Disappointed with eventing performance

[Sakura_Hill_Farm]

Kathy, I am not saying that the eventers are not willing to work to achieve. However, the lack of funds to compensate us the breeders for what we produce is not something that we can support for any length of time. Perhaps what is lacking is a pool of monied sponsors who can buy these prospects for the riders domestically.

My use of the word “entitled” may be overly harsh. Given our experience with the rising star who proposed having us hand over our mare to her gratis and then gradually assume 100% ownership of said mare as she rose through the ranks has somewhat embittered us.

As you know, we have a competition partnership program in which we seek to place prospects in the hands of young riders. The most successful experience we have had has been with a young sj professional who was mindful of our interests as much as his own. Yes, it was exciting to see our horse out in the “big ring” with him. Yes, it did bring a spotlight to our program. However, you, Kathy, breed a far larger volume of horses each year than we do (four being our ceiling) and we cannot place ourselves in a position in which we are planning for a 1/4 sacrifice of our return (which is minimal as it is) by making an eventer-focussed breeding choice.

We are logistically well placed to explore the eventing market in nearby Ocala,and definitely have the right mares in our herd but frankly are reluctant to make the necessary strategic breeding decisions to produce UL eventers. Are we open to being convinced to do otherwise?- Of course! But it will take some pretty convincing arguments!

I know that Karin of Sporting Chance Farm has acquired some experience in placing young event horses and perhaps she could share some of her experience with us. Wynn may also have some valuable experience she could share. I remember reading somewhere that her main lament was that she had not connected with a trainer earlier on on a more consistent basis.

[Bent_Hickory]

[QUOTE=Equine Reproduction;6477057]
Our hope is that it will a: Give a super talented rider an opportunity she can’t afford; b: Get one of our super talented offspring out there and hopefully help represent our breeding program; and c: HOPEFULLY, help promote our own homegrown horses and make people sit up and take notice of what we “are” producing here.[/QUOTE]

I can accomplish a-c AND d: make some amount of return – if I point the horse/rider to the hunter/jumper market. Breeding is tough enough without trying to drink whiskey from a bottle of wine (or more appropriately drink wine from a bottle of whiskey).

[Mouse_amp_Bay]

This was posted in eventing and since I can’t say it any better I’m just going to quote Backstage (who in fairness is speaking about the Canadian olympic event experience):

[QUOTE=Backstage;6471208]

Bottom line, I think the disappointment needs to be tempered with perspective. It was 4 crappy days. There have been lots of highs over the last few years, and so we should expect some low moments especially considering our lack of depth. Most of riders have one serious upper level horse, and maybe a couple in development. The countries and riders that were medal-ling have so much more experience, not just with competitors like Mary King, WFP, Andrew Nicholson and Mark Todd who have been competing at this level for decades, but in miles per year. This year alone:

• Micheal Jung has competed at 12 FEI events at the 3* or 4* level on 4 different horses
• Sandra Auffarth has competed at 9 3* events
• Mary King has competed at 8 3* events on 3 different horses
• Andrew Nicholson has competed at 15 3* or 4* with 8 different horses
• Caroline Powell has competed at 6 3* on 5 different horses
• William Fox-Pitt has competed at 13 FEI events at the 3*/4* level on 5 different horses

By comparison in 2012, our team (through no fault of their own, to be clear - they can’t magically fund multiple upper level horses) had:

Jessie - 2 CIC3* on one horse
Michelle - 3 3* on one horse (but hadn’t competed since Rolex in 2010 at the 3* or 4* level)
Peter - 1 4* and 3* on one horse
Rebecca - 3 3* events on one horse
Hawley - 6 3* on two horse

Remember that old saying that perfect practice makes perfect? The top competitors are getting A LOT more miles, and that benefits them in a big way. Perhaps its something we can work toward long term, but we all know that finding owners is not exactly easy. So, we may just have to accept that there will be highs, and there will be lows.[/QUOTE]

I don’t have the time to look up your stats for the US riders - maybe someone can tell us how they compare to the Mike Jungs of the world!

We don’t just need better horses. Our horses can do it. Problem is that they don’t get the opportunity to do it often enough, with human pilots that do it often enough on other horses, to really be guided through the course with the level of tact and experience required. I’m sure many riders wish they had the opportunity to compete at the larger events more often on different horses - however financially that can be difficult.

