Do you allow free lunging/turnout in your indoor arena?

[Appsolute]

NOPE.

Our barn has a strict “no turn out” policy for the indoor. It has the best footing on the property (good base, sand euro felt mix) and they don’t want it getting destroyed.

Lunging is only allowed when the weather is bad, and they ask you not spin circles in the same place - but rather move around. If my horse starts digging in and taking off / antics… indoor lunge session is over, because I don’t want her tearing up the base.

We do have 2 outdoor rings, and 5 round pens that can be used for free lunging or turn out (but all can be closed after heavy rains).

[QUOTE=butiwantedapony;8273970]
I’m not sure why turn-out or free lunging should be damaging to the footing unless you have CRAZED couped up horses being let loose in there? None of my horses would do more than walk around a bit, then stand at the gate or munch on hay if turned out in there, and if free lunging that is controlled?[/QUOTE]

My horse will run like a maniac and tear up the base just about any chance she has - even if she was turned out all night - she loves to open up and GALLOP in the arena (and we do not feed hay in the arenas?)

[SmartAlex]

I don’t think no turnout is too strict a rule. I even get torqued when my mother turns her horse loose in the outdoor and chops my already questionable footing all to heck.

[SquishTheBunny]

It would be a deal breaker for me. One of mine needs a good romp when it’s cold or he will kill me. Our barns arena footing is excellent and it gets used for stallion free jumping inspections, occasional turnout and free lunging when not occupied by riders.

[SharonA]

I agree 100% with “your barn, your rules.” You don’t need to say any more than that. Personally, I find myself unable to understand how a supervised horse running in the indoor and doing the occasional slide is all that different from a horse plus rider doing a fast jump course and occasionally refusing a fence and sliding through it. I also am not able to grasp why a horse rolling in the indoor could tear up the base, when it does not tear up the horse’s withers. I would think that the hardest thing on the footing and base would be the continual drilling around the rail.

No turnout large enough to permit a safe romp and sprint, even in inclement weather, would be a dealbreaker for me, though if there is safe outdoor turnout, I wouldn’t need to turn out in the indoor. In general, though, I feel like indoors and their footing are like any other horse facilities – you get them clean and perfect and the way you want them… and then the horses arrive, and chew and poop and bang away at things. But that’s horses. Horses are messy, destructive creatures and we servants must constantly be cleaning up after them and paying to fix what they’ve broken.

[myrna]

to all the people saying “it would be a deal breaker for me” get your own place,pay for the upgrades,maintenance etc. then see what you think.i don’t let my own horse loose in the arena,why should any one else.there are alternatives.we do set up a free jumping chute sometimes,but that is not a free for all.

[whbar158]

[QUOTE=SharonA;8276995]
I agree 100% with “your barn, your rules.” However, I find myself unable to understand how a supervised horse running in the indoor and doing the occasional slide is all that different from a horse plus rider doing a fast jump course and occasionally refusing a fence and sliding through it. I also am not able to grasp why a horse rolling in the indoor could tear up the base, when it does not tear up the horse’s withers.

No turnout despite inclement weather would be a dealbreaker for me, though if there is safe outdoor turnout, I wouldn’t need to turn out in the indoor. Indoors and their footing are like any other horse facilities – you get them clean and perfect and the way you want them… and then the horses arrive, and chew and poop and bang away at things. But that’s horses. My opinion is that the indoor should be maintained the same way any other thing around the farm is maintained. Horses are messy, destructive creatures and we servants must constantly be cleaning up after them and fixing what they’ve broken.[/QUOTE]

Because someone refusing and sliding probably isn’t an every day thing (or one would hope) if you have a lot of people turning out it is going to damage the footing.

If I had a young horse or a horse that needed extra (I have yet to have one or work with one much that wasn’t ok with ample turnout). I grew up in an area that it is NOT common to use rings (indoor or out) for turn out. One place where we had some young horses we did lung and do some free lunging in the indoor but not much. So some of it depends on where you live and what the turn out is like where you are. Yes I free lunged a horse I leased in AZ a lot before I rode her, she was a hot mare who got “turned out” in a round pen for 20 mins a day a few times a week. But I did it in one of the round pens and just long enough to get a few bucks out.

