Does anyone like CWD anymore?

[Peregrine21]

Hey! Thanks for the reply.

I ended up doing the same thing and pulled the plug on the custom.

I could not justify paying the outrageous price for something that I had zero chance to try before committing to. If I had committed to the custom and decided to return it, they would keep $3K re-stocking fee, which is a lot of money to just throw away. I couldn’t do it.

The rep was extremely accommodating of this and has set out on the hunt to find me a used CWD. She said it may be tough to find something that fits me and my horse so we have to wait and see. And if we can’t find anything they will refund me.

Right now she only had a classic in my seat and flap size (and in my new budget). It isn’t the same panels as what I was getting on the custom (the custom was getting the new panels they have designed - whatever those are).

I am not thrilled it is a classic as I thought the carbon fiber tree was better and what my horse preferred but at this point, but we have to try.

I am hesitant to find something on my own because I have not been able to find something with a close panel configuration to the custom, and secondly, CWD gives me 15 days to try it which I prefer to the 7 or 5 most other places offer.

We shall see. I feel better about trying to find used and will update this post once we find a solution.

[vxf111]

Refund you what? I thought you cancelled your order?

[Peregrine21]

Refund me for the saddle I am taking out on trial. You have to pay in order for them to send you the saddle to trial. It is like this with private sellers as well.

The rep does not have this one in her possession, they are shipping it to us from the US. If I don’t like the saddle, we can continue to trial other used ones or if CWD is not the right fit they refund me the entire amount.

I did not pay for the full custom saddle - only gave a deposit.

[vxf111]

Ah, got it. I thought they were hanging on to some portion of the deposit from your original (now cancelled) order.

[IPEsq]

I’m always keeping an eye on the used saddle market these days for my growing youngster who is still too young to get his own “custom” saddle. If you want, you can PM me the configuration you need and I’ll keep it on my radar.

If you find one that is your size and not quite the same for the horse, you can get the panels modified for in the range of $500. You may still come out way ahead going used. They do have some new panel options according to my rep who I just contacted about a new bridle. But if your horse likes your trainer’s saddle, unless it’s brand new, you can get the same thing going used or modifying used.

And I think I said up thread that the pre-2018 panels are different and I (along with some saddle fitter friends) like them better. If they are in good shape and haven’t been modified too much already, that’s a good bang for buck type to look for with the 2Gs models.

[knic]

What is different about the new panels? Just curious.

[Such_Life]

Oh no! I just pulled the trigger on a new Butet! I hope I don’t run into a lot of issues! All the horror stories from saddles always makes me want to run and hid in a hole!
I tried a demo CWD and it didn’t fit my horse worth anything and she told me she didn’t like it but I do know a lot of people that love them! Hope you find what you need for you horse

[Night_Flight]

@mh97

Except for maybe Delgrange, those can be tricky to find used. They are not mass produced like most of the other French brands, but that’s part of what makes them special. Super nice saddles, I’ve been looking for a few months now for one used, no luck.

Have you tried looking in Canada? I see them posted daily in some of the Quebec Facebook tack groups.

[Peregrine21]

Me too! It is so divisive out there with saddles these days. I rode in a Butet most of my life on multiple horses and always loved those saddles. I have tried to stop reading too much online because there are so many different experiences.

I think it all depends on your rep! I won’t be giving up my Butet bridle, breastplate or girth I have of theirs - their stuff is beautiful and well made. If it wasn’t for our rep, I probably would have tried to work with them on modifying the saddle. I think my rep had zero clue about horses, he was just a “good” salesperson.

Fingers crossed for you!

[Peregrine21]

I am not sure. I was just told we’d be getting the new panels but not what that meant. In fairness I didn’t ask either which was silly of me.

[Such_Life]

Im pretty sure we have the same rep

[Peregrine21]

Got it!

Try the saddle and see how your horse goes in it the first couple of days. Others have used him without issues so it could have been a bit of bad luck on my end with me and my horse.

Does your whole barn ride in Butet?

If you or your horse isn’t happy just tell him right away. If you have issues you can request a manager (although it is his wife, but she is extremely knowledgeable and knows what she is doing).

Keep us updated!

[Such_Life]

Thanks for the information! I knew about the manager thing. I hope that it all works out and I don’t have to go down the road.