[Sakura_Hill_Farm]

[QUOTE=Bent Hickory;6477405]
I can accomplish a-c AND d: make some amount of return – if I point the horse/rider to the hunter/jumper market. Breeding is tough enough without trying to drink whiskey from a bottle of wine (or more appropriately drink wine from a bottle of whiskey).[/QUOTE]

And, arguably, run a much lesser risk of injury in the process!

I myself was an eventer as a young adult although admittedly in the Dark Ages just when Bruce was devising the interval training system and Jack le Goff reigned. I competed up and down the East Coast up to and including Preliminary. I saw firsthand the toll that courses like Ledyard were taking on poorly prepared young horses . I went to Bromont as a spectator for the 1976 Olympics and have kept a distant eye on events in the eventing world since leaving it. Stories like that of Samurai, the huge number of eliminations, falls, deaths on courses at Badminten and Burghley and here in the States and Canada have deterred me from producing for the eventing world now that I am on the breeding side of the fence.

I remember an older colleague counselling me to switch disciplines when I was in the midst of competing. At that time, I dismissed his concerns. However, now I am too old to be able to envision competing in eventing and frankly am even too old to be able to tolerate the degree of anxiety I feel spectating----not to speak of watching a horse whose breeding I planned carefully going around. The margin of error is frighteningly narrow and the potential for disaster- fatal, career-ending or disruptive- is too great.

If I seem more cautious than I did in my previous posts, it is because a few hours sleep brought to my conscience the REAL reason for my reluctance…

I wouldn’t be trying to drink wine from a whiskey bottle- I would be hitting the whiskey bottle on a regular basis!

[Bayhawk]

I think it was partly the horses. I witnessed not good jumping and not good dressage athletically speaking from the horses. The riders appeared equally overfaced and absolutely unprepared.

Penny , I love ya girl but the answer is not more TB’s. They seem to struggle the most across the board at this competition. The best equipped horses appeared to be 1/2 bred WB’s or 1/4 Wb’s like Mike Jungs Stan the Man xx / Heraldik xx / WB .

I think it is obvious that the horses excelling the most have enough warmblood in them to give them the edge in jumping and dressage. The last 3 Olympics have been dominated by these blood infused warmbloods.

The problem is with the eventers themselves in this country. They need to get up off their checkbook and buy better horses instead of tryin to make that silk purse out of a sows ear. You think Michael Jung had a sows ear to start ? NO !

I have had many eventers come here with 10k to spend. They cant get one of my Holsteiner FOALS for 10k, but they want to spend that on a 3 or 4 year old ! Like I said , they need to get up off their checkbook a little more and quit expecting breeders to come up with these CRAZY sounding sales agreements as listed above.

I have got unbelievable future event prospects both here and in Holstein. I didn’t breed for that but some have come out with enormous amounts of blood , really big movement and no doubt will have the jumping skills required. I will not give them to an eventer. I will not get creative to try and place them with an eventer. They need to change THEIR culture when it comes to paying for top prospects.

[Equine_Reproduction]

[QUOTE=Bent Hickory;6477405]
I can accomplish a-c AND d: make some amount of return – if I point the horse/rider to the hunter/jumper market. Breeding is tough enough without trying to drink whiskey from a bottle of wine (or more appropriately drink wine from a bottle of whiskey).[/QUOTE]

I do that too…that is, point at the hunter/jumper market…but Margaritas are my drink of choice <lol>. Of course I “would” prefer Patron, but will have to settle with befriending Jose’ :D!

But honestly, if we’re not willing to commit to producing horses for the Olympics/International venues and make it happen, we have no right to whine when the results are disappointing. The problem isn’t unique to just Eventing, either. It would appear we - breeders, riders and competitors - just don’t believe in what we have here in North America. So how to change that? How do we make our International riders look at what we have here? Funny thing is I’m not talking about giving away all of our horses - I’m talking about what to do when a breeder might have that one horse that HAS the ability and talent to do it, matching it with a rider that has the ability, talent and DRIVE to do it and MAKE it work. That does NOT mean giving away the farm to accomplish that. With all of that said, the thing I hear over and over and over again in this country is that riders go across the pond to buy horses and we have issues getting our truly great horses into the hands of the riders that “can” tap into that greatness. We certainly aren’t helping ourselves by what is being posted here :(.

[Equine_Reproduction]

@Bayhawk;6477695

I have had many eventers come here with 10k to spend. They cant get one of my Holsteiner FOALS for 10k, but they want to spend that on a 3 or 4 year old ! Like I said , they need to get up off their checkbook a little more and quit expecting breeders to come up with these CRAZY sounding sales agreements as listed above.