So if you live in a place where turn out isn’t great I would have a space like a round pen where people can lunge/free lunge if they wanted, but honestly use one of the arenas? If you have a lot of boarders this sucks that the ring is being used.

Sure setting up a jumping chute is great for young horses, but like where my horse lives there is no reason, its a lesson barn and boarding barn for her students, there are no babies there. And if you wanted you could totally set up a day when it is ok and set up by the BO as a day to do it. If I owned a place you can bet that I would say no turn out in the rings and no free lunging in the rings people are dumb and even supervised I have seen horses destroy things. Have places for people to lunge that aren’t the rings.

[SharonA]

[QUOTE=myrna;8277061]
get your own place,pay for the upgrades,maintenance etc. then see what you think.[/QUOTE]

Well, we don’t need our own places to pay for upgrades and maintenance. That’s why board at a good barn is expensive – we are paying for upgrades and maintenance and it’s not even our own place!

A BO can and should do a good long-term business plan and factor the costs of big projects into the monthly board, for all this stuff.

[dotneko]

[QUOTE=SharonA;8276995]
I agree 100% with “your barn, your rules.” You don’t need to say any more than that. Personally, I find myself unable to understand how a supervised horse running in the indoor and doing the occasional slide is all that different from a horse plus rider doing a fast jump course and occasionally refusing a fence and sliding through it. I also am not able to grasp why a horse rolling in the indoor could tear up the base, when it does not tear up the horse’s withers. I would think that the hardest thing on the footing and base would be the continual drilling around the rail.

No turnout large enough to permit a safe romp and sprint, even in inclement weather, would be a dealbreaker for me, though if there is safe outdoor turnout, I wouldn’t need to turn out in the indoor. In general, though, I feel like indoors and their footing are like any other horse facilities – you get them clean and perfect and the way you want them… and then the horses arrive, and chew and poop and bang away at things. But that’s horses. Horses are messy, destructive creatures and we servants must constantly be cleaning up after them and paying to fix what they’ve broken.[/QUOTE]

They damage the base with the ‘shear factor’. Watch a horse roll. They don’t just drop and roll over - they push sideways with their body mass to roll over. That is what causes unevenness in the base.
Walk on a beach - if the sand is just the correct consistency you will see what I mean. Just the simple act of walking can shear the sand sideways.
My base is stonedust and clay over road base. On top of that is sand/sawdust mix. While horses could never get down to the road base, they can get down to the clay if they are dedicated enough.
After 20 years my base is still flat as a billiard table.

[fordtraktor]

I totally agree with you, OP. And the way 99% of boarders do it, “free longeing” is turnout where you chase your horse until it gallops around and tears up the footing, so it’s not at all a controlled behavior. If I had an indoor with good footing there is no way I would permit it!

[ladymcts]

I’ve boarded at three facilities long term (a couple others for short stints), and it was allowed at two of them, but not at the third (where I am now).

I really really really miss it. There are a couple of ways I used the freedom in the past … one would be in wintertime when the horses don’t have good footing, and it was a good way for me to give my boys some time to kick up their heels a little bit and get some exercise that didn’t involve a saddle or going in circles. Was also nice for me that 10 minutes of freedom for them wwas probably more exercise than I would give them after 20 minutes of lunging each one … 10 minutes versus 40, I want the 10. I’m lazy.

The other way I would use it before was more in the natural horsemanship type stuff. I want my horse to be able to work from my commands without having to tug at a rope all the time. He’s got good ground manners, but releasing him from the devices is one more way to advance from there. The people at the vet school were floored when three assistants couldn’t get him to move a certain way, and I called at him from across the room and he did what I asked.

So yeah, as much as I am usually a rule follower and do my best to abide by whatever a barn owner asks, and I can see the reason for not allowing it, I will sheepishly admit that this is the one rule i’ve broken a few times at the new barn. We have no mirrors or things to be broken, and on the few times I’ve done it, I’ve raked over the divots left behind. We’re talking maybe 3-4 times in two years, not once a week. I’m such a polite rebel … (and hoping the barn owner isn’t reading this!).

