Discussions about rider falls

[trakehners]

@Horsegirl_s_Mom

It’s weird to me that so many English riding instructors obsess over the fine points of hands, leg position, two-point etc. but never teach this basic skill that can at least give you a chance if the horse bolts forward.

We’re in the eventing forum so this probably isn’t applicable to most of us, but my counter to this would be, how many of those English riding instructors actually take themselves or their students out into open spaces where they’re at a greater risk if a horse takes off and consequently need to know a one-rein stop/pully rein?

I learned this pretty much as soon as I started having XC lessons over tiny logs out in the back field at my lesson barn when I was a kid, because my trainer definitely wasn’t risking it (even though I was on an absolute dead-head QH). I also know more than one trainer who is terrified to let their lesson students outside the walls of an arena (probably because they themselves are terrified to go outside the walls of an arena), so they definitely aren’t teaching it.

[pony_grandma]

I also teach kids the Boogie Man March. Where they sit up tall, leg on, shoulders back and recite loudly ‘I don’t see the Boogie Man.’ How to ride with that authority in your posture.

[omare]

Agree about not enough in horses mouth/head to allow rider leverage to get head up.

[pony_grandma]

Video came up on shorts and it made me think about the fixes. I didn’t closely examine headgear because it wasn’t that first thought. More to the fact that people are not taught preparedness for self survival.

When I’ve taken people out on trails - because there usually is no room to circle - I advise them to stand/squat in the saddle - get their leg secure then start shortening the reins. And in this case the pulley rein is the fix. The stand squat is for balance and being able to duck tree limbs! while they are drawing up on the horse with the reins.

[omare]

Also wonder whether some of the more extreme knee blocks keeps a rider from being able to put rider’s feet on the dashboard as they use to say to brace from going over head. .

[Scribbler]

Some really good new dressage moves here

Bucking leg yield on a diagonal … [Top level event horse returning to work after 18 months Box rest.]

This is a new thread here of a top rider on a really fresh horse. I agree that the various pulley reins etc are super useful but my impression is yes, they are used more in Western than English riding. I feel like English riding is more often arena based and the impetus is to keep the horse moving and ride through it. Also I’m not sure that a pulley rein would do much to quiet down a hot horse like this. I am also in awe of this riders seat and balance. I guess being a good jump rider makes a good buck rider!

[pony_grandma]

The thoughts about using a pulley or a one rein stop are more directed to average riders of course.
The rider here is another category. And massively entertaining to watch.

[Scribbler]

@pony_grandma

The thoughts about using a pulley or a one rein stop are more directed to average riders of course.
The rider here is another category. And massively entertaining to watch.

In western riding the actual trainers use one rein stop alor on green horses even gently at low speeds to diffuse things.

It works especially well with a horse where you can throw the balance off into the forehand and halt them like a green QH. It doesn’t always work so well with a horse that can keep their balance and it may annoy a hotter horse as a fall back move. Also in English we don’t want to ever “disengage the hind” but rather the opposite.

I do agree the child on Norway doesn’t have enough tools in her kit, but she’s able to land quite safely when she does get unseated.

I am too old to tangle with either horse!

[Rel6]

@Scribbler

I feel like English riding is more often arena based and the impetus is to keep the horse moving and ride through it.

Agreed - especially for the kind of behavior in the video in this thread, I was taught to slip my reins, sit up, and leg them forward. It isn’t the horse’s back that is dislodging her, its him yanking her forward by sticking his head between his knees. She’s sitting the bucks and then getting jerked forward by her connection to the reins. In most of the video he isn’t actually running aware or going anywhere to the point where I would feel the need for a pulley rein.

[jvanrens]

@Scribbler

It works especially well with a horse where you can throw the balance off into the forehand and halt them like a green QH. It doesn’t always work so well with a horse that can keep their balance and it may annoy a hotter horse as a fall back move. Also in English we don’t want to ever “disengage the hind” but rather the opposite.

If things are going sideways on any type of breed, regardless of the riding style, wouldn’t you want to get it stopped before things get ugly? A green QH is likely more capable (IMHO) of putting you in the dirt quicker than than a lot of other breeds. They are strong and agile and quicker than a cat at a young age. Disengaging at a young age in an emergency situation as a short term solution I don’t see as a bad thing. After the situation is over, ride on like nothing has happened, and it isn’t a big deal unless you make it one.

[Scribbler]

@jvanrens

@Scribbler

It works especially well with a horse where you can throw the balance off into the forehand and halt them like a green QH. It doesn’t always work so well with a horse that can keep their balance and it may annoy a hotter horse as a fall back move. Also in English we don’t want to ever “disengage the hind” but rather the opposite.

If things are going sideways on any type of breed, regardless of the riding style, wouldn’t you want to get it stopped before things get ugly? A green QH is likely more capable (IMHO) of putting you in the dirt quicker than than a lot of other breeds. They are strong and agile and quicker than a cat at a young age. Disengaging at a young age in an emergency situation as a short term solution I don’t see as a bad thing. After the situation is over, ride on like nothing has happened, and it isn’t a big deal unless you make it one.