My barn doesn’t ride in Butets, I just really like them.
I did trying a pile of other saddles before I decided to go with another Butet. I just hope it’s not the wrong decision

[ivy62]

If you want a custom saddle get one, really. CWD is customized not custom. The closest thing to custom saddles are going to be Stackhouse. They measure you and your horse and you can design it pretty much any way you want it. They have various trees to start with and go from there. By the time you add everything to your CWD it will be more expensive then the Stackhouse. Ask Denny E. He loves them too
Good luck

[Peregrine21]

Thank you for this! I appreciate it!

At the moment I have decided to try and find a used saddle. I couldn’t justify the price tag of the custom saddle with zero guarantees of a perfect fit. And had read to many horror stories online to feel 100% confident it was going to work out for me when it hadn’t for so many others. Plus my horse is still building his topline and I don’t want to have to re-panel in a year from now. Maybe in the future.

If I don’t find a used one I will explore Stackhouse. Thanks for the suggestion!

[Bogie]

@Peregrine21

At the moment I have decided to try and find a used saddle.

Smart. Not only that, you can ride in the used saddle and make sure it fits you and your horse. I can’t even count the number of people I know who loved the demo saddle and found their “custom” saddle didn’t fit. Plus, if you buy used, depreciation has already happened and you are more likely to be able to get your money out if you resell.

[hj.eq.xc]

I will just pray that it fits and is perfect because if you try to get your money back, good luck.

A friend at my barn ordered a new saddle and it was horrid. She had a 2020 model and loved it. The 2022 model was terrible. Not at all a fit and the horse was NOT happy in it either. They sent theirs back as well and fought with LIM for the refund as it was all still under warranty.

I ordered a new CWD back in Sept. 2022. I had been riding in my trainers CWD (since selling my new voltaire that I bought for my “hard to fit horse” in March 2022. it was not made correctly either and my horse wouldn’t canter in it, just buck, his go to when uncomfortable or in pain but the voltaire rep was awesome, no complaints there and was upfront and honest that the saddle wouldn’t fit my horse because the tree was not correct for him) and it seemed to work but we were also dealing with back soreness that I was told the cause of was not my trainers saddle but that’s another story. After receiving my “custom” saddle, I rode in it for less than a week. My horse would not canter, just buck and came up VERY backsore. The least of the problems was the flap on the saddle was nowhere near fitting my leg despite the “custom” order. Sent the saddle back that week. Spent from beginning of December to last week arguing with CWD/LIM about getting my money back. Thankfully they did actually waive the $3000 restocking fee (benefits of having an amazing trainer) so I only had to pay for the shipping cost of the saddle in the end and I know I came out luckier than most. After a month off and strengthening and body work for my horse I was cleared to start riding again whenever I found saddle that fit. I eventually found a second hand Stubben and have not looked back. I am privileged enough to say I have the money for a custom saddle but I was not going to do that nightmare for a third time. Best money I ever spent on tack and my horse couldn’t be happier and there is not a hint of any back soreness anymore and he moves forward and more relaxed than he has ever been and I have only ridden him in Devocoux, Antares, Voltaire, Butet, and CWD in the 18 months I have owned him. I thought French brands were the best quality so I went that route in the second hand world but was forced into custom because nothing fit. I also had been dealing with mystery lameness where he wasn’t quite right but nothing was ever found by vets either. That has now gone away with my Stubben though and he is sound and barefoot and thriving. I bought a saddle whose TREE fit my horse first and foremost and the rest was a breeze. No more chronic saddle sliding, no bucking, and no soreness. Again I hope everything works out for you.

CWD isn’t going to fit every horse because they only slap one tree shape/width in all their saddles, like many/all of the French LIM brands (Devocoux, Butet, CWD) a MW tree and paneled up or down from there to get a “custom” saddle. That is why some people swear by them and they will fit their horses just fine. Also, rep quality matters. A good saddle can be incorrectly assessed by an incompetent fitter a likewise a bad saddle can be given the OK. If the independent fitter was trying to sell you that hard on a brand, they are a rep more than a fitter and I would get another opinion if possible. Remember the vast majority of pros get saddles that are comfy for them primarily because they spend so much time in the saddle and on a wide variety of horses. The brands sell the idea that if the rider is comfy then the horse must be too which obviously isn’t always true. These brands know this, so they give their sponsored riders great deals, a new saddle every two years, and amazing customer service and then ignore the average amateur that is the backbone of the equestrian world and changes them over 4x the amount the pro would pay. Pro’s don’t pay the vet bills on horses they ride if they don’t own them. Most of the top competitors don’t own the horses they ride so if they go sore they can ignore it and put a bigger half pad on or just plop the saddle on another horse while the other one is sent to fancy expensive rehab on the owners dollar. Saddles are far too individual a thing to go by what pros use and what is currently popular. CWD has been super popular. I think now Voltaire is getting ahead of it a bit. Both saddles have the capacity of fitting some horses really really well but they won’t fit a lot because of they’re limited trees.

