Doberman

[vtdobes]

@PhoenixFarm;7251703

I’m reading this thread with interest, and would like to ask about the “reputable breeders will crop before they send the puppy”.

The problem is that most reputable breeders choose your puppy for you…you don’t get to choose the one you want. So, at the time the litter is cropped they may not know which puppy is for you so they can’t not crop the whole litter.

The last puppy I got there were 3 boys in the litter and it wasn’t decided who was getting which boy until they were 9 weeks old…that was two weeks after they were cropped.

Plus, the reputable breeders want to make sure ears are cropped properly and have healed and are ready to be posted before sending them off to their new homes.

[MrWinston]

Of course you are right about this. My new puppy came from a highly respected breeder and I didn’t know until 10 days before I got her if I had a puppy or which one it would be. In a litter of 8, only three were bitches.

I need to apologize for forgetting vWD as another essential health test for the Dobe. I think that someone is more likely to be able to get an uncropped puppy from a Euro breeder,

It sure is a wonderful breed. I’ve had eight now, two were rescues. Any way you go, they are amazing dogs. It’s tragic that their life span isn’t long enough.

[PhoenixFarm]

Interesting. I have personally visited every puppy before I took it. Yes, each breeder had already narrowed my choices (you can have one of these two males or this female, for example), and I visited before they were ready to go home or crop. I’ve no issue with breeders narrowing my choices, but I don’t think I’d take one sight unseen.

This is really depressing. I’ve had 4 natural eared Dobermans. It’s heartbreaking to think those days might be over. I love these dog But maybe Ill not be graced with another.

[DoubleClick]

Yep, my boy was cropped at around seven weeks, and I didn’t know which boy pup I was getting until well after he was cropped. I got an emailed picture of him with a post-crop cup on his head and was informed that the light blue boy would be my puppy. My guy came from a very active show breeder, so they needed to evaluate the pups at 8+ weeks to decide which pup was going where. There was one pup in my dog’s litter who was clearly not show quality from an early age. His owners were able to elect that he not be cropped and he went home earlier than the other pups. Breeder let him go about a week earlier because he didn’t need to recover from his cropping. He was 8+ weeks vs. 9+ weeks like the others when he went to his home.

[SquishTheBunny]

[QUOTE=MrWinston;7251015]
The health testing that should be done on Dobes being bred is hips, elbows, cerf eye exam, thyroid, bloodwork for liver and kidney function, echocardiogram and holter monitor. There is no existing screening for Wobbler’s except for veterinary exam to determine if coordination is normal.[/QUOTE]

Of course there is veterinary screening for wobblers. Age related arthritis, disc disease etc. is something any dog can get but cervical abnormalities can be very genetic and easily show up on radiographs or MRI. I would want to ask the breeder if any offspring of either parent were reported to have wobblers. Historical screening is just as important as physical screening for some problems.

[vtdobes]

@MrWinston;7251804

I think that someone is more likely to be able to get an uncropped puppy from a Euro breeder,

Disagree. Both of my dogs (from the same breeder) are of European bloodlines and they are both cropped…and the breeder wouldn’t think of not cropping a litter. I am involved a lot with the UDC and I’d say most of the breeders also involved with that club have “European” lines…and most crop/dock.

You might be better off saying someone is more likely to be able to get an uncropped/undocked puppy directly from Europe.

There are plenty of breeders (and greeders and byb’ers) with American lines that don’t crop/dock.

[Foxtrot_s]

Surprized at how commonplace cropped ears are I US. Come to Canada
where it is not that common.

We had a poorly bred Dobie given to us by a SIL (to protect our kids during the Clifford Olson time). He was unsteady, loyal to a fault, and ended up with wobblers, as Squish said, which while not that common, it will show up in Dobies more often than other breeds.

While our kids were not allowed out ofhis sight, this dog would lip the kids’ friends that came over, chased the horses, despite our attempts using a long line, etc., and was not trustworthy. He would have been put down at 2-1/2 years because of his wobblers, but he got kicked in the chest before we cold bring ourselves to do the deed. Despite this, he was so intelligent, so intuitive, you could just ‘think’ you were going out, and he’d be there waiting.

So, that is the warning story about some Dobies - good luck in getting a good member of what is one of the best breeds.

[superD]

[QUOTE=PhoenixFarm;7251703]
I’m reading this thread with interest, and would like to ask about the “reputable breeders will crop before they send the puppy”. I’ve had many Dobermans, but have been without for 3 years since losing my last one suddenly.