[Forte]

I should clarify a few things. I do allow free jumping if it is done in a controlled and orderly manner.(the horse being jogged into the chute by a handler and then caught at the other end by another handler). I’ve not had any damage done to the footing by free jumping or jumping under saddle. The damage I’ve seen is when people are cracking a lunge whip, making the horse gallop around madly and then sliding at the end. The other damage I’ve seen is when people leave their horses unattended in the ring and my kickboards get chewed up. I have young horses and break all my youngsters myself, so I totally understand issues around “getting the bucks out” and making sure no one gets dumped. I’ve really never had any issues with this though. The horses are turned out for usually 8 hours a day in large paddocks that are roughly the same square footage as the indoor arena anyways. Again, don’t really see the need for further turnout in the arena as they are turned out in a large area anyways (Ibex, these paddocks are 10 times the size of what you are used to in the Lower Mainland). There is the odd day in the winter where the weather is so extreme that turnout is not possible. In this case the horses are ridden, or lunged, or handwalked so the horses aren’t stuck in their stalls all day going crazy. If the horses are not turned out due to inclement weather, I will personally hand walk any boarder’s horse that was not able to come to the barn that day. I really haven’t had any issues with horses being too hyper managing them in this way. And this is with young, powerful greenbroke warmbloods. I think at the end of the day it’s a dollars and cents issue. The profit margin on boarding is so small. If I have to repair my base and kickboards every couple of years due to the wear and tear of people turning their horses out in the indoor, I will actually be losing money by accepting boarders!

[SquishTheBunny]

If you aren’t hurting for business stick to your rules! Yes, some people would find it problematic (as we often get a month or more of zero turn out here, I would not be at a barn that refuses play in the arena), but others may not! I think in areas where horses can always go out, there’s less need for a romp. But when horses can’t be lunged, free time in the arena is ideal especially for the older guys who get stiff standing in a stall for weeks at a time.

[Casey09]

Obviously the barn owner gets to make the rules, and I’ve heard of that rule before so I don’t think that it is anything completely bizarre.
However, at the end of the day, it’s a business and it comes down to a business decision, pure and simple. The real question is whether this rule is costing you enough boarders that you’d be better off repairing the footing from the damage caused by free lunging, or if repairing the footing is so expensive that a few boarders who find it to be a deal breaker aren’t worth the maintenance costs.

[Forte]

[QUOTE=SquishTheBunny;8278599]
If you aren’t hurting for business stick to your rules! Yes, some people would find it problematic (as we often get a month or more of zero turn out here, I would not be at a barn that refuses play in the arena), but others may not! I think in areas where horses can always go out, there’s less need for a romp. But when horses can’t be lunged, free time in the arena is ideal especially for the older guys who get stiff standing in a stall for weeks at a time.[/QUOTE]

See now this is really interesting to me. When I was a boarder, “no turnout for a month” would have absolutely been a deal breaker for me. Why aren’t the horses getting turned out for a month? I see that you are in Toronto. I am near Collingwood, about 2 hours north of you. I’ve been told that our weather here is much more extreme than in areas closer to the city, especially since we are on top of the Niagara Escarpment. Even during the very worst winters, the longest my horses have gone without turnout is 2 days. So I’m really curious why horses at your barn can’t be turned out.

[trubandloki]

I do not know about your world, Forte, but I know that every place is is not created equal. Maybe you are lucky and you have such a great set-up that during the winter months you never have less than ideal footing outside.

The problem I have in the winter is ice.

[QUOTE=myrna;8277061]
to all the people saying “it would be a deal breaker for me” get your own place,pay for the upgrades,maintenance etc. then see what you think.i don’t let my own horse loose in the arena,why should any one else.there are alternatives.we do set up a free jumping chute sometimes,but that is not a free for all.[/QUOTE]
I do not see where anyone on this thread that says it is a deal breaker for them is telling the OP to change her policy.
The OP asked for opinions, people are giving their opinions.

[kdow]

As a potential boarder it would only be a deal breaker for me if there were no exceptions ever, for any reason. Like if the vet needed to see my horse moving freely on a good surface to evaluate an issue, and the arena was the best available option, I’d be unhappy to not be able to do as the vet requested. I’d assume it would be appropriate to check with the BO first, of course, so I just wouldn’t want to feel like the BO wasn’t willing to allow wiggle room in the rules no matter what.