I agree with this! But I also think it’s a double edged sword. First, like I said above, many (most?) eventers are young and po’. But with the attitudes shown here, most breeders aren’t willing to breed for the event market - understandably. The whole whiskey/wine (whine?) analogy is unfortunately, somewhat accurate. But there ARE eventers out there willing to spend the money so how do we encourage them to buy “local” if we aren’t willing to produce what they are looking for? Heck, the horse we’ve got going will be the underdog all the way up the ranks if he should prove to have the ability to do it! He’s a flippin’ pony, for crying out loud. But, he’s getting accolades from those in the know, so hopefully he will be the little pony that could <lol>.

I have got unbelievable future event prospects both here and in Holstein. I didn’t breed for that but some have come out with enormous amounts of blood , really big movement and no doubt will have the jumping skills required. I will not give them to an eventer. I will not get creative to try and place them with an eventer. They need to change THEIR culture when it comes to paying for top prospects.

I don’t think it’s a cultural thing so much as getting them to look at what we have HERE and not be steered abroad by those that claim there are better horses there. And how to do that if we don’t bother getting the horses we have out there competing in the discipline that would best be suited to the horse?! Gotta be a way to make it work for everyone. And as I said before, it’s not unique to eventing. Dressage and Jumper riders flock overseas, as well. Where’s the pride in what we produce here? <sad sigh>.

[vineyridge]

I have to disagree to a point with Bayhawk. If XC is still the central phase of eventing, the horses must have stamina to get through safely.

Almost all of the top XC horses, particularly from Germany and GB, were very high percentage TB. Almost all of them had at least one full TB parent; most had at least two in the next generation, if they weren’t in the first. This was a SHORT 4* course, and the non-TBs labored at the end. Mark Todd almost didn’t manage to finish with Campino; in fact, one big time eventing coach was even thinking that the Ground Jury might have eliminated him for exhaustion BEFORE the last fence that he almost didn’t make.

I’m not saying that the full TBs all went well, but Jessie Phoenix was the only rider for Canada who finished XC and she was on a full TB. The riders who weren’t on ISHs or mostly TB close up, DID NOT do well XC.

So the future is either to use horses that are suited to XC or cheapen the XC phase even more that it has already been cheapened by shortening the length, slowing the speed and reducing the number of jumping efforts, so the non XC suited horses can shine because they are better at the other phases.

I should point that that the FEI has already shortened the maximum length of the 4* by about a quarter of a mile. The Olympic course was the shortest possible 4* run at 5700 meters. Maximum is just over 6800 meters where it used to be over 7200.

I’d also like to point out that just because a horse seems to have a high blood percentage when the entire pedigree is concerned does not mean that the horse has inherited TB stamina and speed. Over the generations, those aspects of TBdom which are not needed in other disciplines can be and probably are probably bred out. To do well XC you need the TB close up–I’d say in the first two generations.

Should also point out that WFP rode a German horse and finished last on Team GB.

Germans
King Artus–82.81% TB. Sire is full TB.
Butts Abraxxas–99.61% TB
Opgun Louvo–83.59% Blood. Sire is SF by a full TB out of Opaline des Pins (superlative mare line) and the dam is also SF with a huge percent of blood. Lots of Arabian in this horse which is good for endurance, don’t you think.
Sam-75+% TB. Sire is full TB as is damsire.
Barny 71.09% TB. Sire is full TB and all the rest of the Blood is hidden in back generations. Was the German Drop Score for the Team.

Great Britain
Imperial Cavalier–sire is Cavalier, and out of an Imperius xx mare. Imperius xx was the sire of Master Imp xx.
Miner’s Frolic–100% TB
High Kingdom-at least 75% TB. Sire is Master Imp xx; damsire is Chair Lift xx.
Opposition Buzz–Trak (which I kind of classify with SFs because of the way they constantly are adding TBs to an already TB heavy base) on top of a mare who is at least 3/4ths TB.
Lionheart–no TB in the first two generations. British drop score.

[Home_Again_Farm]

Funny thing is I’m not talking about giving away all of our horses - I’m talking about what to do when a breeder might have that one horse that HAS the ability and talent to do it, matching it with a rider that has the ability, talent and DRIVE to do it and MAKE it work. That does NOT mean giving away the farm to accomplish that. With all of that said, the thing I hear over and over and over again in this country is that riders go across the pond to buy horses and we have issues getting our truly great horses into the hands of the riders that “can” tap into that greatness.