Love the breed. Hate the cropped ears. When I got my first couple, I simply said to the breeder I wanted the ears left alone, tail and dewclaws fine to be done and it was fine. When I went to acquire my last one, I ran into several breeders who refused to leave the ears undone, one even hung up on me. I ended up with a dog I loved, but not quite the quality of my others, because the breeders were so hostile to natural ears. I was floored and confused.

This thread is freaking me out all over again. I was thinking of starting to look for a puppy next year, but I refuse to have a cropped dog, and I want to work with good breeders.

Am I doomed?[/QUOTE]

No. It took some time to sort through but I found an excellent breeder that gave me the option with the ears. I’m now on my 3rd dog from her.

BTW she often owns both parents. Really no reason not to. She is NOT a " back yard breeder " I would and have told many people to buy from her.

Also I got to pick out each of my 3 dogs at around 3. Ish weeks old. I got pictures weekly and picked them up at around 8 weeks old. I live far away so I didn’t visit them often but she welcomes people to drop by and hang with their puppy. Also meet the parents. All of her dogs are very healthy and live long and happy lives.

[WinsomeTK]

I love Dobies. Health issues as mentioned all over this thread, and sometimes you get a kooky/spooky one but the normal ones… Boy do I love them.

Good luck on either finding an incredible rescue or a good breeder that has everything that fits.

I also agree on Canada possibly doing less ear cropping - I’ve only ever seen one with a full tail though.

[Foxtrot_s]

I saw a Dobie with a long tail in Europe - boy, it looks odd and takes getting used to. The dogs without cropped ears or tails look almost lab-like, and do not look sharp or protective at all.

Boxers or Dobies wold not get very far at the top dog shows without crops.

[S1969]

[QUOTE=superD;7254567]
No. It took some time to sort through but I found an excellent breeder that gave me the option with the ears. I’m now on my 3rd dog from her.

BTW she often owns both parents. Really no reason not to. She is NOT a " back yard breeder " I would and have told many people to buy from her.[/QUOTE]

I have to ask - are they the same parents of all three puppies?

Actually I have no problem with “backyard breeders” that are good breeders; some of the best breeders breed as a small-time hobby out of their own homes.

[PhoenixFarm]

I’m fine with tails and dew claws being done. It’s just a the ear crop I’m not ok with. Super D I’d love a pm with the name of your breeder. I’ve known two dobies whose tails were left–and both ended up with partial amputations as adults when they wagged in to something bad. Much woes to amputate as adults, then dock as pups.

Thanks all.

[KPF]

We have one and he’s SUCH a good dog. DH has had several in the past, some good, some neurotic. Our current guy is amazing. He was supposed to be DH’s dog but chose me as his “mistress”. We adopted him at age 3 from his breeder, who was contacted when his former owner met hard times and couldn’t keep him. He is actually a very well bred dog, his sire was a therapy dog as well as a show dog, and the breeder had his mom her whole life (she only bred a few litters). It was a little intimidating because we met the former owner in a parking lot, he introduced us and handed him off to us for a 1.5 hour drive home. We were like, we have this huge dobe in the car that we don’t really know… hmmm. He’s 5 1/2 now and it’s like he’s lived with us forever. He loves living on our farm and is content to let our little beagle girl rule the roost. He’s the most loyal dog I’ve ever had, and is just a happy, sweet guy. I’ll be heartbroken when his time comes. And this is coming from someone who didn’t really want another dobe since DH’s last one was a neurotic grumpy mess!

I will say, if you haven’t had a dobe before, be prepared to be “bossier” than you may normally be with other breeds. They often have domineering personalities and need clear boundaries and discipline. They definitely thrive on structure, and are very much a “one person” dog. They will love the other family members but really worship one “master” IME.

Best of luck, you’ll love it if you get a good one.

[WindyIsles]

[QUOTE=superD;7254567]
No. It took some time to sort through but I found an excellent breeder that gave me the option with the ears. I’m now on my 3rd dog from her.

BTW she often owns both parents. Really no reason not to. She is NOT a " back yard breeder " I would and have told many people to buy from her.

Also I got to pick out each of my 3 dogs at around 3. Ish weeks old. I got pictures weekly and picked them up at around 8 weeks old. I live far away so I didn’t visit them often but she welcomes people to drop by and hang with their puppy. Also meet the parents. All of her dogs are very healthy and live long and happy lives.[/QUOTE]

Interesting that your breeder let you pick the puppy.

Most reputable breeders - across all breeds - do not let the prospective owner pick their puppy. The breeder picks the puppy based on what you want from a dog and matches the puppy to the new owner not the other way around.