I don’t disagree with this for emergencies.

But I’ve seen folks from Western World teach “disengaging the hindquarters” as a thing that leads to being able to really use a one rein stop. And that involves teaching the horse to fall on the forehand when halted. Useful strategically but bad idea as a dressage foundation.

I can sit up and take my big Paint mares head away from her in a shaffle, sidepull or rope halter, but not really in a mechanical Hackamore. It takes seat and strength and conviction.

But on the ground we’ve done enough lateral work that trying to disengage her hind or “send her around” is pointless in a blowup because she can boom around quite nicely in shoulder in!

[jvanrens]

I think it’s a case of knowing how to use it and over using it. I’ve been fortunate to not have to use it hardly ever, so when i do it is effective and doesn’t become a crutch. Unfortunately the ones it likely would have been useful on had me lying on my back before I had a chance to use it. Eternal Sun and Te N Te equals rocket fuel IME. Nice horse, but I wasn’t putting my backside on him again after the second time he put me on my ass.

[cayuse]

Not to derail thread but Eternal Sun brings me back, I had an Eternal Sun bred gelding and he was a tough one (that’s being polite) are they known for being, umm, tricky?

[jvanrens]

@cayuse

Not to derail thread but Eternal Sun brings me back, I had an Eternal Sun bred gelding and he was a tough one (that’s being polite) are they known for being, umm, tricky?

Our Eternal Sun crossed with a Te N Te grandson came out from under me twice in no time at all. No notice, just gone. Not saying I was the be all to end all when it came to colt starting, but I wouldn’t have thrown my leg over one again in a hurry. The Leo San bred mare (sire Brother Star) was an easy one, she was doing figure eights off my leg , no rein required. I would have bought her if I didn’t already have two already

[Beam_Me_Up]

I’ve always been encouraged to try to ride forward through bucking. Which is difficult for me, because I too just want to stop, but from a training perspective it helped my horse, who used to be a committed bucker.

[Scribbler]

strong text[quote=“Beam_Me_Up, post:20, topic:794717, full:true”]
I’ve always been encouraged to try to ride forward through bucking. Which is difficult for me, because I too just want to stop, but from a training perspective it helped my horse, who used to be a committed bucker.
[/quote]

Bucking can be caused by a horse caught between the impulse to go forward and and impulse or command to slow or stop. Also a buck can be easier to sit at speed because the horse tosses you forward but is also moving forward. Whereas a buck that is part of a downward transition is more likely to put you off balance over the shoulder. Keeping the head up and riding tall and forward can be the way through if you have the seat and the courage. My mare has bucked me off twice, both tiny bucks at a standstill

I would not however have the courage to put my advice here into action. But I don’t necessarily think a one reined stop would make a significant improvement in either horses at the moment. It could give you a chance to leap off and do ten minutes of free longeing to get the wiggles out!

[pony_grandma]

I had a bucker long ago. But it wasn’t aggression, I found out he needed a release. I stood in the stirrups and rode him aggressively forward so it was run and buck, it flattened him out. It came to be his playtime which he needed. In anticipation of his fun he didn’t plant himself and buck We had our understanding. The run and buck was far better than the shy (to unseat you), then spin, dump game he’d play.

[Edre]

@Rel6

It isn’t the horse’s back that is dislodging her, its him yanking her forward by sticking his head between his knees. She’s sitting the bucks and then getting jerked forward by her connection to the reins.

This is what I am seeing, too. He’s able to yank her forward, down, and out of position at which point, it’s like popping a cork out of a champagne bottle - one more buck and POP you’re completely out of the tack. Armchair quarterbacking this since there’s very little context for how this specific pair rides other than showing the bucking, but I think rider needs to work on the strength and ability to keep the head up. This feels like a more extreme progression of the horse who has figured out how to yank the reins to pull the rider forward to avoid connection and/or work. Pick a horse up after a walk break and they go “hmmm…no.” and shove their head down and out to jerk you out of the tack. With a tactful ride and timing, this really isn’t an insurmountable problem but it’s definitely a skillset that a rider needs to develop to keep in their “toolbox”.

[sherian]

I’m a ride them forward person. I have seen the one rein stop result in horse and rider going down in a heap and I have also seen an little arab merrily bolt down the trail for a few miles with it’s nose at the riders toe so I question it being the fix all technique people claim - it works in some circumstances but teaching people that it’s always the answer and it will always keep them safe is misleading.

[Aussie_2020]

We got a horse in for training that had a ‘duck the head right and bolt’ move. Trainer put a snaffle bit on that had a twisted wire on the left and smooth on the right. She told me to set my left hand coming up to the jump. The horse hit the twist as he swung his head to the right. I was able to stop his bolt within two strides. He tried it a couple of times and then quit. We switched to a regular snaffle for the rest of the ride and the horse never tried it again. I’d never seen a bit like that half and half one, as a training tool it worked really well. It wouldn’t be something to use on a regular basis or in the hands of a rough rider.