Kathy, I don’t breed eventing horses and never will. So this applies to my discipline, though I think it could apply to any of them.

Your comment above hit home. It all comes down to connections. Right now I have a young mare just being started who is IMHO the best thing I have ever bred. I believe she can go all the way in the right hands, and with the right decisions, plus the necessary luck. My goal will be to have her seen by people who can help me make the right connections. I am not asking for handouts. I know that that goal (being noticed by the right people) is not going to be easy, because most prominent judges, trainers and riders blow off what most breeders have to say about the horses they produce. The polite ones listen without an eyeroll, at least.

I have also learned over many years in the dressage world that all that glitters is not gold and that one can easily send a good horse off, pay full training to someone that I believed was very nearly a dressage god or goddess, and get back a large bill, a short video and a half wrecked horse.

There are few easy answers.

[Equilibrium]

I mentioned this in the eventing thread and got a typical response of, well we can’t do that.

Damon Hill. Produced by Ingrid Klimke as in shown too. Micheal Jung competes in both pure dressage and SJ.

Many of the shows I went to last year also included lorry loads of Eventer’s bringing there horses for schooling. Not just popping around having rails down.

So they don’t just head off for the major eventing competitions and train at home. At times when I’m galloping for racehorse trainers not uncommon to see the eventers there too.

When I mentioned these things on the other thread I got, well our riders have to teach during the week and can’t be travelling to shows all the time. Our riders are the same. They teach, produce to sell, and have client horses. But it brings up the key point of why it’s so much tougher for the US no matter how much money you have.

Spread to far out to take in pure dressage and SJ shows as a part of training. Lack of quality built courses local which are local and don’t involve massive expense and travel. I can’t imagine too many purpose built all weather gallops being available like we have here. Galloping up and down hills are great, but you won’t get the fitness you will out of a sand gallop. The gallops I’m on about are up and down too. They way things are across most of Europe means it’s a heck of a lot easier to train your horses and so much easier on the pocketbook.

You can buy and or breed the best horses in the world but the “infastructure” is not there as it is in Europe to bring them along to the best of the rider and horse’s ability.

Terri

[grayarabpony]

Thank you viney. Facts are always helpful.

Bayhawk demanding that American eventers pay a lot of money for your unproven prospects isn’t going to accomplish anything. I’m sure my statement will invite venom but wouldn’t that be typical.

[Equilibrium]

Mary Lou, I can’t quote, but your last paragraph is so true. Had my own big wakeup call last year and I won’t be making that mistake ever again.

Terri

[omare]

Why did eventing develop with no purse structure? You go to a recognized show with a jumper and you can have a good chance of winning your money back–that is a talented horse (and rider) can to even a small degree pay its way for those costs (entry fees, stabling).

You go to a recognized event except the very very very few top ones (Rolex?) – the money goes only one way–out.

It is not like it is cheap. I know a horse that went back to jumping (among other things) as the owner was tired of paying out with no return on the entry fees.

As for the US perfomance-- it was no surprize-as we have been beaten the last two Rolexs by foreigners shipping in and the weg showed weaknesses.

[vineyridge]

Cross training through high level competition is horribly expensive in the US. I have no idea what dressage USEF level competitions cost, but Show jumping (and hunters) can run you over 2k per weekend. So many of the shows are weeklong affairs as well.

Eventing is still under 1k per go, but that’s still from three to ten times what the same thing would cost in Europe.

If the US doesn’t start looking at competitor costs, we’re going to lose the average rider.

[JER]

I can’t agree with those here who say that eventers are trying to get something for nothing. The other side of that coin is that breeders – by expecting that eventers should take on their horses for free or reduced rates – are trying to get something at below market value.

I breed horses for eventing. I don’t breed for anything else. I’m not hoping to sell at higher prices to the h/j or dressage markets. I’m not breeding horses that I plan to sell to eventers only if they can’t jump 1.50m or do UL dressage. My goal is to produce the ultimate XC athlete.

Doing so require some restraint on my part. I do not breed more horses than I can support, and by support I mean into their competition years.

My first born was an Advanced eventer by age 9. Sadly, her hind pastern shattered when she was cantering between fences. I’d sent her to the Pollards at age 6, with the goal to get her to Advanced and the CCI***/**** level. She was well on her way as she was suitable for the ULs of the sport in all possible ways, including pedigree. She had a serious eventing pedigree, not some generic WB/TB mix that might event if it wasn’t a superstar in the other disciplines.