In general, though - if there are plenty of other turnout options with safe footing for general turn out and someplace that can be used for lunging, then the arena should be reserved for the primary purpose, which is a work area. If I turned up to ride I wouldn’t want to find someone using the arena for turnout with the footing all messed up, etc.

I think I’d maybe not be as comfortable with it if the property did not have options for turn out that were likely to be in safe condition the vast majority of the time. A couple of days of no turnout and hand walking is one thing, if the property had major problems with something like the paddocks and pastures flooding and being unsafe for use for weeks at a time, so that the arena was the only place available to let them stretch their legs, then either the BO would have to set about creating another safe space ASAP, or allow use of the arena.

[Forte]

[QUOTE=trubandloki;8278872]
I do not know about your world, Forte, but I know that every place is is not created equal. Maybe you are lucky and you have such a great set-up that during the winter months you never have less than ideal footing outside.

The problem I have in the winter is ice.

I do not see where anyone on this thread that says it is a deal breaker for them is telling the OP to change her policy.
The OP asked for opinions, people are giving their opinions.[/QUOTE]
I’m not sure luck has as much to do with it. I’ve spent an incredible amount of time, money and effort into maintaining the paddocks with proper drainage, safe fencing, picking rocks out, checking for hazards etc, so that the paddocks are usable almost every day. Of course there are times especially in the spring that despite my best efforts , the paddocks are not safe due to ice and then then the horses don’t get turned out. But that is rarely more than a few days here and there. I do of course allow exceptions to the “no turnout” in the indoor rule. The example someone gave of the vet wanting to see their horse move loose would certainly be an example of a time I’d make an exception. I realize that in certain areas of the world, weather and ground conditions may be different and not allow for paddock turnout for long periods of time. My area is just not one of them

[Nestor]

[QUOTE=Forte;8278936]
I’m not sure luck has as much to do with it. I’ve spent an incredible amount of time, money and effort into maintaining the paddocks with proper drainage, safe fencing, picking rocks out, checking for hazards etc, so that the paddocks are usable almost every day. Of course there are times especially in the spring that despite my best efforts , the paddocks are not safe due to ice and then then the horses don’t get turned out. But that is rarely more than a few days here and there. I do of course allow exceptions to the “no turnout” in the indoor rule. The example someone gave of the vet wanting to see their horse move loose would certainly be an example of a time I’d make an exception. I realize that in certain areas of the world, weather and ground conditions may be different and not allow for paddock turnout for long periods of time. My area is just not one of them[/QUOTE]

I don’t know if it’s totally area-dependent, but it’s also property-owner-dependent. At least here, most property owners don’t put in the time, money, and maintenance to have paddocks that are usable 24/7/365. Often they get too sloppy in wet weather, or too icy or mogul-y in the winter. Frozen moguls are a big culprit here, and when we get wet weather, followed by a freeze, the footing in our turnouts just isn’t safe. I’m at a place now where the owners do put in all of the effort to keep the place up and running, but our winter weather simply does not allow for regular turnout without risking injury. We definitely go through long spells of no turnout. Some BOs may not be as discriminatory about turnout conditions, but my BM is, and my wallet and I appreciate it. Warmblood + winter = wild, no matter how much exercise and turnout, so bad footing in turnout means vet bills. Period. Consider yourself lucky to have a set-up and weather that doesn’t have you facing this problem!

[PlanB]

[QUOTE=Forte;8278802]
See now this is really interesting to me. When I was a boarder, “no turnout for a month” would have absolutely been a deal breaker for me. Why aren’t the horses getting turned out for a month? I see that you are in Toronto. I am near Collingwood, about 2 hours north of you. I’ve been told that our weather here is much more extreme than in areas closer to the city, especially since we are on top of the Niagara Escarpment. Even during the very worst winters, the longest my horses have gone without turnout is 2 days. So I’m really curious why horses at your barn can’t be turned out.[/QUOTE]

I’m betting ice. Toronto has a bit more freeze/thaw/freeze, while you may have just snow underfoot.

[Forte]

Oh ok that actually makes sense. Up in my neck of the woods we stay frozen solid for the whole winter and then just maybe a week or two of freeze/thaw cycles in the spring. During the winter the paddocks and walkways have a layer of fluffy soft snow on them . the horses actually seem to really love rolling and playing in the soft snow. Much better than our muddy Vancouver days!