Do you take Flexion Tests Seriously?

[Sometimes]

I think the issue is that while you “know” from your experience with the horse that her positive flexion is caused by her back, someone else looking at her to purchase wouldn’t know that. A positive flexion “could” be caused by many things and unfortunately it would difficult for them to rule them out because not all positive flexions are caused by something evident on a radiograph, etc. Someone looking to purchase just may not want to deal with those (or any for that matter) issues.

And yes you can make some (I wouldn’t say all) horses positive by too aggressive of a flexion – but some vets believe in those type of flexions (I do not) which is a problem in itself.

[QUOTE=Maya01;7232117]
The horse is 7 years old, when I purchased her as a young horse, she was flexed sound. The issue is predominantly after her heats, in the cold and when not being ridden on a consistent basis. That being said, I haven’t been riding much (away at school) and she passed the flexion we did on her the other day just to see.

No she is not a GP horse (what an assinine comment by the way). Please spare me from your apparent need to behave like a passive aggressive troll. Moving on…

She does not have any lower limb issues because I have never allowed her to be stiff enough in her back long enough to warrant any compensation issues. I had a horse in the passed with a roached back who developed stifle and hock problems from being chronically sore in her back before I acquired her. She now has severe arthritis in her back and joints.

Thinking about the flexion logically, is it not possible for a vet to make a horse lame by either holding it too long, holding the leg too high, or the horse generally being sensitive? This seems like a very arbitrary art to base your decisions off of.

Not only that but when the apparent issue is something as easily maintained as a stiff back, why does that heavily deter people when in the grand scheme of things it is one of the easier ailments to treat?[/QUOTE]

[Appsolute]

Eh - I bought a OTTB that had “iffy” flexions, and “iffy” x-rays on a front fetlock. Two previous buyers passed on him.

I rode him for 10 years, jumped a TON, ran prelim level eventing, did children’s jumpers, fox hunted, and basically rode the heck out of him like a teenager with thousands of acres of open space tends to do.

He stayed sound - did develop some arthritis in a knee that was managed with injections, ended up losing him to a pasture accident.

PP’s - depends on what risks you are willing to take, the individual etc. If I had the budget for a horse of the same quality with clean x-rays and good flexions, I might have passed on my guy - but I was willing to take on the risk in exchange for the lower price for the higher quality.

[Ruby_G_Weber]

Not having read this entire thread forgive me if I repeat something that already been said…
Flexions are only a part of a pre-purchase or lameness exam. They are extremely variable due to the force with which one vet flexes the joint and the length of time held - in comparison to another. That said if there is a significant difference between two flexions of the same joint, for example, LF and RF toe flexion I would be concerned.

[Lexus]

[QUOTE=Renn/aissance;7231976]

I’m asking this for my own edification. Isn’t it possible that a SI weakness could lead the horse to compensate by overloading lower joints, thus causing more wear on the lower joints and leading to the positive flexion? So the actual problem is up high, but the horse appears symptomatic down low?[/QUOTE]

This is absolutely a possibility, I am having that very issue now with one of my horses.

[Renn_aissance]

[QUOTE=Ghazzu;7231984]
Wouldn’t degeneration of the lower joints constitute a a lower limb lameness, by definition, though? It could certainly be secondary to something else.

The OP seems to be maintaining that the horse is sound, and has no lower limb problem.[/QUOTE]

I see what you are saying- thanks.

[equisusan]

[QUOTE=Ghazzu;7231984]
Wouldn’t degeneration of the lower joints constitute a a lower limb lameness, by definition, though? It could certainly be secondary to something else.

The OP seems to be maintaining that the horse is sound, and has no lower limb problem.[/QUOTE]

Well many of you may not be old enough but speaking for the middle agers… I have plenty of joints with degeneration on X-ray but no pain which would cause “lameness”. Some people with the same degenerative changes would experience pain (likely not riders - ha ha).

In my experience horses are the same. Some are tough or don’t feel pain easily and you need to look for subtle signs of injury while others are more sensitive and limp easily.

Just another complexity in determining “soundness”.

[supershorty628]

[QUOTE=Maya01;7230307]

I also wonder how many GP horses or top hunters would pass a flexion test. I think there is a reason it’s not legal to do them in FEI vet boxes.[/QUOTE]

My horse would. Her rider, on the other hand, definitely would not. I probably would get thrown out of a jog, too. :lol:

I take flexions into consideration, but I consider x-rays much more than the flexions. There are so many variables with flexions - how long, how high, how much pressure, etc. I use them as a head’s up that there may be a problem, but a less-than-perfect flexion wouldn’t deter me.

[Pipkin]

One of the most successful horses I know (he is now 19, and still winning Hunter Trials, so not exactly sedate work) failed a vetting badly enough for vet to tell the prospective buyers not to buy him. They did anyway (for a much lower price) and he has done nothing but win ever since. This was about five years ago.

[vxf111]

Back and SI issues (even if intermittent) would scare me off as a buyer. The fact that she flexes off isn’t the issue in the abstract, it’s that she has legitimate issues. Some people may have more/less tolerance for that. I won’t pass on a horse JUST because it flexes. Especially hocks. Especially an older/experienced horse. But a 7 year old with back/SI interests wouldn’t be something I’d buy. Even if it flexed sound. Other people’s tolerances will vary.

[hype]

Flexions

Flexions are a tool. They are used along with other tools to determine a horse’s soundness or identify problems which may or may not arise.

People need to remember that a vet check is a snapshot for a place in time, not a future determination of soundness or usefulness.

It might indicate things that could arise but how many have seen horses pass vet checks with flying colors then have a career ending injury months later?

Ditto with horses who have never taken a lame step in their lives and then flunk the vet check terribly with positive flexions or when x-rays are taken. I’ve seen horses with horrible xrays be completely sound and others with very minor xray issues be unrideable.

A good vet will weigh all of the tools available to him, confirmation, muscling (uneven muscling could indicate a long term issue), blemishes on their legs-swelling etc, way of going, x-rays, flexions, age, intended use of the horse and the horse’s history as known (were they showing 3’ hunters at 3 or 4? did they race? have they shown 35 plus horse shows a year in multiple divisions for years?)

By doing all of that you get a complete picture of the horse on that given day. Doesn’t tell you anything about the future but you are always playing the odds game with horses anyway.

So, positive flexions wouldn’t completely deter me. We actually took a gamble on our last horse. She flexed poorly and her xrays were questionable. We knew the horse and that she had a good work ethic and my vet felt we could manage her issues. Her brain and what she could teach my daughter made that risk worthwhile. She was priced accordingly. She stayed sound and never missed a day of work or a show. She is now moved down a division and happily teaching her new kid:) We got very lucky with her.