My next two are on their way up the levels. One has top-level talent, the other is a UL horse for sure but perhaps not top-tier. I sent them to a younger rider/trainer who works with our most experienced rider/trainer, and have been pleased with the arrangement. The up-and-coming rider gets two quality horses to ride but I pay their bills because the rider is a professional. I’m paying for professional services, not trying to nickel-and-dime someone into taking on a horse that I’ve bred but can’t support or don’t want to support.

My eyes roll on here when I read about breeders who say they can’t afford to support their horses in competition yet continue to put more foals on the ground. How do you know you’re breeding quality competition horses if you don’t prove that they’re competitive? Inspection scores and in-hand ribbons are no substitute for competition results. The only question that matters is: can you horse do the job?

[Bayhawk]

[QUOTE=vineyridge;6477746]
I have to disagree to a point with Bayhawk. If XC is still the central phase of eventing, the horses must have stamina to get through safely.

Almost all of the top XC horses, particularly from Germany and GB, were very high percentage TB. Almost all of them had at least one full TB parent; most had at least two in the next generation, if they weren’t in the first. This was a SHORT 4* course, and the non-TBs labored at the end. Mark Todd almost didn’t manage to finish with Campino; in fact, one big time eventing coach was even thinking that the Ground Jury might have eliminated him for exhaustion BEFORE the last fence that he almost didn’t make.

I’m not saying that the full TBs all went well, but Jessie Phoenix was the only rider for Canada who finished XC and she was on a full TB. The riders who weren’t on ISHs or mostly TB close up, DID NOT do well XC.

So the future is either to use horses that are suited to XC or cheapen the XC phase even more that it has already been cheapened by shortening the length, slowing the speed and reducing the number of jumping efforts, so the non XC suited horses can shine because they are better at the other phases.

I should point that that the FEI has already shortened the maximum length of the 4* by about a quarter of a mile. The Olympic course was the shortest possible 4* run at 5700 meters. Maximum is just over 6800 meters where it used to be over 7200.

I’d also like to point out that just because a horse seems to have a high blood percentage when the entire pedigree is concerned does not mean that the horse has inherited TB stamina and speed. Over the generations, those aspects of TBdom which are not needed in other disciplines can be and probably are probably bred out. To do well XC you need the TB close up–I’d say in the first two generations.

Should also point out that WFP rode a German horse and finished last on Team GB.

Germans
King Artus–82.81% TB. Sire is full TB.
Butts Abraxxas–99.61% TB
Opgun Louvo–83.59% Blood. Sire is SF by a full TB out of Opaline des Pins (superlative mare line) and the dam is also SF with a huge percent of blood. Lots of Arabian in this horse which is good for endurance, don’t you think.
Sam-75+% TB. Sire is full TB as is damsire.
Barny 71.09% TB. Sire is full TB and all the rest of the Blood is hidden in back generations. Was the German Drop Score for the Team.

Great Britain
Imperial Cavalier–sire is Cavalier, and out of an Imperius xx mare. Imperius xx was the sire of Master Imp xx.
Miner’s Frolic–100% TB
High Kingdom-at least 75% TB. Sire is Master Imp xx; damsire is Chair Lift xx.
Opposition Buzz–Trak (which I kind of classify with SFs because of the way they constantly are adding TBs to an already TB heavy base) on top of a mare who is at least 3/4ths TB.
Lionheart–no TB in the first two generations. British drop score.[/QUOTE]

Viney , I thought I heard them say this was only a 2* event due to it being a LONGER cross country. Doesn’t matter…EVERY horse was laboring across the finish line , full TB or not.

The TB arguement doesn’t fly. Tb infused WB’s obviously do as they have won the last 3 Olympic Games. The TB’s are getting beat in the jumping and dressage. Hunters are the same now. There’s too many over fences classes that outweigh the flat class and WB’s are dominating both disciplines.

I’m not going to get into this TB debate with you. Point is , the horses weren’t good enough nor was the preparation and training.

[dianehalpin]

The whole Butts line of eventers are all infused with a very high percentage of TB. The best Irish Sport Horses for 4* eventing are heavily infused with TB. Most U.S. eventers like at least 7/8 TB with something more substantial giving the rest. If you want to breed eventing horses, add the TB jumping lines. Trakehners may be the exception but aren’t they a more hot-blooded, TB-infused breed? And there are eventers on both sides of the Atlantic and Pacific who still go for a pure TB. I wish some of the long-time eventing breeders could join this discussion.