You don’t need to give up on the jumpers or riding, you can find a saddle that fits. Start by finding out what tree shape (ie, does he have a flat back and high wither, or a curvy back, tree point length etc), width, material (wood, carbon fiber, polymer, etc), and size (length) your horse needs based on his anatomy the rest is simple for finding a flap for your leg and appropriate flocking or foam panels especially if going custom. I am happy to share some more info if you are interested in more anatomy based fitting. Best of luck though, I hope it does work for you and your horse!!

[FrittSkritt]

Is CWD still owned by Devoucoux? I’ve never heard great things about either saddlery.

Unfortunately it seems to be hit or miss with reps with many brands, not just the French ones. Someone I knew became a “certified” Stubborn fitter/rep depsite having zero saddle fitting experience - pretty sure they just sent her to a two day course and signed her off. Same thing with Voltaire - someone’s parent at our barn suddenly became a rep pretty much overnight despite not having ever ridden a horse.

(One of the many reasons I like County is that all their fitters are all MSA certified, but I know the brand isn’t for everyone.)

[Peregrine21]

Hi there,

Thank you for your detailed message! I appreciate it!

I should update my original post but I did end up canceling my custom order. The rep is now working with me to find a used CWD. I have tried one so far and it was not a fit for me flap-wise. Seemed ok on my horse but I didn’t ride very long because my leg was not stable in that flap. Another one is coming… so we will see.

If I am not mistaken Stubben comes in wool only? I also found their saddles very heavy but that was when I rode in one, gosh, over 10 years ago now, I am sure they aren’t like that anymore! I am not 100% confident in wool-flocked saddles in my area, but understand the benefits. There are few saddle fitters where I am and they are often months out from giving you an appointment - it isn’t realistic to wait that long. I have also heard a few horror stories about saddles getting incorrectly flocked which concerns me too.

We don’t have many reps outside of the French brands where I am, unfortunately. I have been reading on many different brands and it sounds like a good rep is the key to finding the right fit. For example, I read on this forum that a Stubben rep said some bridging was ok which seems incorrect.

I may explore Stubben if this doesn’t work out. Or Amerigo?

I think my boy likes the carbon fiber tree the most. That’s what it seems like.

I know the pros get given saddles and are paid a lot to ride in them but I find it a bit hard to believe people like Kent Farrington, Mclain Ward, Harry Smolders, Kevin Stout, Scott Brash, and the others that ride for them don’t care about their horses (with the exception of maybe Oliver Philippaerts) and would risk using a saddle that would interfere with their performance. I am not saying you are wrong, it just seems like they would want their top horses to go their best. They do use CWD saddles on multiple different horses, many of which are at the top level. If they are sore or unhappy they won’t perform at their best I would think. And aside from maybe Kent those riders ride a wide variety of horses. But of course, I don’t know 100%.

The independent saddle fitter that came out took tracings of my horse and said he was a narrow-med tree but once his top line is built up could fit med-wide. This is why she said I would need to buy two custom saddles (one now, one a year from now). She didn’t discuss tree angle though but I know what you are talking about! She seemed more concerned with fitting me than my horse at that time. I could send you a picture of the tracings but it wouldn’t be true to size.

I am going to give this next used CWD a try and then may have to explore other options! I will keep this thread updated.

Fingers crossed!

Edit to add: The person that told me re. the two saddles was the independant fitter, not CWD rep.

[Peregrine21]

CWD is owned by LIM. LIM also owns Decoucoux as well as a few other brands.

I 100% agree with your comment on reps. This is what seems like will make or break the saddle fit. None of the brands seem to give their reps in-depth training. It seems they either need a background in horse anatomy to be amazing fitters or they rely solely on the basic training given by the brand.