Do air vests really protect you during a fall?

[RAyers]

Actually, did you actually read the article? They mentioned that the lanyard can cause a modification to trajectory (that would be a direct cause due to an air vest); the sound (that is a direct cause of the air vest); and again, the 1.7 times increase is not scaremongering because it is a clear increase when an air vest is worn. Use Occam’s Razor given all other variables being equal.

Now, let’s define “sever chest injury.” Does that mean crushing injury with no broken bones? Does it mean there has to be broken bones? In ANY quality epidemiological study, the parameter definitions are absolutely paramount in order to conduct the appropriate statistics. The list they provide in the BE study is impossible to measure using their methodology. And they claim in their results that it is likely an air vest will NOT prevent serious injury.

[Janet]

@Highflyer1

While rotational falls are the most likely to cause serious injury/death (and they do occur in the h/j rings as well) the vast majority of eventing falls, especially at the lower levels, are just straight up rider falls.

Having filled out a LOT of USEF fall forms, I can confirm that the VAST majority are of the form “horse stopped - rider didn’t”. Just like hunter/jumpers.

[poltroon]

The way that some inflatable vests wrap around the neck is one of the things that most concerns me about them. They cannot be “supporting” your neck against the force of a fall - if you do the math around the forces you would see this. It is just like the claims of sports medicine boots “supporting” the tendons when the math shows that they cannot do so, and that if they did, they’d be redistributing the force into the joints, potentially causing arthritis, and further, that the extra heat they add to tendons makes a tendon injury more likely, not less likely.

What they can do is influence the shape of your body when you hit the ground in a way that can potentially cause your vertebrae to incur greater injuries - the burst fractures, as RAyers has written about more eloquently than I can.

As to the “there’s not much evidence for foam body protectors either” I agree, especially for preventing much more than bruises or lacerations. But, they have I think less possibility of creating injury.

That 1.7 times increase in severe and fatal injuries might be noise, sure. This is tricky data. But it sure suggests that it’s more likely that the air vests have no real benefit rather than that they have a dramatic benefit.

[BayAreaRider]

Well if you don’t want to listen to the authors of the study then there is not much more I can say. You really want to believe air vests are bad.

https://www.jsams.org/article/S1440-2440(19)31683-4/fulltext

Their study doesn’t address the lanyard. They only mention other papers that talk about the lanyard. They even talk about the noise startling the rider. Which any air vest wearer knows is not an issue. I’ve never even seen a horse startle from the vest, either my horse that I’ve “dismounted” from or other horses in the ring.

They also saw an increase in injury as you went up levels. So according to your belief people shouldn’t be riding 4* and 5* because more injuries happen at those levels.

Read what you want of the BE study. We don’t need to define “serious chest injury”. Of course they didn’t say air vest will not prevent serious injury. NO ONE is saying air vest will protect you from everything. NO ONE is saying air vests are better than hard shell. What they did say, again, is that they saw a 13% reduction in serious injury.

[OnDeck]

@BayAreaRider

British Eventing found that air vest reduced severe chest injury in a rotational fall by 13%. From what I’ve read if a car safety feature reduced injury by 13% they would be recommended for use.

I can absolutely believe that air vests do reduce your risk of chest injury. But what no one mentions is that a back/neck injury has very different mechanics behind it. I am personally more worried about a spinal cord injury. I would love to see a study focused on spine protection with these vests, especially compression fractures. It just doesn’t seem to me that hitting the ground in a rigid position is a good idea for your back.

[paw]

What I’d like to see (and perhaps have missed) is a study involving h/j riders (not eventers). I’m personally still not convinced that the benefits of an air vest outweigh the risks. Perhaps there haven’t been as many data points…

[skydy]

@BayAreaRider

Their study doesn’t address the lanyard. They only mention other papers that talk about the lanyard. They even talk about the noise startling the rider. Which any air vest wearer knows is not an issue. I’ve never even seen a horse startle from the vest, either my horse that I’ve “dismounted” from or other horses in the ring.

Somewhere online there is a video of a well known rider’s horse spooking from the activation of the vest. It does happen. Some horses don’t mind the noise and others do.

[Blugal]

@skydy

Somewhere online there is a video of a well known rider’s horse spooking from the activation of the vest. It does happen. Some horses don’t mind the noise and others do.

Riders who have noise-sensitive horses probably self-select to not wear one of these vests…

[bluepece2]

@skydy

Somewhere online there is a video of a well known rider’s horse spooking from the activation of the vest. It does happen. Some horses don’t mind the noise and others do.