My trainer is an eventer, but successfully trains, rides, and shows hunters and jumpers. All of his young eventing horses go, via the day fee parking route, to h/j shows. He just pays the class entry fee plus reg. per horse fees, but no stabling fee which saves a lot. I was so lucky that throughout the year he shipped my young hunter in the same way - daily trailer parking - and saved me a boatload of money. I’ve always done the same for eventing and for hunter breeding, unless it was a big show/event or at some distance. I’ll all for trimming incidental fees any way it can be done. The point is that he can get good exposure and good schooling for his eventers for not too much money spent.

At any rate, I couldn’t raise an eventing prospect from birth through successfully handling novice or training level and sell that youngster for enough to cover costs. I can sell a young hunter that I’ve bred, raised, started, shown through the 3’ Pregreens for enough to make a little money if the youngster shows good talent at that point. (And has had no extraordinary accidents or illnesses.)

Diane Halpin & Laurel Leaf Hanoverians: Facebook

[Equilibrium]

JER, very good points.

Bayhawk, this isn’t a TB debate but you aren’t going to take a warmblood 4 and 5 generations removed from the TB and compete at 4 star level. It’s not a matter of looking blood, you need the blood. No further than a full TB in the grandparents for the 3 medalists. And MJ’s horse was ideal for the job as far as breeding.

Terri

[Sakura_Hill_Farm]

[QUOTE=JER;6477920]

…My eyes roll on here when I read about breeders who say they can’t afford to support their horses in competition yet continue to put more foals on the ground. How do you know you’re breeding quality competition horses if you don’t prove that they’re competitive? Inspection scores and in-hand ribbons are no substitute for competition results. The only question that matters is: can you horse do the job?[/QUOT

Most of our products are sold as weanlings. However,we not only put those that we retain into both training and competition but have managed to put competition records on our mares to better inform our breeding choices. One such mare may do the Mini-Prix next fall and winter in Florida. But could we do the jumpers, the hunters AND the eventing all at the same time? No, for both financial and energy reasons. We do have a mare that will be competed in the Young Dressage Horse Shows by a young trainer-- an opportunity to which we look forward . That mare, however, we did not specifically breed for dressage.

In reference to having the right connections, this is key and is developed over the years. Fortunately, we ourselves have the SJ connections developed through DD’s junior career, Mount Holyoke and time in Europe which are put together with my own as well as those of our trainer who was a Nations’ Cup rider for the UK. I did not maintain my eventing connections over my hiatus from that world of competition. We toyed with the idea of producing for dressage at one point but upon wise counsel from a fellow breeder, refrained from launching forth in the already-over-crowded and highly competent dressage breeders’ scene. At the very beginning we also toyed with the idea of “dabbling” in ponies; a wonderful dinner during which we were treated to the encyclopedic knowledge of the Welsh pony possessed by Thalia G. quickly dispelled any idea of “dabbling”! We have noted that since we began breeding, more and more breeders are developing contacts in the horse show world, prompted by the economy and the slowing demand for the younger horses.

I do think that Bayhawk is correct when he says that he has products that could perform well in the eventing format with proper preparation. However, the converse does not always prove true. The chances that a jumper-bred foal will succeed in UL eventing are far greater than an event-bred foal succeeding at GP jumping. And this is even more true when cross country is added to the horse’s repertoire–the jump tends to flatten putting the higher levels out of the horse’s reach. I am aware that, for every example of this, one can always cite the contrary, but this is a generally respected tenent.

I, too, am eager to hear more from the established Event-focused breeders about their modus operandi. We can all learn from them, I am sure.

[vineyridge]

Marius was 75% TB. Gold at Hong Kong for Germany. Butts Leon is more than 75% TB. Team Gold for Germany at Hong Kong. Butts Abraxxas is 99% TB. Team Gold at Hong Kong for Germany. I honestly don’t remember who their other horses were at Hong Kong. McKinlaigh, ISH whose dam was a full TB. Silver at Hong Kong. Miner’s Frolic is full TB. Bronze at Hong Kong.

The FEI has the Olympic eventing as a 4* competition according to its rules. Shortest permissble normal 4* is 5700 meters. The London course was 5700 meters. While the XC jumps may also have been at the 4* minimum, they were still 4* jumps.

Only the Pan Am games have run as a 2* Championship. The Europeans are 3*. I have no idea what the level of the Asian Games is.