Sorry but to me from the ‘option with ears’ to the ‘both parents on premises’ to ‘letting you pick a puppy’ would raise red flags on the breeder actually being reputable since one of these would be a rarity with a reputable breeder - but to have all three would be very, very hard to believe that the breeder is reputable.

[dacasodivine]

I would buy from a good “backyard breeder” over what a lot consider reputable any day. I’m looking for a pet that will be with me for a lot of years. I want to choose the puppy that is right for me not have a breeder pick one and tell me I’m lucky they are letting me buy one at great cost often enough with limited registration and a contract that makes adopting a baby seem easy.

[vtdobes]

@WindyIsles;7256254

Interesting that your breeder let you pick the puppy.

Most reputable breeders - across all breeds - do not let the prospective owner pick their puppy. The breeder picks the puppy based on what you want from a dog and matches the puppy to the new owner not the other way around.

This is what I cannot understand! How can you possibly pick the right puppy for you just from photos? And at 3 weeks? Or even meeting the litter just once at say 6 weeks? It’s like walking by the pet store window and saying “I’ll take that one”.
Compared to the breeder who KNOWS the dam and lives with the puppies 24/7! THEY are the ones who know these puppies the best AND should know you well enough to determine a good match.

As I said before both of my current dogs came from the same breeder. She picked which puppy was to be mine at around 8 weeks of age. I know most of the siblings from both litters and work closely with them at our club events. She was right on the money with picking the right pup for each person…I can’t imagine having any of the other dogs as my own (not that they aren’t great individuals!).

[walkinthewalk]

[QUOTE=ThistleDewDressage;7250070]
Don’t forget about Dobbi Rescues. There are lots of nice dobermans that are looking for the kind of home you can provide. Good luck.[/QUOTE]

Yes! PLEASE don’t forget about them:)

I haven’t had a Doberman since my first one passed in the late 70’s. He was red, a direct descendant of one of the Seven Sires, and a strong-boned fella. He lived in the house but was great on the farm. Pity the Fool that laid a hand on my young son - they were inseparable.

After we lost him to illness, I couldn’t find any quality Dobes in my area and those darn Rottenweilers stole my heart for many years to come.

I still have a Dobe/Rott mix that I rescued 9 years ago, so starved the spiders were building nests on her walking skeleton that was full of sarcoptic mange. The vet wanted to put her to sleep but her eyes were asking for a chance. She’s close to 12 by now and owns one of the rocking chairs in the living room:)

So I really second and third considering at least looking into the Doberman rescue sites:)

[Foxtrot_s]

One thing I fid annoying is breeder’s attitudes to the person buying the puppy, the rules and the superiority…I’d prefer a back yard breeder (since I am one)
where finding the right home is the most important aspect, not protecting their turf about which dog you can breed, or not, or spay, or not, etc. Nothing wrong with some backyard breeders, and it should not be a disparaging term.

[SteppinEasy]

About the ear cropping, I thought altering animals for the sake of appearance was illegal in California? I’ve always heard that tail altering on horses is illegal to perform in that state, as are other “elective” surgeries designed to conform to breed or show standards, and the cropping of any dog’s ears was always cited as an example. I’ve never actually done the research myself, having had no need or interest (I personally would never have anything altered unless it was because of a deformity or other type of risk to an animal’s life), but I’ve heard this asserted by horse and dog people out of CA so many times I just assumed it was a widely known fact. Does anyone know?

[DoubleClick]

With the health problems that now exist in many purebred breeds and the number of dogs ending up homeless, there is just no question when it comes to reputable breeder vs. backyard breeder. Thankfully, I really do think that the word is getting out to more and more prospective dog owners about the importance of purchasing from a reputable breeder. I am a reputable breeder, and when I breed, which is infrequent, I am looking to place my puppies in their FOREVER homes. Thus, yes you will interviewed and found worthy of having one of my puppies, and I see zero fault in that. Our puppies are an extension of our family - they are not merchandise. We love, treasure, and worry about them from the moment they are conceived through the end of their lives. Yes, there will be a contract and limited registration, and most REPUTABLE and trustworthy prospective owners have zero problem with that because they are looking for a well-bred companion who has a breeder that will support them for the life of that dog and beyond. I don’t think I’m enforcing ridiculous rules and exercising my “superiority” over anybody. I chose to bring lives into the world, and as the person who made the choice as to their existence, it is my basic responsibility to ensure that I stack the deck in their favor when it comes to their genetics, health, social preparedness, and future homes. I’m sorry that you see my dedication to my dogs, my breed and its history, and my puppy owners as controlling and egotistical.