One of my friends had to give away a pony she bought for a riding school because it was so scared of the airbag noise. It came from the previous owner. Any time it thought it would hear the sound it went into a blind panic. So kid is a bit off balance? Pony freaks out. Kid falls off, goodbye pony.

[poltroon]

You understand that when you are replying to RAyers that you are arguing with someone who does professional work in this field, has direct experience doing related research, and has a much longer publication list than the principal author of the paper you’re citing, yes?

IE: sure, ask him questions. We’ll all be smarter. His opinions about air vests might be wrong - as several people have said, there isn’t a lot of evidence either way. But, your replies that treat him as a layperson are out of place.

[BayAreaRider]

poltroon, it is commendable for you to stick up for RAyer.

I think it is not very nice of you to say that the eventing fall study’s authors are less than RAyers. Did you research the authors CV? I’m sure they are just as qualified to speak on the issue as RAyers.

I have not disparaged RAyers character at all. I have not called into to question their education or expertise. I don’t understand how I “treat him as a layperson”. Even if I did, he is just another person with their opinions. I have only responded to what he haS written in this post that I disagree with. No papers were introduced or data sets presented, only opinions. So to me RAyers is just like any other person in this forum.

[trubandloki]

@BayAreaRider

I don’t understand how I “treat him as a layperson”. Even if I did, he is just another person with their opinions.

I am confused how these two thoughts can go together?

It is like debating something with a vet here and saying you give their medical advice the same weight as the opinion of every other poster.

Someone is informing you that this topic is the profession that someone here has vast experience in, not just an opinion.
No one is saying you have to agree with their knowledge, but it certainly does not have the same weight as every other poster.

[RAyers]

No, you haven’t disparaged me. However, you appear to not have actually read the research nor are you conversant in the statistical methods used in your comments about my opinions. I am trying to reduce the complex multivariate statistics to simple statements for the typical horse person who may believe an airvest is some amazing safety device.

You are free to disagree with me, but you can not disagree or re-write the data that is reported. And that data indicates air vests in practice are not the devices claimed by the manufacturers.

If you want the dataset, go to all fall data collected by the FEI. It is available on their website. Then run the statistical analyses to prove my statements incorrect. I am happy to enjoin the discussion when folks are appropriately educated to their claims and assertions.

[Bogie]

@skydy

Manufacturers won’t sink large amounts of money into testing when there is already a market for their expensive untested safety equipment.

That is the bottom line. I know plenty of people who wear them and have read the studies that have been done. There is not enough evidence yet to make me buy one, but I do wear my traditional vest.

[anon40672407]

@skydy

The “anti-air vest sentiment” comes most often from people who understand that the design could easily exacerbate or even cause injuries.

Is there any evidence of this?

[RAyers]

Please look at the epidemiology in the published studies. The likelihood of severe injury or death increases by 70% when an air vest is used over a standard vest.

Additionally, there are many cases where claims where the vest prevented injury but upon review of the actual outcomes show the rider suffered serious injury.

As a researcher who studies and has published work on spine biomechanics, if one examines other industries where protective vests are used, we see that anytime a vest creates a rigid posture of the spine the risk of burst and compression fractures increase due to the limitation of the torso to bend and flex.

[Bogie]

@RAyers

Please look at the epidemiology in the published studies. The likelihood of severe injury or death increases by 70% when an air vest is used over a standard vest.

Additionally, there are many cases where claims where the vest prevented injury but upon review of the actual outcomes show the rider suffered serious injury.

As a researcher who studies and has published work on spine biomechanics, if one examines other industries where protective vests are used, we see that anytime a vest creates a rigid posture of the spine the risk of burst and compression fractures increase due to the limitation of the torso to bend and flex.

Wow.

[OnDeck]

@RAyers

As a researcher who studies and has published work on spine biomechanics, if one examines other industries where protective vests are used, we see that anytime a vest creates a rigid posture of the spine the risk of burst and compression fractures increase due to the limitation of the torso to bend and flex.

Where can I find research on this? I’ve been interested in finding out more about this.

[Always_WIP]

Yes, the traditional foam vests make a huge difference in falls - even in h/j. I’m an adult amateur and found that falls in a traditional vest meant soreness for a day or two versus being sore for a week. I’ve also been flung into an arena wall, and without the vest I could have been really hurt.

I highly recommend folks wear them whenever possible.

[RAyers]

What sort of papers are you looking at? A simple search on “explosive” “blast” “spine” “injury” can pull up quite a bit from the VA and military medical folks.