.

She said that she is a jumper and its her favorite thing. She said she was a dancer, but not that kind. I assumed she was referring to dressage. No, she doesn’t get good dressage scores because she is always pretty tense.

She said “You clipped my wings and I am unable to fly”. I have no idea what that means but she then said “Why did we have to change?”. Yes, she was a show jumper and we switched to eventing a couple years ago. I’m still trying to figure out what she means by “clipped my wings”.

She also was kept repeating “I wasn’t ready” and “why did we have to change?” I understand now and I think it’s true. I ride with a very competitive 4* eventer and I feel like we’ve always been in a bit of a rush to move up. We never really got to settle into a division and be successful. I’m not blaming her, I like her competitiveness but I don’t think i works for my mare.

I asked the man to ask her why she stops when we do everything right. Her response was “You tell me to stop. You don’t vision us making it over so I stop. When you think we will make it over I will do it. I will do anything for you but you need to think it. I will perform a lead change if you just think about it” (which is true).

Those were the main points I felt necessary to bring up. I had some very emotional moments where I broke down crying. Early on in the session she demanded an explanation about why I am upset with her. Later on, she asked why I don’t talk to her anymore.

Overall, I’m going to have her right legs checked out and I want to pursue show jumping with her but we have to take it slow. I’ve already discussed this with my trainer and she admitted that we might have moved her up too fast. I also need to make sure I’m two steps ahead of her no matter what we do. This is why trainers haven’t been able to tell what is wrong with her when she stops dirty. I look like I am doing everything right, but it’s true, I kind of prepare myself for a stop so I don’t fall off. I ride defensively but in my head I say “She’s going to stop”.

I’m so torn right now. I love eventing and it’s my passion. I don’t really like the show jumping world although I’ve been successful with it. I eiether have to sell my mare and move up through the levels with a braver horse (my lease right now), or give up my eventing goals for right now because I don’t want to sell her. I’ve also been doing dressage with her lately on my own because I love dressage and the art of it and it’s great training for jumpers. I’ve readjusted my focus on keeping her relaxed rather than schooling First Level exercises. It might just be walking for 45 minutes between a free walk and medium walk as long as she is relaxed.

The stopping has been reoccuring over the last four years. We’ve ridden under several different trainers who have never been able to figure out the cause. I think I need to trust my intuition a bit more on what I feel is best for her. The stopping usually occurs because we try to move up a division and then we end up being stuck in that division for a while. I need to stagger it more by moving up and then moving back down.

Thanks for reading. I know the Animal Communicator thing sounds crazy. I was a huge skeptic and wish I could figure out an explanation for how he knew all these things and I wish I caught the interaction on video. It was eery and gave me goosebumps but I feel it was worth every penny.

I am not a skeptic of communicators. I tried helping a lady learn to ride, yrs ago. She had a friend who was a communicator. I had one horse that we could never figure out. The communicator said that he wanted to go somewhere where he could be special, that he wanted a little girl to take care of. I ended up in a situation where I found his place - a set of grandparent’s who had custody of their bipolar granddaughter. He ended up being their salvation getting thru her difficult pretween yrs. She also ‘knew’ things about my other horses that there was no way she could have, not even thru the friend b/c I never told her anything.

Tough decision for you at this point. I am sure that your mare appreciates someone listening to her now.

[QUOTE=TBeventer11;7503562]
… I think I need to trust my intuition a bit more on what I feel is best for her. …[/QUOTE]

Can I endorse this with flag-waving and a marching band?

Trainers aren’t always the be-all, end-all for every horse. They are experts at what they do - eventing, show jumping, whatever it is. But sometimes we ask more of trainers than we should. They try to come through for us … but sometimes an owner does have the best intuition about their horse.

You’ve been around, you know some stuff, you have the best communication with your mare even if you feel it is a little broken right now. These are the times to put horsemanship before any particular discipline. Sounds like you can do that. :slight_smile:

Re the communicator - if it helped open your mind and give you a new perspective, then it’s wonderful. I am very glad you had a good session.

I’ve had some issues with my now 12 year old mare for the last couple of years. I had ridden my gelding to prelim and then he got hurt in a pasture accident. My mare had always loved to jump even out of the worst spot. The coach I was using with my mare kept thinking it was her and did not work on my position or confidence. I lost a lot of confidence and quit in June last year ready to sell the mare.

Last fall I grabbed some courage and went and jumped a few xc in my field and she was great. Found a new instructor who focuses on me and my position and I now have my horse back. I hope to compete at pre=training and move to training finally this fall.

My initial response is to have a pro ride her. I don’t take this as a sign of defeat, and I may receive backlash that you ought to work through it together. But as an amateur you are going to make mistakes, especially in the show-ring. Whether the goal is to keep or sell, the mare needs consistency. Knowing this mare backwards and forwards she knows you twice as much. Your lack of commitment or weak position at the base of the fence (dropping hands, tipping forward, lack of lower leg?) she catches. A (great) pro will be able to give her the confidence to know even when you’re not there to keep going. As owner you take previous experiences in the ring, while a pro can enter unbiased and commit to a correct ride. The mare’s job is to go where you point her, and somewhere along the line either from “brattiness”/spookiness she has lost a trust in herself or you to get the job done.

Definitely find a coach who is structured on correct position. With the correct position and good canter the horse can take the long or short distance as simply as the ‘perfect’ one. Somewhere along the way we have been taught to spot hunt first and not how to react to the off-distance. This will give your mare confidence when she’s coming to the oxer at a half step.

My solution for a dirty stopper is a career change and/or a new mailing address!! Sooner or later a rider will get hurt and/or you will find the horse REALLY does have a valid reason for stopping. In either case jumping might just not be in her future. JMO.

Let me just throw thus into the mix…

Some GP trainers (including a few very, very well known ones) are awfully hard on horses that don’t meet expectations. When you get one that washed out of on if those programs they sometimes come with deep seated fear of bad things happening around jumps. Sometimes the horse that flunks out of those programs is just fried physically and mentally.

These horses lose confidence on a course for some reason, even years later, they will stop dirty. Never goes away.

May or may not be a factor here. Just remember you don’t know what people do at home where nobody sees.

Even if it is pain and you fix it, horse has developed a habit that is notorious for never really going away. And it’s a habit that will hurt riders seriously, not just a PITA that will school out.

[QUOTE=findeight;7506612]
Let me just throw thus into the mix…

Some GP trainers (including a few very, very well known ones) are awfully hard on horses that don’t meet expectations. When you get one that washed out of on if those programs they sometimes come with deep seated fear of bad things happening around jumps. Sometimes the horse that flunks out of those programs is just fried physically and mentally.

These horses lose confidence on a course for some reason, even years later, they will stop dirty. Never goes away.

May or may not be a factor here. Just remember you don’t know what people do at home where nobody sees.

Even if it is pain and you fix it, horse has developed a habit that is notorious for never really going away. And it’s a habit that will hurt riders seriously, not just a PITA that will school out.[/QUOTE]

Interesting point. Sometimes a horse with a background with a pro was pushed faster than that horse could manage. Maybe other horses in the pro’s string were just fine with the expectations and the pace of training advancement, but one was not. Such horses can seem to have so much education and ability, but certain challenges bring out all the missing pieces and holes in the horse’s perception of what it can do.

As in Peter Pan, “believe” and think “happy rides” ; this will get you closer to flying again. Trust yourself and your horse will follow you any where

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